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RTS

Fuel Pump Squealing

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RTS

A couple weeks ago, I mentioned the fuel pump making a squealing sound to my dealer. They cleaned the "screen" in the fuel pump (whatever that is) and the problem seemed to subside for a while, but now it's coming back. It may be my imagination, but I feel like I'm losing a little power in the holeshot also. (I'm also replacing the spark plugs this weekend)

I was wondering if the fuel filter could be causing this (by starving the pump for gas) and I have a filter on the way to be replaced this weekend. The engine will turn full RPM, but the squealing sound is audible, even with the engine cover closed.

What else could this be? Is the pump on its way out? It's my understanding the engines won't run without the pump, and I don't want to get stranded on the lake.

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whiteVLX

It ain't the fule filter, I can guarantee that. I replaced mine and it sounds the same before as it did after. Without a doubt your pump is on it's way out. BTW mine is squealing as well. My dealer has told me Malibu won't warranty the pump until it fails, so I'm just planning on boating while other friends are out on the lake until I burn it up.

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maliboo

rts - It could be your filters, remember you have 2 of them, one near the fuel tank and another at the pump. If they cleaned the pump screen out and it went away that tells me that the pump is being starved for fuel by junk in the lines or filters again. Also, the pump screen is probably full of stuff again. What burns fuel pumps out is when you starve them for fuel they get hot and burn the electric motor up.

What you are hearing when it squeals is the pump is hot and all the tolerances inside the pump are much tighter then they should be. Replace both filters and clean the screen out and if you did not run it too long you should be fine. Hopefully you don't have a bunch of crap in your tank.

Dwayne

Edited by maliboo

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RTS

Thanks for the info...Does anyone have the "basic" procedures for cleaning the screen on the pump out. I'd like to do that also this weekend when I change the filter(s). I don't recall seeing one in the engine compartment, just the one in the trunk on top of the tank. Should it be located near the pump? The dealer is sending me "both" filters, so hopefully I'll see it.

As far as the screen on the pump, where is it? Is is removable, in that you take it out of the pump, clean it up, put it back? Is this something better left to the dealer (I'd rate myself 4 out of 5 hammers on the do-it-yourself scale)

Anyone who has done this themselves and can give me some direction, I'd appreciate it.

Also, are those in-line filters any good, or would I be better served by getting one of those spin on types installed?

BTW, I'm dealing with an '02 Monsoon (325 HP)

Thanks...

Edit: The dealer just called back and said I only have one filter (the one on top of the tank). I guess that's normal for my boat.

Edited by rts

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whiteVLX
rts - It could be your filters, remember you have 2 of them, one near the fuel tank and another at the pump.

Don't start the two fuel filter thread again....:)

FTR not all monsoons came with the second fuel filter, mine certainly does not. I don't even recall on the previous threads if we truly determined if it was Gen 1, 2 or 3 related or Merced/Louden related.

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RTS
rts - It could be your filters, remember you have 2 of them, one near the fuel tank and another at the pump.

Don't start the two fuel filter thread again....:)

FTR not all monsoons came with the second fuel filter, mine certainly does not. I don't even recall on the previous threads if we truly determined if it was Gen 1, 2 or 3 related or Merced/Louden related.

I must have missed that one...I don't even have a fuel shutoff valve on my boat. My dealer is going to call Indmar and see if it will be OK to install the second filter near the fuel pump, and if it's OK, I'm going to install the second filter myself. I don't see how it can hurt.

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maliboo

rts - you should have a standard inline filter near the tank and a high pressure filter immediately after the pump. It's a screw on filter that goes from the pump to a hard line that runs to the fuel rails. Your dealer is smoking crack! The screen is on the inlet side of the pump and is just inside near the opening. I dont think it comes out, but you can use an air hose to blow it out. Just be careful and wrap a rag around the pump and air hose then blow in there. The rag should keep all the gas from blowing around. Have lots of rags handy.

Dwayne

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Waterbuggy

Are you sure about the fuel shut off valve? It is located in the SLXI trunk behind a cutout in the vertical carpeted panel that has a black vinyl liner. Can't imagine the dealer cleaning the pump screen (a very fine mesh screen on the intake side of the pump) and not CHANGING the inline filter from the tank. The screen may be the tank pickup screen which is accessed by removing the panel and pickup fitting. The second filter is connected on the pressure side of the fuel pump with flared fittings, so to "add" one you will need to make up or get a hose to go from the pump to the filter. The initial inline filter is a slip on fitting secured with hose clamps usually at the tank pickup point. There is no reason it cannot be mounted closer to fuel pump other than finding a safe place to secure away from heat or moving objects. After market spin-on water separating filters are not recommended for the fuel injected Indmars in part due to limited pull from the fuel pump. If you ever run out of gas, be careful to prime the line up to the pump or you may damage to pump trying to start a prime. Interestingly Mercruiser multiport fuel injected engines (basically a Monsoon) use a spin on water separating filter but a different fuel pump system. So maybe it's just myth, but Indmar says no spin on water separating filters.

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maliboo

Some boats did not have a fuel shut off, instead they had an anti-siphon valve that looks just like a screw in barbed fitting at the top of your tank. Inside this fitting is a check valve that is supposed to keep gas from free flowing out.

rts - there is also a sock on the end of the pickup tube that is in your tank. If that has a bunch of crap in it, it will cause problems.

I still believe that you have a high pressure filter immediately after the pump.

If I could find a picture of a Monsoon any Monsoon I could easily show it to you.

Dwayne

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RTS
rts - there is also a sock on the end of the pickup tube that is in your tank.  If that has a bunch of crap in it, it will cause problems.

Dwayne

Maybe I'll take a look at that this weekend, too. Any advice on how to get to it (i.e. will I need a new gasket or something)?? Sorry about some of these questions, but I don't keep my boat at home, so I can't run out and look things over.

When I go to clean out the pump screen, should I just remove the whole pump to get it to a workbench and compressed air? Would that just mean one more fuel line to disconnect, disconnect electrical, and remove the pump from the engine?

Also, when reinstalliing fuel lines, is standard teflon tape ok for the connections, or is there something "special" I should use?

Thanks for all your help.

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RTS
Interestingly Mercruiser  multiport fuel injected engines (basically a Monsoon) use a spin on water separating filter but a different fuel pump system. So maybe it's just myth, but Indmar says no spin on water separating filters.

Good advice...Thank You. I'll stick to the standard in-line ones Malibu uses. (But it shouldn't hurt anything to go from one to two, should it???

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maliboo

rts - If you are comfortable with taking the entire pump off that would be much better. Then you can see the screen and make sure it is clean. The only electrical is one plug that snaps off. You will need 2 wenches to get the HP filter and the pump off. I think one is a 3/4 and the other is a 5/8. The bottom of the pump is a slip on with hose clamp. Make sure you remove the high pressure filter (you have to have one) first or you will dump gas everywhere.

You might have to turn you key on and off quite a few times to get the pump fully primed. You can hear when it primes, it will squeal and then shut off. Keep turning the key on and off until in does not squeal at all and just runs for 2 seconds then shuts off.

I think you have to take the floor of your trunk out to get to the pickup tube. No need to get any gaskets for the pick up tube, just wipe off the old rubber one and reuse it. Somebody with an SLXi will be able to tell you better. I know its not that hard.

Good luck and have fun.

Dwayne

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maliboo

No teflon! no sealant is needed they are HP flanged fittings.

Dwayne

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whiteVLX
I still believe that you have a high pressure filter immediately after the pump.

If I could find a picture of a Monsoon any Monsoon I could easily show it to you.

Dwayne

Did some digging back on WSR and came up with this post from Indmar. Hope this helps clarify things.

Hi,

I have a 2001 Sunsetter LXi w/ Monsoon. (production April, 2001). I have a friend who has the same model year boat & engine that was built in August 2000. My friend's boat has 2 fuel filters- one near the tank and another near the fuel pump. My boat only has the one filter back near the tank. The fuel lines running from the pump to the injector rails are different on our boats.

Is there a reason why one boat would have 2 fuel filters and the other, seemingly identical boat, only has 1 fuel filter? Is it possible, or practical to add the second fuel filter?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this matter.

Thanks,

John

There was a running change that eliminated the fuel filter that was between the fuel pump and fuel rail. That filter was not really necessary since the boat had a filter and the fuel pump itself has a screen that was actually finer that the fuel filter on the outlet side of the pump. You could add the filter but it probably wouldn’t do anything for you. We have been running all of our engines for several years without this filter and have had no difficulties.

Larry Engelbert

Director of Customer Service – Indmar

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jklein

I had the same problem several years ago and it was NOT the pump.

Replace both the cannister filter near the engine and the one by the gas tank (in-line mini filter) and give it a go. The fuel pump is being starved for fuel.

I made a 300 dollar mistake... hope you don't make the same one.

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RTS

Thanks Guys for all the information. Here's my plan of attack for the weekend:

Make a "plan B" appointment with my dealer for about 11:00 on Saturday. This should give me time to determine if I've messed things up doing this myself, and if I have, get it to the dealer for repair by Memorial Day weekend.

Change out fuel filter in rear trunk. While I'm there, I will pull the pickup tube from the tank and inspect/clean if necessary.

Remove soft fuel line from pump while it's on the boat. With an inspection mirror, look for the screen. See if it's full of junk, and blow it out with compressed air.

Put everything back together and hope I didn't mess anything up. Anything I'm overlooking???

Since I've now lost confidence in this fuel pump, and in light of the fact this boat will not run should the pump fail, and since Indmar won't replace it until it fails, I'm considering purchasing a fuel pump to keep on the boat as a spare. Skidim quoted around $270.00. Can these pumps be purchased used or rebuilt, as I would only need something to get me back to the dock and basically just make me feel better having it on the boat.

Thanks again for all the replies and information

Edited by rts

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whiteVLX
and since Indmar won't replace it until it fails

I don't know this for a fact, just what my dealer told me. You might want to check with your dealer first before you spend the bucks.

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Sunsetter95
Thanks Guys for all the information.  Here's my plan of attack for the weekend:

Since I've now lost confidence in this fuel pump, and in light of the fact this boat will not run should the pump fail, and since Indmar won't replace it until it fails, I'm considering purchasing a fuel pump to keep on the boat as a spare.  Skidim quoted around $270.00.  Can these pumps be purchased used or rebuilt, as I would only need something to get me back to the dock and basically just make me feel better having it on the boat.

Thanks again for all the replies and information

Check with NAPA and see if they can get one at a better price.

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SmoothWaterMan

99% chance the cause of the squeal in the beginning was a fuel blockage, or air entering the system. This would be caused 99% of the time by a clogged fuel filter.

On the top of your fuel tank (within 6-8" of your outlet usually) of your 2001 Monsoon powered SLXi is an inline fuel filter. Wix 33033 or a NAPA 3033, it's the same filter, made by Wix. This should be changed annually, if not twice a year. (It MUST be changed at the 10 hour breakin point)

This will starve the engine for fuel, cause the pump to whine, and given enough time cause the pump to fail due to fuel starvation (which also lubes the pump).

After changing the filter, if you still have a whine, check fuel pressure first. If pressure is low, potential is for a bad pickup line (or crimp) in the tank, leaking hose clamp enroute, or bad pump.

Peter.

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RTS

Guys,

If a clogged filter is causing the whine, would it still be possible to get full RPM out of the engine???

Thanks

rts

Edited by rts

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RTS
Wix 33033 or a NAPA 3033, it's the same filter, made by Wix.  This should be changed annually, if not twice a year.  (It MUST be changed at the 10 hour breakin point)

Peter.

Uh Oh, the dealer sent me a NAPA Gold 3299 Filter...Is that O.K.???

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maliboo

rts - You might be able to get full RPM with a clogged filter, you probably just can't get there as fast. I would imagine that the NAPA gold filter is just fine. Make sure that you get the flow the right direction.

The problem with checking the fuel pressure is that it's not very easy to do, you really need the right equipment. If you have a buddy with the fuel pressure gauge it would be nice.

If you buy a spare pump can you return it if its not needed? If you don't locate the root problem you will just burn up another one.

I am still surprised that you don't have a high pressure filter. Even my 93' PS190 had one right after the pump. I really don't think it matters if you don't, I just have never seen a Monsoon without one. Makes maintenance much easier, the HP filter is a PITA to change.

Dwayne

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RTS

Problem found.

After changing the filter, inspecting fuel pickup line, and then removing old pump, I found an apprx. 1/8" chunk of fuel hose in the screen for the pump. I'm sure that was the problem. It blocked maybe 50% of the screen Yahoo.gifYahoo.gif

This makes the case for a filter, even an in-line one, right before the pump. This filter would have caught this debris prior to the screen. I will be installing one today.

The dealer says he'll take back the pump I bought today (Gave me a pretty good deal to...Almost to skidims prices and I was able to pick it right up)

However, upon inspection of the old pump, I noticed the top part with the elec. connections will "rotate" in the case of the pump maybe 3-4 degrees. The brand new pump I have is solid.

I'm thinking of installing the new pump and keeping the old as a spare. Pretty expensive spare part, I know, but it is critical, and now I am confident I could change it on the water if needed...

Thanks for all your help Maliboo and everyone else, and I just double checked for you and there is no filter after the pump, just a straight shot from the pump to the rail...

Edited by rts

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maliboo

Nice work rts - I am not sure if that top cap rotating is a big deal. I am also not sure if there are fastners that you could tighten to stop this, I am just not getting a clear mental picture of that area on the pump. Spare fuel pumps are always nice to have around. It could well save a vacation.

Did your old pump quite squealing?

Dwayne

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