Anyone made the move to Group 24 Lithium Batteries?

[EchelonMike]

Curious if anyone has made the move to something like the Dakota Group 24 lithium battery(ies) for their start/house battery.  It seems that the newer boats are very sensitive to battery voltage being low and the lithium versions hold a charge longer than lead/acid, don't have voltage drop as they discharge, last 5x as long , weigh half as much, etc.  Not giving them away at $399 each for a Group24 version including a lithium charger (vs around $150 for an Interstate lead/acid) but over the long haul it seems like it's worth it?

      -- Mike

 

 

[justgary]

I would check with them to see if the BMS inside the battery can handle cranking current for a V8 starter.

You may also need to change your alternator regulator to provide a higher charge voltage for LFP chemistry.

Contrary to their claim, you don't need to "top up" LFP batteries after each use, and storing them at 100% state of charge is harder on them than a much lower SOC.  Charge before use is great for these, then let them sit after use.

[oldjeep]

I run them in my motorcycles.  Much higher ccv than lead acid batteries and the lithiums are smaller and a lot lighter.  Stock automotive type charging should be fine.

That being said, a quality automotive liPo battery is closer to $ 1000, not sure what you get for $400

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-24-rs/

Edited January 20 by oldjeep

[EchelonMike]

@oldjeep Good call out - looks like there are different types.  If you need high current/amp for a starter battery, vs a "house" battery, they cost more.  Looks like the starter version is about $200 more ($599) for 1000 cca.  

[oldjeep]

17 minutes ago, EchelonMike said:

@oldjeep Good call out - looks like there are different types.  If you need high current/amp for a starter battery, vs a "house" battery, they cost more.  Looks like the starter version is about $200 more ($599) for 1000 cca.  

Just make sure that the brand you pick gets decent reviews and note what kind of lithium battery it is .  LiFePo vs ?????

The fun part with lithium batteries is that a badly built one can be a fire bomb.

For me, I wouldn't bother with them in a boat. (Or car)

Edited January 21 by oldjeep

[minnmarker]

10 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

For me, I wouldn't bother with them in a boat. (Or car)

I wouldn't consider them until after you start seeing them in high end spots cars.  Weight performance safety.

Until then definitely not worth it.

[oldjeep]

7 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

I wouldn't consider them until after you start seeing them in high end spots cars.  Weight performance safety.

Until then definitely not worth it.

I wouldn't bother with them because regular batteries work/last just fine.  The reason I run them in the bikes is that they have small car sized engines and the extra CCA is a huge plus in them.  So it is worth the 3x price premium that I pay for them.

[Slayer]

22 hours ago, EchelonMike said:

Curious if anyone has made the move to something like the Dakota Group 24 lithium battery(ies) for their start/house battery.  It seems that the newer boats are very sensitive to battery voltage being low and the lithium versions hold a charge longer than lead/acid, don't have voltage drop as they discharge, last 5x as long , weigh half as much, etc.  Not giving them away at $399 each for a Group24 version including a lithium charger (vs around $150 for an Interstate lead/acid) but over the long haul it seems like it's worth it?

      -- Mike

 

 

I'm pretty sure @IXFE has been putting group 34 AGM in all his boats for the last few years with great success.  It's a spring item for me this year. 

[Stevo]

Group 31 AGM is what’s in my 22- 25LSV. love them.

[justgary]

23 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

The fun part with lithium batteries is that a badly built one can be a fire bomb.

LiFePO4 (LFP) is considered safe under most circumstances.  I would not use any other lithium technology in a boat.  

The primary thing to look for in a LFP battery is the maximum current the internal circuit (Battery Management System) can provide without shutting down.  The cheap batteries tend to have cheap BMSs with poor ratings. 

LFP does have different charging needs than lead-acid, and while a standard automotive charger seems to work fine, it is possible to damage LFP with the wrong voltage.

[oldjeep]

17 minutes ago, justgary said:

LiFePO4 (LFP) is considered safe under most circumstances.  I would not use any other lithium technology in a boat.  

The primary thing to look for in a LFP battery is the maximum current the internal circuit (Battery Management System) can provide without shutting down.  The cheap batteries tend to have cheap BMSs with poor ratings. 

LFP does have different charging needs than lead-acid, and while a standard automotive charger seems to work fine, it is possible to damage LFP with the wrong voltage.

The main thing with chargers is that you cannot use one that has a desulphation cycle.  That is really bad for LiFePo 4 batteries.  Been running them in the bikes for 6 years or so.  Mine have all been Shorai brand.

[justgary]

The real difference is that lead acid wants to be float charged when it is full, and LFP wants charging to stop completely when it is full.  Adding energy to a full LFP forces it to plate metallic lithium, irreversibly removing lithium from the electrolyte and growing dendrites that can short the cells.

Float at 13.5v or below will not hurt the battery, but continued charging of a full battery above that will degrade it.

Some lead acid alternator regulators might seemingly work fine for LFP, but a regulator made for lithium will provide best life and highest usable charge.

I'm certainly not saying don't use your charger if it seems to work, but you may be reducing the life of the battery.

[UWSkier]

Charging a LiFePO4 battery with a standard charger won't generally hurt it, but you'll never get it to full charge either.  They need a higher input voltage to reach a full SoC than a flooded battery does.  A typical charger will usually only charge a LiFePO4 battery to about 70% give or take.  That's why all the RV guys making the switch need to upgrade their charge controllers to higher voltage.

[dlb]

7 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Charging a LiFePO4 battery with a standard charger won't generally hurt it, but you'll never get it to full charge either.  They need a higher input voltage to reach a full SoC than a flooded battery does.  A typical charger will usually only charge a LiFePO4 battery to about 70% give or take.  That's why all the RV guys making the switch need to upgrade their charge controllers to higher voltage.

Some RV folks keep their OEM onboard chargers but rely on solar and a programmable shunt to fully charge their lithium set up.  Not something you would want on a wake boat.

[EchelonMike]

Thanks all for the education!

[Bushmankev]

Monster Marine makes an awesome LiPo crank battery for $900. I’ve been running it in my bass boat for 4 years now and it’s a beast. If you go lipo make sure it’s a cranking lipo and not just a deep cycle. Stay away from Nex-Gen Lithium brand. 100s of guys in the bass community are having severe warranty issues and the company won’t stand behind their product. Monster on the other hand has been fantastic for their customer service and have many angler friends running their products with great results.