2024 Wagoneer L

[SurfMI]

Hey Crew! I am new to the forum here.  My wife and I just purchased our first boat and are looking forward to getting it out on the water this summer.  After having spent many, many hours reading (and learning) the content, I wanted to get your thoughts on my rig setup.  I realize that there are some older threads about the Wagoneer and wanted some updated input based on the newer MY of the vehicle and my specific situation.

Boat: 2023 Axis T250 | Trailer: tandem axel | Typical towing: ~5miles around town / to the lake | Special towing: 1-2x / year 250mile trip (one-way) from Metro Detroit to Northern Michigan

Proposed Tow Rig: I will get a new company vehicle in January and there are some visual limitations which puts HD trucks out of the realm of possibilities.  We are looking to order a 2024 Wagoneer L, specs below:

We would add the HD tow package which includes the following features: 3.92 Rear Axle Ratio, Electronic Rear Limited-Slip Differential, Heavy-Duty Engine Cooling, Selec-Speed® Control, Trailer-Brake Control, Trailer-Hitch Zoom.

I remember reading in some threads that the 10k towing is only available with a WDH but was never confirmed.  does anyone know about this for sure?  If it is needed, thoughts on conversion to use a WDH with the Axis trailers?

Also thoughts on adding the Quadra-Lift® Air Suspension package?  It is an expensive add-on as it does not come alone, and I am not really sure if it would really be needed or not.

Thanks for your expertise to help educate me.

 

 

[pauley71]

I don't think you can use a WDH with the swing tongue trailer.  Whether or not is required should be covered in the vehicle owners manual.

Air lift will prevent sag and improve your overall towing experience but not required.

Remember that GCWR includes boat/gas/gear (~8k+), vehicle/gas (~7k) and occupants/gear.  

All that said, It will tow it just fine and I wouldn't be afraid of it but it depends on your use case.  If you are going to tow it 4 hours each way through mountain passes .. I wouldn't.  If its a grocery getter and you are towing 10 miles to the lake at sea level .. have fun!

[UWSkier]

What's the tongue weight of a T250 trailer, and what's the payload of the tow vehicle?

[SurfMI]

there was another post from a T250 owner (triple axle trailer) with a total weight with fuel of 8200lb, so let's take that as a reference, would be roughly 820lb at the tongue.  

payload of tow vehicle: 1,360lb

Edited December 28, 2023 by SurfMI

[UWSkier]

33 minutes ago, SurfMI said:

there was another post from a T250 owner (triple axle trailer) with a total weight with fuel of 8200lb, so let's take that as a reference, would be roughly 820lb at the tongue.  

payload of tow vehicle: 1,360lb

You'll probably be over payload by a bit but for most towing, will be fine.  Might consider an EOH brake setup for the trailer though just as an added safety margin.

[jjackkrash]

Looking at the numbers you posted you can probably stay within specs if you run light, but payload is going to be eaten up pretty quickly by tongue weight.  And I also doubt you are going to enjoy the towing experience.  If you can't get into an HD truck drive slow, pack light and manage expectations.  

Edited December 28, 2023 by jjackkrash

[ahopkins22LSV]

I have no experience with that vehicle but the tow north from metro Detroit is pretty mild until you get around west branch. I suspect you will have plenty of power but in the wind and going down hill braking might be sketchy but you’ll probably be fine as long as you don’t pack your whole house for the trip. If you do, I’d probably take a second vehicle. I see a lot worst setup vehicles going north on 75 than a wagoneer that’s for sure. Blows my mind when I see side by sides stacked on a tractor supply co trailer behind a mid 2000’s 1500. 

[SurfMI]

1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

Looking at the numbers you posted you can probably stay within specs if you run light, but payload is going to be eaten up pretty quickly by tongue weight.  And I also doubt you are going to enjoy the towing experience.  If you can't get into an HD truck drive slow, pack light and manage expectations.  

I was always more focused on finding the highest total towing capacity in the segment, but you are totally right. It is only part of the equation and having a rig with a higher payload is also important. 
 

we run light in the vehicle as most trips will be just the wife and I, meeting the rest of the crew up north for the longer hauls. 

[SurfMI]

5 minutes ago, ahopkins22LSV said:

I have no experience with that vehicle but the tow north from metro Detroit is pretty mild until you get around west branch. I suspect you will have plenty of power but in the wind and going down hill braking might be sketchy but you’ll probably be fine as long as you don’t pack your whole house for the trip. If you do, I’d probably take a second vehicle. I see a lot worst setup vehicles going north on 75 than a wagoneer that’s for sure. Blows my mind when I see side by sides stacked on a tractor supply co trailer behind a mid 2000’s 1500. 

Thanks for the local feedback. Kind of what I was thinking as well, compared to others towing through mountain passes and at elevation, this trip “feels easy.” Then again it’s still a ton of weight behind you  

we must be seeing some of the same other people with their up north hauls 😂

[ahopkins22LSV]

17 minutes ago, SurfMI said:

Thanks for the local feedback. Kind of what I was thinking as well, compared to others towing through mountain passes and at elevation, this trip “feels easy.” Then again it’s still a ton of weight behind you  

we must be seeing some of the same other people with their up north hauls 😂

They are hard to miss

Honestly with that boat in our area I’d be more worried about wind. Even our 22LSV is a sail behind our Sierra. I don’t know how to predict how the wagoneer will hand that. Especially loaded for a trip up north. 
 

What local lake are you on and where do you head north to?

[SurfMI]

1 hour ago, ahopkins22LSV said:

They are hard to miss

Honestly with that boat in our area I’d be more worried about wind. Even our 22LSV is a sail behind our Sierra. I don’t know how to predict how the wagoneer will hand that. Especially loaded for a trip up north. 
 

What local lake are you on and where do you head north to?

Good to know how your setup handles, did not think about the wind, especially with how tall the T250 sits. We’re on Pine Lake and head up to the Harbor Springs area where my family has a place. Plan on dropping in up there on Little Traverse Bay, lake Charlevoix, Walloon, and Torch lake. 
 

what about you? 

[RyanB]

I’m a MOPAR fan so I’ll get that out of the way. My opinion is still that the Wagoneer will be the best modern SUV to use as a tow vehicle. The Hurricane looks impressive on paper and the ZF8HP is the best transmission available. 
 

I wouldn’t want to do a lot of mountain passes as I’d be worried about heat (that’s been my problem with both a Yukon XL Denali and a Expedition MAX) but you aren’t running in big hills. 
 

Agree with the comment about upgrading your trailer brakes. I went with straight electric on my boat a few years back and it’s been one of the best upgrades I’ve done. No more being pulled down the boat ramp with the TV brakes locked up is worth it. Pretty sure that electric brakes would also work with the built in trailer sway control in the Wagoneer. 
 

Since I upgraded the tires on my trailer I personally haven’t had trouble with wind, but I still greatly prefer to tow with my 3500 vs my Ex. 
 

On edit, I’d sure expect that T250 to weigh more than 8200 pounds?

Edited December 29, 2023 by RyanB

[ahopkins22LSV]

11 hours ago, SurfMI said:

Good to know how your setup handles, did not think about the wind, especially with how tall the T250 sits. We’re on Pine Lake and head up to the Harbor Springs area where my family has a place. Plan on dropping in up there on Little Traverse Bay, lake Charlevoix, Walloon, and Torch lake. 
 

what about you? 

We live just off White Lake so that’s our home lake. We go north 2-3 times a year with the boat and 2-3 times without. With the boat, we go to Portage Lake just north of Manistee or a variety of state campgrounds. This year it sounds like we are going to Young state park on Lake Charlevoix. We’ve stayed on Elk Lake and I loved that too. Burt Lake is on our list too. We also hit Lake St Clair 2-3 times a year. 
 

This our rig for camping. With the kayak racks, I have to be really mindful of the wind. I’m sure I’m over payload too but the truck doesn’t feel squirrelly or have any trouble braking. The worst part is the vibration from the straps holding the kayaks

[EchelonMike]

We tow our 247 with the baby brother of your proposed rig (Grand Cherokee L).  We spec'd the overland trim and also the Hemi V8.  The OG boats like the 247 are a lot lighter than the new boats, but I have been very impressed with the Jeep (my first Chrysler family product).  Great brakes, the suspension with magnetic dampers and air make for a really stable tow platform and the Hemi with the 8 spd pulls great. I would assume the larger Waggoneer, especially with the new twin turbo straight 6, will be an awesome tow platform.  Enjoy, and congrats on the new boat!  Welcome to the forum!

       -- Mike

 

[SurfMI]

21 hours ago, RyanB said:

I’m a MOPAR fan so I’ll get that out of the way. My opinion is still that the Wagoneer will be the best modern SUV to use as a tow vehicle. The Hurricane looks impressive on paper and the ZF8HP is the best transmission available. 
 

I wouldn’t want to do a lot of mountain passes as I’d be worried about heat (that’s been my problem with both a Yukon XL Denali and a Expedition MAX) but you aren’t running in big hills. 
 

Agree with the comment about upgrading your trailer brakes. I went with straight electric on my boat a few years back and it’s been one of the best upgrades I’ve done. No more being pulled down the boat ramp with the TV brakes locked up is worth it. Pretty sure that electric brakes would also work with the built in trailer sway control in the Wagoneer. 
 

Since I upgraded the tires on my trailer I personally haven’t had trouble with wind, but I still greatly prefer to tow with my 3500 vs my Ex. 
 

On edit, I’d sure expect that T250 to weigh more than 8200 pounds?

For the weight, took it from here : T250 actual weight @Livinlogs post. Considering I have m6 engine and tandem axle I would guess mine will be a touch lighter. 
 

@RyanB, how did you go about upgrading to full electric? If I am going to the upgrade I would think it makes more sense to go that route rather than EoH to take full advantage of trailer sway control and electric brake controller in the Wagoneer. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by SurfMI

[SurfMI]

10 hours ago, ahopkins22LSV said:

We live just off White Lake so that’s our home lake. We go north 2-3 times a year with the boat and 2-3 times without. With the boat, we go to Portage Lake just north of Manistee or a variety of state campgrounds. This year it sounds like we are going to Young state park on Lake Charlevoix. We’ve stayed on Elk Lake and I loved that too. Burt Lake is on our list too. We also hit Lake St Clair 2-3 times a year. 
 

This our rig for camping. With the kayak racks, I have to be really mindful of the wind. I’m sure I’m over payload too but the truck doesn’t feel squirrelly or have any trouble braking. The worst part is the vibration from the straps holding the kayaks

Sweet setup and local trip plans, I’ll have to check them out. Thanks for sharing! 

[jjackkrash]

@RyanB do you mean EOH or a true electric drum brake?  I think EOH (using disc brakes) is the trailer-braking gold standard and you don't have to worry about dunking electric parts in water.  It would be good to know if you had good luck with a true electric drum brake on a boat trailer or if you mean EOH.    

[RyanB]

51 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

@RyanB do you mean EOH or a true electric drum brake?  I think EOH (using disc brakes) is the trailer-braking gold standard and you don't have to worry about dunking electric parts in water.  It would be good to know if you had good luck with a true electric drum brake on a boat trailer or if you mean EOH.    

Mine are true electric.  Changed from disc to drum.  Locked out the tongue.  Brakes on both axles.  Battery for the system mounted to the winch tower.

[jjackkrash]

2 hours ago, RyanB said:

Mine are true electric.  Changed from disc to drum.  Locked out the tongue.  Brakes on both axles.  Battery for the system mounted to the winch tower.

Are they making these waterproof these days?  That sounds simpler than EOH for sure but I would be concerned about dunking electric drums.  (Maybe not even an issue with fresh water vs. salt or brackish).   

[Sparky450]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:46 AM, ahopkins22LSV said:

The worst part is the vibration from the straps holding the kayaks

Try putting a twist in the straps. That is an old motorcycle trick. It also works with the straps when I haul product on my flatbed utility trailer. 

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

Are they making these waterproof these days?  That sounds simpler than EOH for sure but I would be concerned about dunking electric drums.  (Maybe not even an issue with fresh water vs. salt or brackish).   

I had the same concern before I had the upgrade done.  But a buddy with a Nautique had it done a couple years before me and never has had trouble.  The technician that did it is the same guy that does all the work for most of the boat dealers around here.  He says he does it all the time.

I am pretty sure I did mine before the 2019 season.  We do all launch and retrieve, and a lot of towing.  In 5 seasons, I'd say that is conservatively 25,000 miles of towing, and who knows how many times the trailer has been dunked.  It still works fine.  I do have the trailer serviced every other year (will have it done this spring), but haven't had to touch the brakes since that was done.

It is really nice to have working brakes when backing down a steep ramp.  And no "clunk" when you start/stop.  And no worries with the exhaust brake when going down the steep passes.  For me, it was $ well spent.

21 minutes ago, Sparky450 said:

Try putting a twist in the straps. That is an old motorcycle trick. It also works with the straps when I haul product on my flatbed utility trailer. 

The twist is what we do on the Bimini of the fishing boat.  works great.

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, Sparky450 said:

Try putting a twist in the straps. That is an old motorcycle trick. It also works with the straps when I haul product on my flatbed utility trailer. 

I will definitely try that! Thank you!

[dalt1]

On 12/30/2023 at 4:02 PM, ahopkins22LSV said:

I will definitely try that! Thank you!

Works great even a half or one twist will cure the flutter.

[Slayer]

@SurfMI, I think the Wagoneer will work OK for you.  But just OK.  I wouldn't want to take it any further than you suggest, nor would I want to take it south to any of the TVA lakes this forum really likes.  FWIW, I don't think any 1/2ton, let alone an SUV, is a good tow vehicle for a 25' boat.  My prior F150 pulled my 25LSV fine.  It didn't do so confidently, but did so and I wouldn't want to take it further than northern MI.  I opted for a super duty and I now have confidence to take that anywhere towing my boat.  I like the suggestion of EOH brake upgrades.  That will help you, but it's not going to solve the sail challenge @ahopkins22LSV mentioned.  I think you're going to get pushed around a bit.  It may be fine for your use case, but if you see yourself taking longer trips with the boat, I would think differently about a tow vehicle.  

After having the super duty and towing the 25LSV with it, I can't see myself going to a half ton again.  Even if I still had my 23LSV or downsized to one in the future, I don't see myself in another half ton anytime soon.

[Sparky450]

7 hours ago, Slayer said:

After having the super duty and towing the 25LSV with it, I can't see myself going to a half ton again.  Even if I still had my 23LSV or downsized to one in the future, I don't see myself in another half ton anytime soon

And another one that said the 1/2 ton was fine.
Until he pulled with a HD.!😎😎