Max Trailering & Z71 Off-Road Packages (Silverado 1500)- Helpful for towing?

[dizzygti]

26 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

if your getting the rated city mileage in daily driving your driving like me an old man and if thats short stop and go its pretty much impossible for me to get 19, 19 is what i get at 74-75 in my 2.7.  i dont use the lie o meter which is  consistently 2 miles/gallon high.  i have to be a good bit on elevated expressways with little or no traffic mixed with some surface streets driving 60 to get to get anywhere near 19.  i divide miles by gallons refilled 

It's my daily commute to work, 68 miles round trip, mostly country highways at 55-60mph.   I don't baby it but communting traffic is calm for me, and I leave it in Eco mode unless I'm towing the boat.  I too divide my miles per gallons refilled.   

[HollywoodBall]

I tow my '18 22 MXZ with a 2021 Sierra 1500 Elevation with X31 suspension and 3.0 Duramax powertrain and I think it does it good enough.  I've got a tow from Lake Norman, NC, to Cheat Lake, WV, when I bought it, and another big one last month from Cheat Lake, WV, to Seneca, SC, where I left it for winter storage and warranty work.  Both of those trips averaged about 15mpg, however, it will drink the DEF in tow mode (normally sips for months with daily driving).

No way in hell I'd even consider the turbo 4 banger.  Just, no.  I don't even care about the numbers or how close they are to the diesel or V8. I do. not. care.  I'll never buy it and if you gave me one I'd go trade it.

The 3.0 and X31 package handles the weight well though.  The only time it makes me feel just a tad uncomfortable is when I hit those swoopy dips on the highway that are marked up with tractor trailer marks from jumping trailers.  If I towed more, I would probably step up to a 3/4 ton, but I dock during the season, so only need to tow in/out and for service, and random isolated trips.

 

 

[HollywoodBall]

Anyone know how to fix that BS?  No matter what I did to the file it flipped it.

[granddaddy55]

2 hours ago, dizzygti said:

It's my daily commute to work, 68 miles round trip, mostly country highways at 55-60mph.   I don't baby it but communting traffic is calm for me, and I leave it in Eco mode unless I'm towing the boat.  I too divide my miles per gallons refilled.   

gotcha, yea at those speeds my 2.7 gets 25.5-26, my rated hwy

[carguy79ta]

Just to chime in..my 13 ram 6.7 cummins get good fuel mileage. I run with 5in pipe turbo back 200+tune Fleece turbo. Last summer I had to drive to the lake twice by myself so I decided to see how good of fuel mileage I could get. Along with several small errands spread out over 4 days. Lie.o.meter said 24.5 and hand calcd 22.5mpg. Was driving 60-70mph. A note on performance..at 90-100 my truck feels about as fast as my 2010 camaro that I cammed headers BT cam at the same speed. Crazy. I  sure if we raced starting at 90 the camaro would win but it wouldn't be a blowout.

[granddaddy55]

On 11/30/2023 at 2:29 PM, HollywoodBall said:

Anyone know how to fix that BS?  No matter what I did to the file it flipped it.

take a screen shot of your pic on phone and upload that

[PrestigeLakeWide]

Not sure if the 1500 is getting the newer Diesel in 25 but the Tahoe and Suburban are:

Quote

 Chevy now offers a heavily revised version of the Duramax diesel 3.0-liter inline-six. Partnered with a 10-speed automatic gearbox, the six-cylinder now produces 305 horsepower and 495 pound-feet of torque, up from 277 ponies and 460 pound-feet in the outgoing Tahoe and Suburban

 

[amartin]

I am pretty sure that the truck line already has the new diesel the LZO.

[redrooster]

16 minutes ago, amartin said:

I am pretty sure that the truck line already has the new diesel the LZO.

It does.  We have a few in our fleet for light duty.  An amazing truck. Unloaded we are getting 25-27 mpg on freeway. 

 

[PrestigeLakeWide]

Good to know! I missed that launch.

[jjackkrash]

My '23 1500 has the new/updated 3.0L diesel.  I am not sure if it was a midyear refresh or not but at least some of the '23s got it.  

[Jordan22]

I'm just now realizing that the 5.3L V8 actually has LESS torque (383 lb-ft) than the 2.7L Turbo (430 lb-ft). Link here: https://www.modernautoco.com/research-silverado-1500-engines

In my mind, that rules out the 5.3L V8. Sure you get more HP, but torque is far more desirable for towing purposes right? Why pay more for less?

From a towing performance perspective, it seems like it is a no-brainer decision to go with the 3.0L Duramax Diesel which is what I'm heavily leaning toward now since it seems like it will make towing around town (stop & go) as well as towing over mountain passes much easier. 

I guess my only hesitancy are some of the inconveniences with a Diesel. Looking around my area, only about 50% of gas stations offer diesel. Not a huge problem as I'll just eventually learn which gas stations do and on't have it, but what about longer trips when there are longer stretches between gas stations in unfamiliar areas? If you own a diesel, do you just have to be a bit more planful with your trips or topping off whenever in doubt?

I'm also just learning the differences between Diesel #1 and Diesel #2 and needing to use Diesel #1 for below freezing temps? 

Anyways, I'd be curious to hear from other diesel owners about how inconvenient (if at all) it felt when switching to a diesel truck for the first time. 

[justgary]

22 minutes ago, Jordan22 said:

Anyways, I'd be curious to hear from other diesel owners about how inconvenient (if at all) it felt when switching to a diesel truck for the first time. 

Literally the thread right after this one....

 

 

[wakesonthesnake]

I would not rule out the 5.3 based on peak torque.  You get a better power curve and the ten speed transmission.  

[Cole2001]

1 hour ago, Jordan22 said:

I guess my only hesitancy are some of the inconveniences with a Diesel. Looking around my area, only about 50% of gas stations offer diesel. Not a huge problem as I'll just eventually learn which gas stations do and on't have it, but what about longer trips when there are longer stretches between gas stations in unfamiliar areas? If you own a diesel, do you just have to be a bit more planful with your trips or topping off whenever in doubt?

I'm also just learning the differences between Diesel #1 and Diesel #2 and needing to use Diesel #1 for below freezing temps? 

I’ve driven all over the west states and provinces with a diesel and never ran into an issue. Normally the more remote gas stations will have diesel and the ones that don’t likely have one across the street that does. 
 

Diesel #1 and 2 are kind of a thing of the past. Pretty much everywhere is #2 or simply just “diesel” and switches to winter grade when needed. 
 

Being the baby diesel you aren’t going to have the issues with taking forever to warm up and expensive maintenance costs. 
 

Personally in a GM I would do the 3.0 or 6.2 if towing is a focus. Still have to give it to the ecoboost but I’ll leave that one alone. 

[jjackkrash]

I have never had a real problem finding diesel that I can remember, but on trips on unfamiliar terrain I also make it a point not to run it down to absolutely nothing on the highway and hope the next remote station has it or isn't out.  I got close to out once when I pushed the gauge farther than I should have and then pulled into a station off the highway with a diesel sign but the station was out.  I was really sweating looking for the next one (and got pretty lucky just a mile or two up the road) but I won't do that again.  But if you use common sense diesel on the highway is generally not hard to find. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by jjackkrash

[JeffK]

9 hours ago, Jordan22 said:

I guess my only hesitancy are some of the inconveniences with a Diesel. Looking around my area, only about 50% of gas stations offer diesel. Not a huge problem as I'll just eventually learn which gas stations do and on't have it, but what about longer trips when there are longer stretches between gas stations in unfamiliar areas? If you own a diesel, do you just have to be a bit more planful with your trips or topping off whenever in doubt?

With my 2500 HD, I can get between 550-600 miles to a tank if I am not towing anything and can keep my foot out of it a little bit. IMHO, your bladder won't outlast your fuel gauge. We live in Ky and I've made the drive to Hilton Head on a single tank before, but never without having to make a bio-break stop. 

And keep in mind, semis run on diesel too, so you won't see long trips without passing a station that carries it on the regular.

Edited December 5, 2023 by JeffK

[Jordan22]

Does anyone know at what temp the 3.0L Duramax Diesel on the 1500 needs to have the Block heater? I'm finding inconsistent results when searching other sources.

At first I was thinking it might be a disadvantage of a diesel, but perhaps it's actually an advantage being able to have a block heater, allowing to have warm air flowing in the cab right away. I suppose doing a remote start can also achieve that as well, although it will sip some gas while the engine is on.

Out of curiosity, what happens if you need to park somewhere in extreme cold temps without electricity for the block heater? Are you at risk of not getting the engine to ever start? 

 

 

[Cole2001]

How cold are we talking? You aren’t going to need a block heater until -20 and even then it’s just recommended, more of a convenience. 
 

You can also get a block heater on a gas truck. Pretty sure it’s a standard option on all Canadian trucks 

[JeffK]

28 minutes ago, Jordan22 said:

Out of curiosity, what happens if you need to park somewhere in extreme cold temps without electricity for the block heater? Are you at risk of not getting the engine to ever start? 

You would have to have some crazy extreme temps for that to ever be an issue, like artic north temps. But even then, diesel motors have glow plugs to help with cold starts. You turn the key to the on position and wait for the glow plug indicator on the dash to go out, then crank. You might have have slightly longer crank times and you might need to let it warm up just a bit before taking off. You could notice some reduced power until it warms up a tiny bit. Diesels rely on compression to fire in the cylinder, not spark like gasoline engines do. 

I had an old ford excursion as my first diesel and one year it got really cold and I didn't know about the block heater. I started the truck and it sounded like it was coming apart from the inside out. I couldn't get enough power to get up my driveway and thought I had grenaded the motor. As soon as it warmed up it was fine. The oil gets really thick when cold and prevents the motor from making good compression until it warms up a bit. Newer diesels don't have nearly the same constraints. My 2018 is able to make power pretty quickly, regardless of temps. I let it warm up anyway, but they work much better.

[dizzygti]

14 hours ago, Jordan22 said:

I'm just now realizing that the 5.3L V8 actually has LESS torque (383 lb-ft) than the 2.7L Turbo (430 lb-ft). Link here: https://www.modernautoco.com/research-silverado-1500-engines

In my mind, that rules out the 5.3L V8. Sure you get more HP, but torque is far more desirable for towing purposes right? Why pay more for less?

 

Peak number vs area under the curve.   Area under the curve and especially low rpms is what you want for towing, regardless of peak numbers.  

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, dizzygti said:

Peak number vs area under the curve.   Area under the curve and especially low rpms is what you want for towing, regardless of peak numbers.  

Which is why forced induction is a benefit, diesel or gas. But also why the 8 and 10 speed transmissions are beneficial to peaky engines. As long as the driver is ok running higher RPMs, the power is there. 

[justgary]

Power is torque times rotational velocity.  In other words, horsepower is directly calculated from torque and RPM.

[dizzygti]

16 hours ago, RyanB said:

As long as the driver is ok drinking gas due to running higher RPMs, the power is there. 

I'm a forced induction guy myself,  but small boosted motor whether diesel or gas is going to use more gas than a bigger engine NA or FI.  It's all in the engine power equation (charge air pressure), it just takes more rpms, making exhaust flow, to spin those hairdryers.  That means more load, heat, cooling capability, higher octane, etc.  High rpms contribute to driver fatique also on long hauls....

 

I love my 3.5EB but wouldn't choose it for a tow vehicle if I had a choice.  I get a new truck every year through a family business, have to get what they order to get the fleet discount. 😁

Edited December 6, 2023 by dizzygti

[RyanB]

10 hours ago, dizzygti said:

I'm a forced induction guy myself,  but small boosted motor whether diesel or gas is going to use more gas than a bigger engine NA or FI.  It's all in the engine power equation (charge air pressure), it just takes more rpms, making exhaust flow, to spin those hairdryers.  That means more load, heat, cooling capability, higher octane, etc.  High rpms contribute to driver fatique also on long hauls....

 

I love my 3.5EB but wouldn't choose it for a tow vehicle if I had a choice.  I get a new truck every year through a family business, have to get what they order to get the fleet discount. 😁

I’ve read this multiple times and am unsure what you’re saying. 
 

Agree (and it’s been proven) that when towing a motor like the EcoBoost is more thirsty than a larger V8. But my experience isn’t that is vastly more. And they are about equal or maybe slightly more fuel efficient when not towing. So yes there is a trade off but in overall mixed driving the MPGs will be slightly better in the forced induction smaller engine. 
 

In regard to higher octane, neither the EcoBoost nor the new Hurricane require higher octane to run. At least not in standard output trim. The EB recommends it but not required when towing. Which is different than say the Hemi that needs mid grade or the 6.2 that (last I checked, and was the case when I owned one) requires premium fuel. The GM 5.3 does run on regular, but it gives up a significant amount of power to any of the above engines. 
 

And I agree with you that higher RPMs will contribute to driver fatigue. Which is why FI is a big advantage. The FI engines are almost  big diesel like in the way they rarely if ever need high RPMs. The EB just chugs along almost always below 3000 RPMs where the big V8s need to downshift and spin up.  No driver fatigue here.  
 

If I were looking for something as a more dedicated tow vehicle, there is no question what I’d get - a HD with a 6.6 or 6.7 diesel. But in the half ton market, the best engine for towing and overall performance are the smaller FI engines.