Max Trailering & Z71 Off-Road Packages (Silverado 1500)- Helpful for towing?

[Bozboat]

Get the diesel option and the max trailer option, and 4WD.  The off road stuff is not necessary, although it looks cool.

 

[amartin]

3 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Get the diesel option and the max trailer option, and 4WD.  The off road stuff is not necessary, although it looks cool.

 

+1000

[dizzygti]

13 hours ago, Jordan22 said:

So, it seems the Off Road Package isn't really offering anything of value for boat towing but I'm still not sure whether or not I should get the Max Towing Package. Obviously, it doesn't hurt to have it but that extra $2,000 could also be used in other features on the truck (or upgrades to the boat) so I don't want to spend on features that wont be of use.

Can anyone help break down for me if there are any real benefits to these features when already towing well under capacity, or are these features all simply related to increasing towing capacity?

• Increased towing and GCWR
• Automatic locking rear differential
• Handling/Trailering2 Suspension Package
• Enhanced cooling radiator
• Revised shock tuning
• Heavier duty rear springs and increased RGAWR
• 9.76" rear axle
• 3.42 axle ratio (gas engine), 3.73 axle ratio (diesel engine)
• Trailer brake controller

I would add it.   I have Max Towing in my F-150, and with newer (heavier) boats as a future option, you will want it.   And gas mileage is horrible in my 3.5EB while towing, I can't imagine a 2.7L 4cyl turbo pulling a wake boat getting anything reasonable, and you'd make up the costs of the upgrades in fuel savings.   

Edited November 29, 2023 by dizzygti

[RyanB]

First off, you are on the WRONG forum if you’re looking for people to encourage you to spend less money. We all are very good at spending our own money. When it’s someone else’s money?  Well, no way. 
 

Second, the way you will spend the most money is by trying to cut a few corners and pay less up front and then have buyers remorse, performance that doesn’t meet your expectations, and end up needing/wanting to upgrade because you didn’t check an option box you should have. Buy once cry once. 
 

Comparing the 2.7 turbo to the 5.3, the turbo actually has more torque and around 40 less HP. While I haven’t towed with either, I really doubt that you would notice a huge difference in power. The smaller engine might even “feel” stronger as with the turbos it can run on lower RPMs. My comparison would be my 3.5 EcoBoost vs a prior 6.2 and the Hemi Grand Cherokee I currently have. The EB feels stronger (and is faster in the mountains) but it’s really more relaxing as it turns less RPMs due to a flatter torque curve. If max tow is only in V8 get that. 
 

And since you are into analyzing everything, do a deep dive prior to deciding on the small diesel. I’m not a diesel hater. Far from it as I’ve owned diesels since 1998, and even had a 3.0 in a grand Cherokee that I loved. 
 

The problem with diesel is operating costs (since you’re concerned with that). You will get more MPG but you will also pay a significant premium at the pump. Around here diesel is close to $1/gallon more than regular. So look at cost per mile more than than MPG. All maintenance is more expensive.  
 

Unless you really enjoy the way a diesel drives, I’d go with a gasser. Because you aren’t likely to save $ with it. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by RyanB

[jjackkrash]

I get almost 30 MPG (between 24 and 28 depending on speed and hills) running down the highway with the 3.0 liter and 16 mpg when towing at or near towing capacity (but have not towed something with a bunch of wind resistance like a travel trailer with it).  The only engine I'd consider over the 3.0l is the 6.2L, but both have distinct advantages over the other.  The 6.2L is peppier but the diesel is smoother and provides a great towing experience.  For towing I'd stick with the diesel.  

I have owned a 5.3L and it's still a good engine, just not as nearly good as the 6.2 or the diesel.  I have no experience with the little turbo but reviews say it's a decent little power plant.  

Edit:  I can't argue that there isn't a price premium for diesel right now, it sucks but it's a fact.  

Edited November 29, 2023 by jjackkrash

[Cole2001]

49 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

I get almost 30 MPG (between 24 and 28 depending on speed and hills) running down the highway with the 3.0 liter and 16 mpg when towing at or near towing capacity (but have not towed something with a bunch of wind resistance like a travel trailer with it).  The only engine I'd consider over the 3.0l is the 6.2L, but both have distinct advantages over the other.  The 6.2L is peppier but the diesel is smoother and provides a great towing experience.  For towing I'd stick with the diesel.  

I have owned a 5.3L and it's still a good engine, just not as nearly good as the 6.2 or the diesel.  I have no experience with the little turbo but reviews say it's a decent little power plant.  

Edit:  I can't argue that there isn't a price premium for diesel right now, it sucks but it's a fact.  

Not to de rail the topic but those are some impressions numbers. 16mpg towing I pretty much get that empty with my cummins. The 3.5 EcoBoost is nowhere near that either, your hills must only go down lol. 

[amartin]

Different vehicle, but I consistently get about 25 - 26 gpm with my 3.0 Yukon XL on a mix of suburban / highway / city driving.  The worst mileage that I get is long highway trips at +80 mph, as the speed kills the fuel economy. 

The 3.0 diesel looks to have way more torque (495 vs 383) than the 5.3 per GM's website.  It will also be a much flatter torque curve, which will make the towing experience much better.

However, assuming that this will be your daily driver, what your driving style is might make one better than the other.  I am way past my years of racing from one stop light to the next or trying to to beat anyone anywhere.  I am very comfortable taking my time getting to my 80 mph cruise on the highway.  The diesel fits me perfect for my daily driving and occasional towing.  If you driving style is markedly different, the gas engine will be better for you.

[dizzygti]

15 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

The 3.5 EcoBoost is nowhere near that either, your hills must only go down lol. 

Seriously.  My 3.5 EB gets 8-10mpg on my 3 mile hilly tow to the bow ramp.   I average 19-20mpg in daily driving though.   

[jjackkrash]

3 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Not to de rail the topic but those are some impressions numbers. 16mpg towing I pretty much get that empty with my cummins. The 3.5 EcoBoost is nowhere near that either, your hills must only go down lol. 

The computer gave me 15.8 going 88 miles mostly flat I-5 last weekend towing the flatbed loaded.  So not hand calced.  I get a little better towing the ski boat on the same run.  Head over the hills or get heavy on the gas pedal and all bets are off.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by jjackkrash

[RyanB]

2 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Seriously.  My 3.5 EB gets 8-10mpg on my 3 mile hilly tow to the bow ramp.   I average 19-20mpg in daily driving though.   

But the EcoBoost will tow just as well (or perhaps better - very similar TQ and significantly more HP) than the 3.0, and do it on less expensive gas. 
 

To me the big selling point on the 3.0 Duramax is a big step up in TQ vs the 5.3. It isn’t if you compare it to a direct injection forced induction gasser. 

[jjackkrash]

Does the EB run on 87?  There isn't really that much difference in my are between diesel and 92 octane premium. 

[RyanB]

26 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Does the EB run on 87?  There isn't really that much difference in my are between diesel and 92 octane premium. 

Standard output runs on 87 (85 here). I’ve seen no difference in performance between regular and premium in mine. 
 

Nationally, diesel is still $0.20/gallon more than premium, and almost exactly $1.00 more than regular unleaded. 
 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by RyanB

[Bozboat]

In no particular order, I have had a 426 Cadillac, a 400ci Firebird, several 350 chevys, a 3.5 Ecoboost, at least three 6.2 GMs, a 99 Cummins, a 2004 3/4 ton duramax, three 5.3s, two 5.0s and currently a 6.7 power-stroke and a 400 hp 3.0 twin turbo suv. Mixed into that I suffered with a dozen other lesser mini vans, cars and trucks of mixed varieties. 
 

My lessons learned after years of mistakes: 1) buy a diesel, the bigger the better. 2) buy your kids one F150 each. (Don’t waste money on beaters and step ups) 3) stay 300 feet from anything German, unless you desire submitting to a personal relationship with service managers. 3) buy pick up trucks, the resale is amazing. 4) go ahead and get the bigger better whatever the first time as you will waste a fortune trying to avoid the inevitable.

Re Towing, no one has ever said “I sure wish I had a smaller lighter duty truck” or if they did they were never heard from again.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bozboat

[jjackkrash]

I love, love, love, German cars, but point well taken on the service.  German engineers will happily design in an extra 500% to the service costs to squeeze out 5% more performance and will never apologize for the design decision.  

[Bozboat]

7 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

I love, love, love, German cars, but point well taken on the service.  German engineers will happily design in an extra 500% to the service costs to squeeze out 5% more performance and will never apologize for the design decision.  

In between bi monthly $2000 service visits, my 335D was a fun drive.  BMW eventually stepped up and paid for some of the repairs by extending warranties. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bozboat

[dizzygti]

12 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

Does the EB run on 87? 

Yes, I got about 1mpg more on 93 than on 87 over a year of comapring, not worth it unless you are chasing performance.  

[Bozboat]

2 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Yes, I got about 1mpg more on 93 than on 87 over a year of comapring, not worth it unless you are chasing performance.  

I ran premium when towing with the eco boost 3.5. It seemed like a good idea. No meaningful difference in mileage for me. Anytime the turbos were spinning up the mpg went way down.

[dizzygti]

2 hours ago, Bozboat said:

I ran premium when towing with the eco boost 3.5. It seemed like a good idea. No meaningful difference in mileage for me. Anytime the turbos were spinning up the mpg went way down.

I have before during summer months, but I used 93 octane for the first 5-6 months of owning it, and then switched to 87.   1 mpg difference over several thousand miles didn't justify $0.50-0.70 more  per gallon.   I did just upgrade to a 2023 and have less than 500 miles on this one, so it's not even broken in yet.   In fact, I probably shouldn't be towing the boat, but I have three times already, just short distances but didn't have another option.    And now I've derailed the thread from initial topic, but maybe the perspective will help someone else.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by dizzygti

[granddaddy55]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:19 PM, Jordan22 said:

Trailer brake controller only works with a compatible trailer, right? The one I have now has a hydraulic brake actuator. 

 

electric over hydraulic new or conversion for controller to work.  read the label on the hitch and i bet it said 500 tongue and 5000 with out weight distribution hitch, 9000 with a wdh.  WDHs defeat surge brakes.  i tow a centurion ri230 (big boat) with a 2016 f150 4x2 with tow package.  i go all over the southeast on many 1000++++ round trips with no issues (not going over mountain passes  or experiencing steep long wet reservoir boat launches).   yes i could use some air bags!but dont have them. i use a solid still receiver for ball and a u clamp device for slop in the hitch.   

[granddaddy55]

16 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

Does the EB run on 87?  There isn't really that much difference in my are between diesel and 92 octane premium. 

though for towing 91 is recommended in manual but i have used 87 in my 2.7 on 10-11 long 1000+ mile round trips plus 44+ weeks/werkends a year since dec 2016 at home 2-3 trips a week 

[granddaddy55]

23 hours ago, dizzygti said:

I would add it.   I have Max Towing in my F-150, and with newer (heavier) boats as a future option, you will want it.   And gas mileage is horrible in my 3.5EB while towing, I can't imagine a 2.7L 4cyl turbo pulling a wake boat getting anything reasonable, and you'd make up the costs of the upgrades in fuel savings.   

2016 2.7 xlt numbers are horrible unless your going 60 then you get 8-9 maybe, more like 8, 70-77 is 7.3-6.7, but my truck only cost $33k delivered so i am way ahead,  now the cloth brick seats are horrible but i am cheap.  they were nad with my a20 and a good bit worse with the ri230, but my whole rig only cost 194k

[granddaddy55]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:49 PM, justgary said:

What size fuel tank does it have?  One reason I got the max tow in my F-150 is for the 35 gallon tank.  It is really nice not having to stop every 100 miles when towing.

not too bad with 2.7 and 23 gallons, we get almost 175😂🤣 , it would be very nice to have that big tank!

[granddaddy55]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:47 AM, Jordan22 said:

I've weighed the boat + trailer on a scale prior to purchasing. It comes out to 5,500 (including tongue weight). Boat is listed at 3,500 lbs dry weight, trailer is around 1,500 and then an extra 500 lbs for accessories and a half tank of gas.

Obviously, a V8 and the "Max Trailer Package" can't hurt, but I guess I'm trying to decide if it's worth $3,000 more and probably $1,000+ more in gas expenses per year? Alternatively, I could spend that money on boat upgrades or water sport "toys".

Am I going to notice a real difference towing 5,500 lbs with the 4 cylinder Turbocharge (9,000 lb tow capacity) compared to the V8 and the Max Trailering Package? 

 

 

you will not notice a diff between 2.7 6 cyl twin turbo.  pulls like a champ,  it easily goes from 65-75 to 80-80+ quickly to make passes when that is necessary . it just burns a ton of fuel to pull it off with the bigger boat.  it burned a ton pulling my a20 which was also 3500 dry plus 710 lead , really burns a bunch pulling the bigger 23 foot 2022 boat when rolling fast,  you want to save, go slower or buy the baby diesel (but accept the higher operating costs with diesel, def, and more expensive maintenance for daily driving).  all trucks are expensive now so choosing a lower trim like my 2016 xlt and getting good prices is really no longer an option so higher trim levels and baby diesel's are more attractive now but i am way too cheap

Edited November 30, 2023 by granddaddy55

[granddaddy55]

On 11/29/2023 at 11:08 AM, Jordan22 said:

The Diesel option is another $800 more than the V8 gas. Not a big difference in price, but what would be the advantage of Diesel over a V8. Honestly, my biggest hesitancy with Diesel is that I'll make a bonehead mistake and put gasoline in it at some point just out of second nature habit my whole life.

As a summary, these are the engine options:

• 2.7L Turbo High-Output engine 8-speed automatic transmission

• 5.3L EcoTec3 V8 engine 10-speed automatic transmission

• 3.0L Duramax® Turbo Diesel engine 10-speed automatic transmission

2.7 ford 6cyl is a 10 speed that folks luv!

Edited November 30, 2023 by granddaddy55

[granddaddy55]

20 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Seriously.  My 3.5 EB gets 8-10mpg on my 3 mile hilly tow to the bow ramp.   I average 19-20mpg in daily driving though.   

if your getting the rated city mileage in daily driving your driving like me an old man and if thats short stop and go its pretty much impossible for me to get 19, 19 is what i get at 74-75 in my 2.7.  i dont use the lie o meter which is  consistently 2 miles/gallon high.  i have to be a good bit on elevated expressways with little or no traffic mixed with some surface streets driving 60 to get to get anywhere near 19.  i divide miles by gallons refilled