Towing right at vehicle's suggested capacity...a bad idea?

[tjklein]

F150 to F250 Is roughly 1500lbs give or take the configuration. The difference has jumped up a bit. Those would be BIG friends. 

The biggest difference is just coming off idle with power in a diesel to avoid spinning, but seriously any 1/2 or 3/4 ton should be fine on the ramp.

[oldjeep]

22 minutes ago, tjklein said:

F150 to F250 Is roughly 1500lbs give or take the configuration. The difference has jumped up a bit. Those would be BIG friends. 

The biggest difference is just coming off idle with power in a diesel to avoid spinning, but seriously any 1/2 or 3/4 ton should be fine on the ramp.

Ram 1500 to 2500 is 600lbs for the cc versions with same size bed 

1500.  4,779 to 6,443 lbs

2500. 6,001 to 7,224 lbs

F150s are a lighter weight truck, by about 700lbs less than the equivalent ram

4,070 to 5,757 lbs

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by oldjeep

[Cole2001]

I used up regularly tow a buddies ri237 with a clapped out early 2000s gmc 1500. At times it was a little sketchy, coming out of the water if I left it in 2wd I would be spinning up the ramp. Where as in my f150 or diesel I could get out with little effort in 2wd. The extra weight really makes a difference. I also think the low end torque, the 1500 would be revving pretty high to get the boat, causing the wheels to spin. 

[UWSkier]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:44 AM, oldjeep said:

Ok.  In all seriousness 1/2 to vs 3/4 ton on a steep tow ramp.  How much do you think it makes a difference? There is at most a 600lb difference in max curb weight.

Couple of your fat friends in the half ton and you are even.

My 2024 Silverado 2500HD weighs 1600 lbs more than my 2016 Denali 1500 did.  Both gas 4x4s.

[oldjeep]

5 hours ago, UWSkier said:

My 2024 Silverado 2500HD weighs 1600 lbs more than my 2016 Denali 1500 did.  Both gas 4x4s.

 The Chevy 1/2 tons also seem to be lighter than the ram.

1500 4,410 to 5,710 lbs

2500 6,203 to 7,578 lbs

 

So I guess the answer to my question is - a lot if we are talking Chevy/Ford.

Edited October 25, 2023 by oldjeep

[justgary]

Yup, the Ford line got much lighter when they switched to aluminum bodies.  Better mileage unloaded, and you can always add ballast for towing if you want to.

[Bozboat]

1 hour ago, justgary said:

....... you can always add ballast for towing if you want to.

I believe  @oldjeep

original suggestion for adding weight to a truck involved asking heavies to ride along for ballast. I gather from this discussion that Ford owners potentially need heavier friends than Ram owners.

[dizzygti]

41 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

I believe  @oldjeep

original suggestion for adding weight to a truck involved asking heavies to ride along for ballast. I gather from this discussion that Ford owners potentially need heavier friends than Ram owners.

As a Ford owner, I can attest, no heavier friends needed.   

[RyanB]

On 10/23/2023 at 4:59 PM, tvano said:

devils advocate here.

consider an accident on that one occasion you are slightly over the line. 

you may be giving your insurance company the opportunity to deny your claim. 

This is an old wives tale that needs to be put to rest. Unless your insurance has a written policy exclusion for towing over the manufacturer weight rating, there is absolutely coverage in the event of an accident. 
 

For the OP, a couple notes. First, listed boat weights from all the manufacturers is lighter than what you will find in the real world. If you are keeping the Ex, I’d take any boat you are considering to a scale before you make a decision. Personal experience, my 2014 23LSV was 6300 pounds on the trailer. Add lead and fuel and I’m at 7000 pounds. My 2004 Crownline 21’ sterndrive before that was just over 5000 pounds ready to hit the lake. 
 

Smaller vehicles will have trouble with the boat on a steep ramp. My secondary tow vehicle has been a full save suv - first a Yukon XL Denali and then an Expedition MAX. My current boat could and would pull both of those several feet down the boat ramp with the tires locked up. I changed to electric brakes on my boat trailer and that solved the problem. 
 

For your question if a Yukon/Ex would make a significant difference vs the Expedition would make a difference, my experience is maybe. My 2011 Yukon XL really didn’t feel any more stable towing than my Grand Cherokee. The Expedition MAX is a much better tow vehicle than the Yukon. Maybe the new ones are better, but I was underwhelmed with my 2011. 

[REHinH20]

1 hour ago, RyanB said:

This is an old wives tale that needs to be put to rest. Unless your insurance has a written policy exclusion for towing over the manufacturer weight rating, there is absolutely coverage in the event of an accident. 
 

 

You are TECHNICALLY correct with that statement...but if the 2 insurance companies go into any "discussion" or if it ends up in court, it's not a question of denying the claim, it goes to FAULT.  If you are not within the towing limits of your vehicle you are giving the other party the opportunity to escalate and put you partially at fault.  If there is any injury in the accident, you have put yourself at risk of something that could (emphasized could) be above the limits of your coverage.  When that happens, I hope you have another policy (i.e. personal umbrella).  Unfortunately, any of us could be sued at any time, and if you are in front of a jury, will they be sympathetic to the owner of an expensive TOY or the poor injured widow with a good slip and fall attorney?!?

[asnowman]

To bring us slightly back on topic here, to @Jordan22 question, and since everyone loves pics, below is our 1st Malibu, an 02 23LSV, very similar to the one in the CL listing you posted.  We towed that thing all over New England with our Yukon XL.  With 4 kids and the boat loaded, it was never a concern for me towing it behind the Yukon XL from back then.  The newer Yukon XL and Expedition Max platforms are far more capable than the 04 and 07 Yukons we towed with back then.   

I would recommend, buy the boat, and a bigger SUV.  As an aside note, we have both a 2017 and a 2022 Yukon XL Denali now, neither tows our 2019 25 LSV very well for anything more than a trip to the ramp from the lake house, but i feel the 2017 tows better than the newer one.  

 

[tvano]

16 hours ago, RyanB said:

This is an old wives tale that needs to be put to rest. Unless your insurance has a written policy exclusion for towing over the manufacturer weight rating, there is absolutely coverage in the event of an accident. 

following up simply because my statement seems to be more logical (to me) than yours.

i am NOT attempting to assail your reputation; just looking to educate myself.

please provide a bit of background regarding your qualifications or where you find facts to back the notion.

i do realize that all on the internet is not real, but a quick search nets results that would deny your statement.

i've put little effort into the research. 

 

[Bozboat]

19 minutes ago, tvano said:

following up simply because my statement seems to be more logical (to me) than yours.

i am NOT attempting to assail your reputation; just looking to educate myself.

please provide a bit of background regarding your qualifications or where you find facts to back the notion.

i do realize that all on the internet is not real, but a quick search nets results that would deny your statement.

i've put little effort into the research. 

 

I buy insurance to pay for my mistakes/negligence. Negligence is failing to act as an ordinary prudent person would act.  Almost every instance insurance claim would be a preventable occurrence at some level. Coverage is written broadly. It would be a good idea to read your policy. (although I doubt many people actually read them)

 Insurance will generally not pay for intentional acts.  For example, I drive my truck down the ramp into the lake trying to run over my ex-wife's boyfriend vs. I slid down the ramp and got pulled into the water because my rig overloaded my ford escape, didn't realize my tires were thin, ramp was slick,  didn't have any heavy friends, and was in a hurry.  Think of negligence as a sliding scale.  On one side is pure accident and way on the other is pure intentional/criminal.  The closer you are to intentional you should expect difficulty with your claim.

[BlindSquirrel]

Drunk driving is a good example. Is it clearly against the law? yes. Will your insurance still pay if you crash your car? yes. 

[jjackkrash]

4 hours ago, tvano said:

following up simply because my statement seems to be more logical (to me) than yours.

i am NOT attempting to assail your reputation; just looking to educate myself.

please provide a bit of background regarding your qualifications or where you find facts to back the notion.

i do realize that all on the internet is not real, but a quick search nets results that would deny your statement.

i've put little effort into the research. 

 

Liability insurance generally provides a "defense" to third-party claims and "indemnity" from liability based on "occurrences" (accidents) that cause third parties damage or harm (generally physical bodily harm or damage to property).  Auto policies are usually written broadly to cover all occurrences or "accidents" arising out of operating the vehicle unless the risk is specifically excluded.  Policy terms are also pretty regulated by individual states.  

I have read many policies and have yet to see a personal auto (non-commercial) policy provide an exclusion based on towing outside specs, specifically.  But if you read the policy exclusions in your specific policy and there's an exclusion for towing over weight, then that risk is excluded, period.  The actual policy language controls.  But at some point, if you are towing so grossly overweight that it's tantamount to knowingly reckless or intentional misconduct, you could run afoul of a more general intentional or criminal act exclusion which might trigger a coverage denial.  But that's a pretty high bar and auto insurance is specifically designed to protect both the policy holder and third parties from negligent acts that cause injuries, so its not going to come into play unless its an extreme case.

Although I am licensed to do so in three states (hint), I am not providing an opinion here, so don't rely on what I am saying, and get a specific opinion on what your specific policy will or won't cover.    

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by jjackkrash

[kstateskier1]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:02 AM, wedge88 said:

Here's some more info that you may not be considering.  Think about the boat ramps that the boat will be launched at.  

I was helping my cousin winterize his 21VLX yesterday and had to put the boat back in the water because it wasn't aligned right on trailer after initial load.  I was driving his F150 Lariat 4wd and had the truck in 4wd.  Ramp was asphalt and minimal slope compared to what we see all season and the boat drug me back about 20' which caused pretty good "pucker" on the way down.  This truck is well within the tow range for this boat but it was an experience I didn't care for.

For the record, I tow with HD vehicles so this was something I haven't experienced but could see it as an issue on steep or slippery ramps with a lower capacity vehicle.  We all enjoy watching those videos on YouTube of TVs being pulled down the ramp but I'd prefer not to be in one of them.

Seems like more of a tire issue than a 150v250 issue here.  I tow a 22LSV with my '21 F150 SuperCrew all the time and have never even broken the tires loose, including on both steep and slick wet ramps.  

[oldjeep]

38 minutes ago, kstateskier1 said:

Seems like more of a tire issue than a 150v250 issue here.  I tow a 22LSV with my '21 F150 SuperCrew all the time and have never even broken the tires loose, including on both steep and slick wet ramps.  

A good point, especially since a lot of people dump the stock - pretty decent AT tires that most pickups come with in favor of wider and typically crappier tires (unless you drive offroad)

[Cole2001]

When sliding down a ramp, generally when you get to the water you stop. I see no issue 

[tvano]

@Bozboat @BlindSquirrel @jjackkrash thanks for the responses/feedback.

[obski]

On 10/23/2023 at 8:10 AM, Jordan22 said:

Mostly leaving at a slip during the summer, but I'd like to have the option to take it out to go on some weekend trips with it.

If you’re planning on mooring in the Willamette, you should plan on needing to pull the boat out about every 3-4 weeks to clean off the Willamette scum. Do a search for Tony’s Topical Toilet Tonic.

My first boat was an I/O that was around 3000# with the trailer, which I towed with a Sienna rated for 3500#. It was a bit scary at times towing and I burned out the transmission. I replaced the Sienna with a Tahoe and it was like night and day difference in towing. I wouldn’t feel comfortable towing at the upper limit of the vehicle.

[justgary]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:35 AM, Bozboat said:

I gather from this discussion that Ford owners potentially need heavier friends than Ram owners.

I'll just state for the record that I keep my F150 well ballasted with tools, junk, and scrap lumber.  It's a good thing, too, because I really don't have any friends....

[justgary]

1 hour ago, Cole2001 said:

When sliding down a ramp, generally when you get to the water you stop. I see no issue 

The issue is that a whole lot of folks aren't good enough at backing to make it to the water without a complete jackknife job.

[ChadFulton]

7 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

that’s a small boat compared to today’s boats, you are good to go.  suv’s really get helped by air bags.  worse case you install those.  always use a solid steel receiver inserted into your hitch 

i go all over the southern us on 1000+ mile round trips with a 2.7 4x2 f150 without airbags pulling a 22 ri 230 , a much much bigger boat than you are purchasing.  go have fun saving money with sn older boat and using your current truck.  suv’s are trucks, they are meant to tow too , they just sag harder because heavy rear end.   but again you are buying a tiny boat by today’s standards,  being equipped with a toe package that includes a tranny oil cooler is all you need and even that’s not a must.  the only thing a tow package gives you that really counts is that cooler .  the rest of the stats the tow package gives you are dependent on using a weight distributing hitch wich defeats surge brakes so it’s all fake basically.  your TRUCK can easily do this.  drive slower if your  worried 

If he had an expedition, yes... but he has an explorer.

Closer comparison would be to a ford ranger, not f150

[granddaddy55]

10 minutes ago, ChadFulton said:

If he had an expedition, yes... but he has an explorer.

Closer comparison would be to a ford ranger, not f150

omgoodness 🤦‍♂️,  i did get the two confused, i will delete my comment

[SkiPablo]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:24 PM, Jordan22 said:

Soon to be first-time boat owner here. I've spent many hours reading these message boards the the couple months and figured it was time to hop on and ask my own question

So, here's our situation...The largest vehicle we currently have is a 2021 Ford Explorer (5,300 towing capacity).

Currently, my preferred option (within budget) is 2003 Wakesetter LSV (23'). With the trailer and a quarter tank of gas it would seemingly be right around 5,000 pounds (I would actually weigh it on a scale to confirm before purchasing).

Assuming that the towing capacity is just barely under the maximum, is this still not a good idea? We don't plan on towing it too often for very long distances or over large mountain passes frequently, but I also don't want to feel like we are limited if/when we do want to go somewhere with the boat. Would we potentially have any issues pulling the boat of the water on a stepper ramp? We also have 2 young kids so I want to prioritize safety above all else.

Honestly, I don't have any real experience towing boats so I'm hoping someone here can steer us in the right direction:

Here are the options I see:

• Option A: Stick with the explorer and purchased the preferred boat. We'll be fine as long as we're under the towing capacity limit.
• Option B: Find a smaller boat (i.e 21 footer) that would bring our towing capacity down to 4,200-4,300 lbs.
• Option C: Upgrade our Explorer to a larger SUV with more towing capacity (e.g. a Tahoe/Expedition)

Based on our driveway situation, we only have space for 1 "bigger" car right now and that also needs to be our family car (i.e SUV).

Appreciate any helpful input to help us make a decision!

Thanks,

Jordan

Hi Jordan,  I do it.  I've towed my 2001 Sunsetter 22' boat with our 2013 Pilot rated at 4500 and have driven up to 2 hours without an issue for the last 5 years.   Our boat weighs 4200 with gas and skis in it (i checked)    I also towed with a 2008 Explorer (did even better than the Pilot)  but that one had a frame.   Sadly i lost that truck this year in an accident and I've replaced with with a 2016 Pathfinder - it tows better than our Pilot but a lot softer springs make it squat.   Like others have said get a good ball mount with at least 6000 lbs rating on the ball.   

I might get flack but we tow near the limit but  I would not tow any of these boats with front wheel drive - so if your explorer is not 4x4 i wouldn't do it, just too sketchy at the ramp.    one last things make sure your trailer brakes are working properly.

Edited October 27, 2023 by SkiPablo