Towing right at vehicle's suggested capacity...a bad idea?

[Jordan22]

Soon to be first-time boat owner here. I've spent many hours reading these message boards the the couple months and figured it was time to hop on and ask my own question

So, here's our situation...The largest vehicle we currently have is a 2021 Ford Explorer (5,300 towing capacity).

Currently, my preferred option (within budget) is 2003 Wakesetter LSV (23'). With the trailer and a quarter tank of gas it would seemingly be right around 5,000 pounds (I would actually weigh it on a scale to confirm before purchasing).

Assuming that the towing capacity is just barely under the maximum, is this still not a good idea? We don't plan on towing it too often for very long distances or over large mountain passes frequently, but I also don't want to feel like we are limited if/when we do want to go somewhere with the boat. Would we potentially have any issues pulling the boat of the water on a stepper ramp? We also have 2 young kids so I want to prioritize safety above all else.

Honestly, I don't have any real experience towing boats so I'm hoping someone here can steer us in the right direction:

Here are the options I see:

• Option A: Stick with the explorer and purchased the preferred boat. We'll be fine as long as we're under the towing capacity limit.
• Option B: Find a smaller boat (i.e 21 footer) that would bring our towing capacity down to 4,200-4,300 lbs.
• Option C: Upgrade our Explorer to a larger SUV with more towing capacity (e.g. a Tahoe/Expedition)

Based on our driveway situation, we only have space for 1 "bigger" car right now and that also needs to be our family car (i.e SUV).

Appreciate any helpful input to help us make a decision!

Thanks,

Jordan

[GaleK]

IMO, towing at capacity is still within capacity! Stay up on all regular maintenance on the tow rig (especially transmission), watch your temps, don't try to break any speed records (in other words, go easy on the tow rig), keep the boat lightly loaded. Remember loading down the tow rig with a bunch of gear will impact things, too. So don't expect to pack the rig to the ceiling with stuff.

As far as the ramp--should be ok as long as you have traction. Is the Explorer all wheel drive? (seems like most these days are). If yes, that will help at at steep ramp for sure.

If it's occasionally as you state, probably be fine. If you were doing heavy duty long distance trips on a really regular basis, you might want to consider something with higher capacities for extra measure. If it's short distances typically, you'll probably be fine. "Bigger is better" when it comes to towing. More capacity is better than less. But you're still within capacity.

Personally, I would not change my desired boat purchase based on the tow rig. I'd change the tow rig if I felt like I was at the upper limit and I wanted more safety margin.

[Cole2001]

Are you planning on trailering to the lake or are you leaving it in a slip for the summer? If you’re leaving it in a slip I wouldn’t be as concerned, see how the explorer handles or have your local dealer pickup and deliver your boat (most will do this). If you’re trailering every time I would probably look at something with a bit more capacity, the explorer will definitely know it’s back there. 

[Steve B.]

I'd suggest a bigger tow vehicle. You're going to end up taking a lot more stuff with you. Tools, coolers, toys, etc. Enjoy !

[CaptainMorgan]

while i agree that within limits is ok, you are already have your finger on the scale (ha, see what i did there) by assuming things like a 1/4 tank of gas to get 'inside' your capacity and TBD what your trailer assumed weight really is.  adding 50 gal of fuel is another 300 lbs immediately and its easy to add hundreds of pounds of stuff to a boat as well (spare trailer tire, toys, ropes, safety equipment, ballast bags), let along the people riding in the car that can affect your towing capacity (friends, family, food/drinks, etc).

if rarely towing and right on the edge, could do a super-light config and use a chase car with stuff/people...but its definitely going to be a consideration each time you hook up.

if you are first time boat owner, i'd lean towards Option B -- a 21ft boat can be a great option for small families to have fun and will have room to take friends along.  Lets you be sure this whole boating adventure is what you think it'll be before you drop more money on a boat and even more on a monster SUV.  Once you know how the boat will be used (sports/activities, bodies of water, features you like), then you can make a better decision on boat size/type/tow-rig.  

[shawndoggy]

I’ll go with option C. Just get a larger tow vehicle. 
 

the early 2000s 23s aren’t really that big. Smaller / lighter / narrower than a 22’ axis that’s for sure. 

[wedge88]

Here's some more info that you may not be considering.  Think about the boat ramps that the boat will be launched at.  

I was helping my cousin winterize his 21VLX yesterday and had to put the boat back in the water because it wasn't aligned right on trailer after initial load.  I was driving his F150 Lariat 4wd and had the truck in 4wd.  Ramp was asphalt and minimal slope compared to what we see all season and the boat drug me back about 20' which caused pretty good "pucker" on the way down.  This truck is well within the tow range for this boat but it was an experience I didn't care for.

For the record, I tow with HD vehicles so this was something I haven't experienced but could see it as an issue on steep or slippery ramps with a lower capacity vehicle.  We all enjoy watching those videos on YouTube of TVs being pulled down the ramp but I'd prefer not to be in one of them.

[Jordan22]

Wow, thanks so much you all!

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

while i agree that within limits is ok, you are already have your finger on the scale (ha, see what i did there) by assuming things like a 1/4 tank of gas to get 'inside' your capacity and TBD what your trailer assumed weight really is.  adding 50 gal of fuel is another 300 lbs immediately and its easy to add hundreds of pounds of stuff to a boat as well (spare trailer tire, toys, ropes, safety equipment, ballast bags), let along the people riding in the car that can affect your towing capacity (friends, family, food/drinks, etc).

if rarely towing and right on the edge, could do a super-light config and use a chase car with stuff/people...but its definitely going to be a consideration each time you hook up.

if you are first time boat owner, i'd lean towards Option B -- a 21ft boat can be a great option for small families to have fun and will have room to take friends along.  Lets you be sure this whole boating adventure is what you think it'll be before you drop more money on a boat and even more on a monster SUV.  Once you know how the boat will be used (sports/activities, bodies of water, features you like), then you can make a better decision on boat size/type/tow-rig.  

Dumb question...but do passengers and cargo also count toward towing capacity? I thought that would be payload capacity?

For reference, here is the boat I'm looking at which has a 3,500 dry weight: https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/d/portland-malibu-wakesetter-lsv-23/7669364042.html

Alternatively, a 21' VLX (like this one) would cut off 500 lbs (3,000 dry weight) to get more safely under our capacity. However, would the 500 pounds even be enough to make a real difference? Would we still be able to load up the family and take a longer trip with the boat or would that still be a challenge?

If it wouldn't make that much of a difference, maybe we just stick with the 23' LSV and understand that we will be limited to short/local towing until we up-size our towing vehicle to be able to do "out of town" trips?

 

 

 

 

[Jordan22]

2 minutes ago, wedge88 said:

Here's some more info that you may not be considering.  Think about the boat ramps that the boat will be launched at.  

I was helping my cousin winterize his 21VLX yesterday and had to put the boat back in the water because it wasn't aligned right on trailer after initial load.  I was driving his F150 Lariat 4wd and had the truck in 4wd.  Ramp was asphalt and minimal slope compared to what we see all season and the boat drug me back about 20' which caused pretty good "pucker" on the way down.  This truck is well within the tow range for this boat but it was an experience I didn't care for.

For the record, I tow with HD vehicles so this was something I haven't experienced but could see it as an issue on steep or slippery ramps with a lower capacity vehicle.  We all enjoy watching those videos on YouTube of TVs being pulled down the ramp but I'd prefer not to be in one of them.

Wow, thanks for sharing. However, I wonder if this was more of an issue with tire traction than towing capacity?

[Jordan22]

8 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Are you planning on trailering to the lake or are you leaving it in a slip for the summer? If you’re leaving it in a slip I wouldn’t be as concerned, see how the explorer handles or have your local dealer pickup and deliver your boat (most will do this). If you’re trailering every time I would probably look at something with a bit more capacity, the explorer will definitely know it’s back there. 

Mostly leaving at a slip during the summer, but I'd like to have the option to take it out to go on some weekend trips with it.

[CaptainMorgan]

30 minutes ago, Jordan22 said:

Wow, thanks so much you all!

Dumb question...but do passengers and cargo also count toward towing capacity? I thought that would be payload capacity?

For reference, here is the boat I'm looking at which has a 3,500 dry weight: https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/d/portland-malibu-wakesetter-lsv-23/7669364042.html

Alternatively, a 21' VLX (like this one) would cut off 500 lbs (3,000 dry weight) to get more safely under our capacity. However, would the 500 pounds even be enough to make a real difference? Would we still be able to load up the family and take a longer trip with the boat or would that still be a challenge?

If it wouldn't make that much of a difference, maybe we just stick with the 23' LSV and understand that we will be limited to short/local towing until we up-size our towing vehicle to be able to do "out of town" trips?

can read up on towing basics on links like: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/towing-capacity-guide/, but as sneak preview

"While manufacturers will publish a towing capacity for each vehicle they build, it’s important to note that calculations assume that the tow vehicle is carrying only a driver. If you plan to tow a travel trailer and bring along your family and all the associated gear they’ll need for a weekend away, the manufacturer’s calculations will not be accurate for your load."

[CaptainMorgan]

given your slip-focused use, you can probably *get away* with towing that boat to/from a ramp 2x/yr by yourself...but any weekend trips sound like a bridge too far (and even for that 2x/yr, i'd ask around for a friend with a truck).

i can't see link to craiglist (blocked at work), but before you buy a tow-rig to accommodate a 20yr old boat, i'd do more soul searching about what your boating needs/plans are.  Should be lots of used stuff hitting the market with motivated sellers, i wouldn't feel pressured into making a decision too quickly.   

[Bozboat]

You mentioned having younger kids and this being a first boat…obviously take the kids out of the tow vehicle before you back down the ramp.

[Jordan22]

5 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

You mentioned having younger kids and this being a first boat…obviously take the kids out of the tow vehicle before you back down the ramp.

Totally, thanks for the reminder. I hope that everyone with young kids does this. I've seen enough videos of ramp failures. I'd like to think I'll never be one of them but it's certainly not worth the risk of leaving kids in the car.

[jjackkrash]

Regardless of how the math shakes out and the steps you take to cut weight, I do not believe you will enjoy the towing experience when you do tow on any of the boats you are looking at.  But tolerance for towing stress and anxiety is personal and tough to gauge in a forum like this.  My personal tolerance for white knuckles has waned a bunch over the years.    

[Jordan22]

29 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Regardless of how the math shakes out and the steps you take to cut weight, I do not believe you will enjoy the towing experience when you do tow on any of the boats you are looking at.  But tolerance for towing stress and anxiety is personal and tough to gauge in a forum like this.  My personal tolerance for white knuckles has waned a bunch over the years.    

With that in mind, do you even think a Tahoe or Expedition with 7,000-8,000 towing capacity will even make enough of a difference?

[stang233]

If you are towing far you will burn up the tranny. I would move on from the explorer before you burn something up and you lose any value in it. I have 23lsv and they are much heavier than the dry weight listed.   I bet a 23lsv with trailer is 6k easy. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by stang233

[ChadFulton]

22 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Regardless of how the math shakes out and the steps you take to cut weight, I do not believe you will enjoy the towing experience when you do tow on any of the boats you are looking at.  But tolerance for towing stress and anxiety is personal and tough to gauge in a forum like this.  My personal tolerance for white knuckles has waned a bunch over the years.    

+1 on this.

We have towed our 01 VLX 21' with our '15 Yukon and now '17 Yukon XL. The Yukons are fine for the 3 miles from our driveway to the ramp, but out of town or through the mountains would be a huge pain. It is well within the towing capacity, but no fun. Any further and I'm taking my Silverado 1500, which feels much more stable than our Yukons, due to the longer wheelbase and suspension.

I cannot imagine regularly towing a similar or larger boat with a mid size SUV. 

[ChadFulton]

6 minutes ago, Jordan22 said:

With that in mind, do you even think a Tahoe or Expedition with 7,000-8,000 towing capacity will even make enough of a difference?

Any full-size SUV will be MUCH better than an explorer, especially a suburban/yukon xl or expedition max. Longer wheel base and heavier tow vehicle will make for a more stable drive down the road. But the shorter ones are still sufficient.

I just got my Silverado a month ago. Prior to that, for the last 3 years all we have had to tow has been the yukon and yukon xl. It was the best "jack of all trades" car for us that could fit the whole family and be a bit of a work horse.

As @jjackkrash said, tolerance for towing stress and anxiety is personal. 

[Jordan22]

13 minutes ago, ChadFulton said:

Any full-size SUV will be MUCH better than an explorer, especially a suburban/yukon xl or expedition max. Longer wheel base and heavier tow vehicle will make for a more stable drive down the road. But the shorter ones are still sufficient.

I just got my Silverado a month ago. Prior to that, for the last 3 years all we have had to tow has been the yukon and yukon xl. It was the best "jack of all trades" car for us that could fit the whole family and be a bit of a work horse.

As @jjackkrash said, tolerance for towing stress and anxiety is personal. 

Thanks again, this has all been really helpful. I would say my tolerance for anxiety is low (especially with family) so I think that makes the decision clear. I think we'll probably still focus on getting our preferred boat, knowing that the Explorer can at least get it from storage to the local boat slip when summer rolls around, but if we're going to take it out of town anywhere then we'll need to upgrade to full size SUV.

[ChadFulton]

5 minutes ago, Jordan22 said:

Thanks again, this has all been really helpful. I would say my tolerance for anxiety is low (especially with family) so I think that makes the decision clear. I think we'll probably still focus on getting our preferred boat, knowing that the Explorer can at least get it from storage to the local boat slip when summer rolls around, but if we're going to take it out of town anywhere then we'll need to upgrade to full size SUV.

I know someone who only has a sedan and when needing to tow, they rent a pick up truck. For them, renting was not only much less expensive than upgrading vehicles, but more suited to their lifestyle (didn't want to daily a large SUV or truck).

Regardless, congrats on the decision! Our boat was our first. Our kids are now 5, 3, 1, with #4 on the way. The memories made as a family on the water and the opportunity to teach kids responsibility through boating is something I wouldn't trade!

[dizzygti]

With only 3 miles to the ramp, assuming minimal elevation changes, you'll be ok.    The fact that you are wanting to have the option to tow on vacations says you will be upgrading eventually.   I tow my T250 with my F150 that is rated at 12K lbs.   It's stills stressful to a degree, even being well under the tow rating, and that is for the 3 miles from my storage lot to the boat ramp.   The stability just isn't there and you can feel it.   Having that additional level of stress for hours of towing would not be pleasant.  

[tvano]

devils advocate here.

consider an accident on that one occasion you are slightly over the line. 

you may be giving your insurance company the opportunity to deny your claim. 

[butter71]

7 hours ago, Jordan22 said:

Dumb question...but do passengers and cargo also count toward towing capacity? I thought that would be payload capacity?

To answer this it's helpful to know the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), gross combined weight rating (GCWR), and curb weight of the vehicle.  GVWR is the maximum weight rating of the vehicle, passengers, and cargo.  Payload capacity is just GVWR - curb weight.  GCWR is the maximum weight rating of the vehicle, passengers, cargo, and trailer.  You'd think GCWR would just be GVWR plus the towing capacity, but usually it's not.

In your case, based on the info you gave and a google search, the GVWR and GCWR for your Explorer are 6,160 lbs, and 10,100 lbs respectively, and your curb weight is 4,345 lbs.  You can plug in your own numbers, if I've got these wrong, but the general point will be the same.

Your payload capacity is GVWR - curb weight = 1,815 lbs, and your towing capacity is 5,300 lbs.  If you max both of these out (curb weight + payload capacity + towing capacity = GVWR + towing capacity = 11,460 lbs), you'll exceed the GCWR by 1,360 lbs.  So if you tow at the maximum towing capacity, your payload capacity is effectively reduced to only 455 lbs.  Or if you max out your payload, your towing capacity is effectively reduced to 3,940 lbs.  So yes, passengers and cargo can cut into your towing capacity, or vice versa, as you approach the limits of one and/or the other.

Regardless, it sounds like you've already you've already landed on the reasonable conclusion that you're probably ok for short distance, infrequent towing, but might be sketchy for longer distance, frequent towing, depending what the actual loaded vehicle and trailer weight is.  For reference, my 2000 LSV is basically the same size/weight as the LSV you're considering, our vehicle is rated to tow 6,200 lbs, and I'm pretty comfortable with it, even for trips of several hundred miles, with significant passengers and gear, over a mountain pass or two.

I'll also add a plug to stick with the LSV over the VLX.  (The one you're looking at is a beautiful boat!).  Long story, but I was originally looking for an early model VLX, but ended up with an LSV, and we absolutely love the extra space in the boat.

Best of luck!

[oldjeep]

Ok.  In all seriousness 1/2 to vs 3/4 ton on a steep tow ramp.  How much do you think it makes a difference? There is at most a 600lb difference in max curb weight.

Couple of your fat friends in the half ton and you are even.

Edited October 23, 2023 by oldjeep