OEM DSP Trouble Shooting Guide

[Ronnie]

This should open a can of worms....

Follow along here.

[dizzygti]

So what is the "tune"?   A flash update to the amps based on what?    The size/number/locations of speakers?   As unhelpful and uninformed as dealers seem, this feels like it would be over the heads of my service department if I even asked.    

[hethj7]

I sort of get the reasoning they don't let you tune them, but why not just release a tool to tune and sell with an acknowledgment it voids your warranty from Wetsounds?   I bet the actual number of owners that would actually do it would be small, and the number of owners that would make a warranty claim for a blown component after doing it would be even smaller.  The cost in reputation and admin time to deny these claims would likely be very small to Malibu/WS.  The goodwill and the markup you could charge on a DSP tuner would offset the negatives in my mind.  Of course, then they can't sell you a traditional, tunable amp at an even larger markup.  

You can buy a supercharger from Ford Performance and install it aftermarket, but you lose your warranty.   Sorry I'm ranting, but why treat the customers like toddlers - let them choose if they want to supercharge their stereo and take on the warranty risk.    It is just funny to me that both auto and marine OEM's lock down the stereo, but provide parts to blow up your $20,000 engine or basically modify any other part of your vehicle, but the stereo's remain too much of a liability to touch.   

 

[hethj7]

And while I'm at it, my reply to the original WS post above that "OEM DSP are not good" is true as they currently ship.    Fix the QC with your boat manufacturers so that it is no longer the case that "many boats are found to either not be tuned or improperly tuned" (they are damaging your brand) and then you state power output is the same as traditional amps, but the tune in a DSP amp is locking it down.   And if you are going to strike a a deal with OEM's to factory supply your amp and DSP, write in requirements that you also supply the source unit or provide a spec for what line voltage your components expect to see as part of the deal.  Don't just blame the other guy for not loading a tune or not supplying the proper voltage.   

Sorry, I'm cranky this morning - too many companies and people these days that don't take accountability for their products and actions

[granddaddy55]

my discounted msrp (priced 2nd qtr21 delivered 3rd qtr 21) for 8 8’s, two tower 10’s and a non ported boxed 15 sub and two amps was $2500-2800 plus sales tax.  i am never gonna complain and i am very happy with the sound.  a software update increased the voltage output 15% snd it got better.  i may ride this setup the 20 yrs or less it takes to pay for it.  try doing a stereo delete order in 21 or now.  the parts alone will be double!!!!!!!! what i paid

so quit complaining!

Edited October 5, 2023 by granddaddy55

[hethj7]

1 hour ago, granddaddy55 said:

my discounted msrp (priced 2nd qtr21 delivered 3rd qtr 21) for 8 8’s, two tower 10’s and a non ported boxed 15 sub and two amps was $2500-2800 plus sales tax.  i am never gonna complain and i am very happy with the sound.  a software update increased the voltage output 15% snd it got better.  i may ride this setup the 20 yrs or less it takes to pay for it.  try doing a stereo delete order in 21 or now.  the parts alone will be double!!!!!!!! what i paid

so quit complaining!

You're making my point in a way.  For 95% of the buyers, the factory options are fine on all these models and brands.  But for those that want to upgrade, they are throwing $ at it and replacing amps that physically can give the output the customer desires in a new setup, but can't since they are locked digitally.  

 

Honest question as I don't know - Did you pay $2800 for all that, or does Centurion have a base stereo in their base MSRP, and that was the upgrade price from base to what you ended up with?   From what I think I understand, Malibu is one of the few manufacturers whose base MSRP is basically just a hull and engine.  Stereo, tower, surfgates, etc. are all add-ons.   

[shawndoggy]

I've always been curious about "turning up the gain" on a dsp amp by adding more signal voltage on the input side.  sounds like from that thread it would work.  Seems like a diligent tuner might even be able to flatten out a dsp tune with appropriate changes to an input signal curve (dsp in).  But that doesn't really make a lot of economic sense.  An audiocontrol matrix isn't that expensive tho.

[granddaddy55]

On 10/5/2023 at 12:02 PM, hethj7 said:

You're making my point in a way.  For 95% of the buyers, the factory options are fine on all these models and brands.  But for those that want to upgrade, they are throwing $ at it and replacing amps that physically can give the output the customer desires in a new setup, but can't since they are locked digitally.  

 

Honest question as I don't know - Did you pay $2800 for all that, or does Centurion have a base stereo in their base MSRP, and that was the upgrade price from base to what you ended up with?   From what I think I understand, Malibu is one of the few manufacturers whose base MSRP is basically just a hull and engine.  Stereo, tower, surfgates, etc. are all add-ons.   

option.  even base stereo with just 8 8’s and an amp was an option.  this is the first upgrade option. option price msrp i believe was $3-3300  and i had a discount about 18% paying $25- $2800. again look at my order time frame (ordered by someone else who walked) , time was  before the real aggressive price and material inflation that happened in the industry and everywhere. dealer honored negotiated price of other party that ordered boat in 2nd qtr 21

 

[granddaddy55]

On 10/5/2023 at 3:22 PM, shawndoggy said:

I've always been curious about "turning up the gain" on a dsp amp by adding more signal voltage on the input side.  sounds like from that thread it would work.  Seems like a diligent tuner might even be able to flatten out a dsp tune with appropriate changes to an input signal curve (dsp in).  But that doesn't really make a lot of economic sense.  An audiocontrol matrix isn't that expensive tho.

we got a 2023 software update in my 22 that provided 15% more voltage snd it helped.  most went to separate HU to gain better signal from ICE (source for centurion) or had line driver installed as mentioned in the post. but most who did that changed the amps as well

[granddaddy55]

On 10/5/2023 at 12:02 PM, hethj7 said:

You're making my point in a way.  For 95% of the buyers, the factory options are fine on all these models and brands.  But for those that want to upgrade, they are throwing $ at it and replacing amps that physically can give the output the customer desires in a new setup, but can't since they are locked digitally.  

 

Honest question as I don't know - Did you pay $2800 for all that, or does Centurion have a base stereo in their base MSRP, and that was the upgrade price from base to what you ended up with?   From what I think I understand, Malibu is one of the few manufacturers whose base MSRP is basically just a hull and engine.  Stereo, tower, surfgates, etc. are all add-ons.   

the RI’s had base options as the higher end boat but it was things like base Gator step (everywhere including gunnels and any low vertical wall in cabin and bow   -just not triple layer and centurion graphics -double layer with just one name logo in boat and one on swim deck) and drop zone power tower, nav in the screen system, docking lights and complete lighting with logos everywhere inside snd outside of boat

Edited October 7, 2023 by granddaddy55

[Brandonloos21]

This was a weird post by wetsounds. They claim that the amplifiers have custom tunes made for them to get the most output from the , yet also claim that if you want more to add a linedriver? If you know how audio works, this does not make sense. 

Amplifier gain it just matching the input sensitivity to that of the headunit preamp output voltages, for the amplifier to be able to achieve its rated power. If gain is turned up above this point, it will drive the amplifier to clip and this distortion will play through speakers, leading to failure due to heat. 

If said dsp amplifiers are “custom tuned to the applications”, that means that they would be tuned to the headunit preamp voltages coming into the amps. So with this being said, adding a line driver (boosting that input voltage) will drive these amplifiers to clip.

It seems that they have either made a false claim that these amplifiers are tuned to their specific applications, or that they are not turned down as we have been saying (and noticing) for years. 

In addition, they are claiming there are different tunes for these amplifiers. Us Malibu/axis owners have been asking and investigating for years, and found that there are no tunes for the HTX/SYNDX/SDX amplifiers (2017-2022). The tunes they are talking about are for the new series amplifiers (2023+). These all came out with wrong (super turned down) tunes, leading a lot of (high paying) customers left unsatisfied with their 10k+ stereo options.

It seems as this post was a response to a fire being lit under their butt from all of the recent complaints, and last complaints (which is more of a Malibu problem than wetsounds, Malibu wanted an OEM product, wetsounds sold them it). 

[Brandonloos21]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:09 AM, granddaddy55 said:

my discounted msrp (priced 2nd qtr21 delivered 3rd qtr 21) for 8 8’s, two tower 10’s and a non ported boxed 15 sub and two amps was $2500-2800 plus sales tax.  i am never gonna complain and i am very happy with the sound.  a software update increased the voltage output 15% snd it got better.  i may ride this setup the 20 yrs or less it takes to pay for it.  try doing a stereo delete order in 21 or now.  the parts alone will be double!!!!!!!! what i paid

so quit complaining!

Huh? So you’re saying your Malibu/axis boat with 8 revo 8’s, 2 rev 10’s, and a subwoofer, ran you 2800 after tax? I think you may have miscounted. My 8 revo 8’s and 12” sub in my 2022 Malibu were >5k discounted pretax. 

Also 15” sub isn’t an option. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Brandonloos21

[dizzygti]

10 hours ago, Brandonloos21 said:

In addition, they are claiming there are different tunes for these amplifiers. Us Malibu/axis owners have been asking and investigating for years, and found that there are no tunes for the HTX/SYNDX/SDX amplifiers (2017-2022). The tunes they are talking about are for the new series amplifiers (2023+). These all came out with wrong (super turned down) tunes, leading a lot of (high paying) customers left unsatisfied with their 10k+ stereo options.

 

So how would one verify if they have the wrong or correct tune?   

[MLA]

54 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

So how would one verify if they have the wrong or correct tune?   

In a 2017 to 2022 with the amps that are DSP versions of the retail amps, you can simply load the latest and greatest available tune. With the new OEM setup, there is a black box media unit and amp(s) (all from the audio manufacture). The amps are basically full-range and the DSP is now done in the black box. IIRC, the tune is now readable on the helm screen, or at least thats coming in the next step. So like the screen software, ECM software, the audio software will be viewed on the screen and compared to the latest published update for that boat/system option level. 

[dizzygti]

59 minutes ago, MLA said:

In a 2017 to 2022 with the amps that are DSP versions of the retail amps, you can simply load the latest and greatest available tune. With the new OEM setup, there is a black box media unit and amp(s) (all from the audio manufacture). The amps are basically full-range and the DSP is now done in the black box. IIRC, the tune is now readable on the helm screen, or at least thats coming in the next step. So like the screen software, ECM software, the audio software will be viewed on the screen and compared to the latest published update for that boat/system option level. 

Was hoping that was the case, will have to verify next time I'm in the boat.  

[Brandonloos21]

2 hours ago, dizzygti said:

So how would one verify if they have the wrong or correct tune?   

This is the confusing part, where they left us hanging!

If you have a 2017-2022 boat, your tune is right (there are no other tunes)

If you have a 2023+ boat, work with your dealer and they can make sure and get you the needed tune if it doesn’t already have it!

[dizzygti]

7 minutes ago, Brandonloos21 said:

If you have a 2023+ boat, work with your dealer and they can make sure and get you the needed tune if it doesn’t already have it!

Dreaded advice, but that's the plan.   I have sound pack 3 with 12" sub and 2 pairs of Rev 10's, and it gets "loud" but the bass is lacking, and quality breaks down quickly at moderate volumes.   

[Brandonloos21]

17 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

Dreaded advice, but that's the plan.   I have sound pack 3 with 12" sub and 2 pairs of Rev 10's, and it gets "loud" but the bass is lacking, and quality breaks down quickly at moderate volumes.   

What year? Half of the bass issue is the enclosure. If you’re willing to build a proper enclosure or replace that 12 and build a new sub a proper enclosure, you’ll be much happier with bass.  

[dizzygti]

19 minutes ago, Brandonloos21 said:

What year? Half of the bass issue is the enclosure. If you’re willing to build a proper enclosure or replace that 12 and build a new sub a proper enclosure, you’ll be much happier with bass.  

Yeah...I know.   It's a 2023, and Axis has the sub bolted to the helm.   I've seen some of the threads here doing what you say, but they were all Malibu's so a different beast as far as this potential upgrade goes.   This is my first boat, I'm not itching to cut the helm open as I realistically don't even know how long I'll be keeping this boat.   Any upgrades that intense will be way down the line if at all.   If getting the tune corrected gave me ~15% "more", I'd be happier than I am now!  

Edited October 11, 2023 by dizzygti

[Brandonloos21]

3 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

Yeah...I know.   It's a 2023, and Axis has the sub bolted to the helm.   I've seen some of the threads here doing what you say, but they were all Malibu's so a different beast as far as this potential upgrade goes.   This is my first boat, I'm not itching to cut the helm open as I realistically don't even know how long I'll be keeping this boat.   Any upgrades that intense will be way down the line if at all.   If getting the tune corrected gave me ~15% "more", I'd be happier than I am now!  

Can also look into adding an extra sub in the observers comp!

[teamerickson]

So I’ve had 3 Malibu/Axis boats with the DSP amps. A 2017 23LSV (first year dsp), a 2019 A22 and now a 2023 A24. The A24 has way better bass than the previous boats. It pounds pretty good! I do wish I could adjust the treble more though. 

[dizzygti]

15 minutes ago, teamerickson said:

So I’ve had 3 Malibu/Axis boats with the DSP amps. A 2017 23LSV (first year dsp), a 2019 A22 and now a 2023 A24. The A24 has way better bass than the previous boats. It pounds pretty good! I do wish I could adjust the treble more though. 

No prior experience, but in my 2023 I typically add +0.7 to the zone control for the sub and +0.5 for the tower to get "decent" sound.   If no one is riding/surfing, the bump on the sub is almost necessary to even hear it.   

[WetSoundsTech]

16 hours ago, Brandonloos21 said:

This was a weird post by wetsounds. They claim that the amplifiers have custom tunes made for them to get the most output from the , yet also claim that if you want more to add a linedriver? If you know how audio works, this does not make sense.

                   Re read what we posted.  We tune the systems for a OEM source/screen.  If the source has the same output on every unit and the proper tune was loaded at the factory. Then the performance will be spot on.  If the screen does NOT have the proper output voltage.  The system will not perform to its fullest. Step one is Updating the tune to the proper factory tune will make sure the right tune was loaded. If that still doesn’t get the system to the volume level.  Then Adding a line driver and adjusting it to a clean output level is the easiest and cheapest solution because you might have a source with lower output than what the tunes were based off of.  For too long people have said these were de tuned which is not the case.  There are variables out of our control like wrong tune loaded, no tune loaded, weaker output voltage on the source that affect the outcome.  Taking these steps is the easiest and simplest way to fix it.  Much cheaper than “swap the amp”  Putting in a more powerful tuneable amplifier works for some customers who are those who like to tweak.  So for those, go for it.  This is a guide for those customers who just want to enjoy the factory system.  Too many times we get caught up on these social media sites and feel this is the entire population of boat owners.  It is just not the case, many enjoy the system as is and are very happy with it.  Some want more bass and that’s why the aftermarket exists.  We are here to support both and trying to balance the two.

Amplifier gain it just matching the input sensitivity to that of the headunit preamp output voltages, for the amplifier to be able to achieve its rated power. If gain is turned up above this point, it will drive the amplifier to clip and this distortion will play through speakers, leading to failure due to heat. 

See above. 

If said dsp amplifiers are “custom tuned to the applications”, that means that they would be tuned to the headunit preamp voltages coming into the amps. So with this being said, adding a line driver (boosting that input voltage) will drive these amplifiers to clip.

See above.  When we tune a boat, we take one off the line and tune it.  Its tuned to match that output voltage of that unit.  After seeing issues, we are seeing there are variables across the platforms 

It seems that they have either made a false claim that these amplifiers are tuned to their specific applications, or that they are not turned down as we have been saying (and noticing) for years.

The systems were tuned to match OEM specifications/requirements and a source unit voltage.  No false claims made anywhere,  They were never turned down.  They were tuned to work with what input voltage was given and OEM specifications.,  You can only do so much with certain input voltages.  Which is why the new systems, we supply the source unit and control the signal from start to finish

In addition, they are claiming there are different tunes for these amplifiers. Us Malibu/axis owners have been asking and investigating for years, and found that there are no tunes for the HTX/SYNDX/SDX amplifiers (2017-2022). The tunes they are talking about are for the new series amplifiers (2023+). These all came out with wrong (super turned down) tunes, leading a lot of (high paying) customers left unsatisfied with their 10k+ stereo options.

The tunes available for the 17-22 are referring to the factory tunes.  There are multiple tunes based on boat model and stereo configuration.  Making sure the proper tune was loaded into the amps is step one.  There is no custom tune.  But making sure the amp was flashed to the right tune is step one.  We relaze there is no way to verify the tune.,  However, you can call us and we can ship you a tuning dongle to flash the amp.  It takes about 20 seconds.  On the 2023, Making sure the tunes are the right ones is step one. With the new updates on the screen, you can easily verify which tune is loaded.  The bass increase in the 2023 is substantial.  The overall output is huge.  The system should be the best sounding oem system on the market and if it isn’t.  Then get the proper tune.  Check the screen to see. 

It seems as this post was a response to a fire being lit under their butt from all of the recent complaints, and last complaints (which is more of a Malibu problem than wetsounds, Malibu wanted an OEM product, wetsounds sold them it).

The post was made because there are so many “experts” online telling people certain things that are not correct. 

 

 

New to the Group hopefully this will clear some stuff up my reply is in BOLD 

[dizzygti]

50 minutes ago, WetSoundsTech said:

New to the Group hopefully this will clear some stuff up my reply is in BOLD 

Thanks for the clarification.   Can you not share what tune(s) are spec'ed for which boats?   Or are there too many configurations?  

[WetSoundsTech]

1 minute ago, dizzygti said:

Thanks for the clarification.   Can you not share what tune(s) are spec'ed for which boats?   Or are there too many configurations?  

There are a lot of different option to find out what package you have you would want to reach out to your Boat dealer or our OEM team and provide your Hull#.