Midwest winter tow rigs

[SouthsideBoarder]

12 hours ago, kstateskier1 said:

I'm on my 4th F150.  When I was looking to replace my '15 3.5 Eco in '21 I looked at some Rams, including a pretty optioned out Longhorn.  Ended up back in my 4th Lariat.  I went with the 5.0 this time as I found one that was a good deal cheaper than the Eco and had every other option I wanted.  Personally, I'm just as happy with the 5.0 and with my driving style I don't get any worse mileage than I did on my '15.  Knock on wood, no major issues with any of my Fords other than I would skip the glass roof option even though I checked the box again on my '21.  Replaced the $15 roof rail for $2000 at the dealership on my '15 after they had to pull the seats.  It squeaks a lot as well.  Otherwise, went 147k on the 2015 and only replaced the Cats.  

 

I would encourage you to move up to the Lariat over the XLT for reasons other than the 4A if your budget allows.  I have pretty much a Platinum optioned Lariat outside of auto running boards and massage seats.  The toys are very nice on it.  

 

I'll also recommend Perkins MotorPlex in Paducah, KY if you look used.  Most hassle free experience I've ever had buying a car.  They delivered it ready to test drive, then 5 minutes of signing papers, and they were off with my trade in.  

Thanks. I would prefer a used lariat for the creature comforts but my budget is more of a used xlt or ram big horn budget. Seems like as far as options go money goes further with Ram. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

10 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

I had a 16 F150 with the 3.5 eco and no 4A. No issues just switching into 4H, was actually quite impressed with this truck in winter conditions. Was a great truck and it got worked HARD, regularly towed 10k, had 35" tires, catlass downpipes, Canadian winters, previous owner towed a 5th wheel... and had pretty much no issues 223k (KM). It started to develop a trans slip before I sold it but for the use and mileage cannot complain with zero turbo or rattle issues. If I had to pick a half ton for interior, comfort and performance would be the f150 for sure.  

Thanks. I’ve really liked the F-150s I have sat in and driven so far. Glad to know someone who lives in harsher winters than I finds the 4Hi and no 4A works well in winter. I obviously have just over thought it. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

12 minutes ago, justgary said:

Another (2020) F150 XLT with 3.5L EB here.  No winter to speak of, but I do engage 4H at boat ramps and in frog-choker rains when water is pooled everywhere on the roads.  It tows everything I have to tow with ease, and the ten-speed transmission combined with the turbo engine means that it has no issues passing or going up hills.

Thanks. The ecoboost trucks have been really fun to drive on the test drives so far. Nothing like hitting the gas and it just goes!

[justgary]

Just now, SouthsideBoarder said:

Thanks. The ecoboost trucks have been really fun to drive on the test drives so far. Nothing like hitting the gas and it just goes!

I'm still amazed at the pickup these pickups have (see how I did that?).   They also get reasonably good mileage if you can manage to slow down just a bit.  Wind drag is proportional to the square of speed, so any full-sized pickup is going to suffer at 80 MPH due to the frontal area.  I routinely get 24 MPG+ on my 12 mile commute through town, and about 28 MPG if I catch all of the lights green and can stay going 45 MPH.

If you tow a lot or have any trailer that is 8 feet wide (like a camper), replace your stock mirrors with towing mirrors.  I spent a few hundred bucks and bought the F250 mirrors.  It takes about five minutes per side to install them, and you can sell the old mirrors to get some of the cost back.  Depending on the packages you have on your truck, you may have to re-pin or buy a short adapter cable to get extra things going on the new mirrors.

[Slayer]

Auto 4WD was nice on my old F-150 Lariat 3.5EB.  I had been driving them since the first iteration of the EB and had 6 or 7 of them.  Great trucks and the EB is an awesome mill.  I did have one with the cam phaser issue but it was taken care of by the dealer under warranty.  It was my 2019 that I traded for my current Super Duty Tremor.  I don't miss 4WD auto in my Super Duty, FWIW.  I don't think it's a requirement. 

[rennis]

34 minutes ago, justgary said:

I'm still amazed at the pickup these pickups have (see how I did that?).   They also get reasonably good mileage if you can manage to slow down just a bit.  Wind drag is proportional to the square of speed, so any full-sized pickup is going to suffer at 80 MPH due to the frontal area.  I routinely get 24 MPG+ on my 12 mile commute through town, and about 28 MPG if I catch all of the lights green and can stay going 45 MPH.

If you tow a lot or have any trailer that is 8 feet wide (like a camper), replace your stock mirrors with towing mirrors.  I spent a few hundred bucks and bought the F250 mirrors.  It takes about five minutes per side to install them, and you can sell the old mirrors to get some of the cost back.  Depending on the packages you have on your truck, you may have to re-pin or buy a short adapter cable to get extra things going on the new mirrors.

The mirror comment here is a good one.  OP, if you buy a F150 and tow a lot I highly suggest looking for one that has the factory tow mirrors. Or upgrade as justgary suggests, but I am a sucker for full feature integration so be careful with that approach if you do.  I always wanted to upgrade the mirrors on my F150 but wanted the power folding feature and BLIS - and the factory units were prohibitively expensive to upgrade to after the fact.  So I never did. 

Again, you'll find that the Lariat and higher packages are going to have the better features for those mirrors, such as auto heating, dimming, power fold and extending, BLIS, etc.  Those are reallllllly nice to have, as someone who has had both.  The standard mirrors on the F150s are not great for towing.  

[SouthsideBoarder]

1 hour ago, justgary said:

I'm still amazed at the pickup these pickups have (see how I did that?).   They also get reasonably good mileage if you can manage to slow down just a bit.  Wind drag is proportional to the square of speed, so any full-sized pickup is going to suffer at 80 MPH due to the frontal area.  I routinely get 24 MPG+ on my 12 mile commute through town, and about 28 MPG if I catch all of the lights green and can stay going 45 MPH.

If you tow a lot or have any trailer that is 8 feet wide (like a camper), replace your stock mirrors with towing mirrors.  I spent a few hundred bucks and bought the F250 mirrors.  It takes about five minutes per side to install them, and you can sell the old mirrors to get some of the cost back.  Depending on the packages you have on your truck, you may have to re-pin or buy a short adapter cable to get extra things going on the new mirrors.

Yea. After a test drive I have a feeling at least for awhile I will get poor mileage from driving it like I stole it should I go that route. 
 

I will have to check into the mirrors. Thanks for the tip!

[SouthsideBoarder]

1 hour ago, Slayer said:

Auto 4WD was nice on my old F-150 Lariat 3.5EB.  I had been driving them since the first iteration of the EB and had 6 or 7 of them.  Great trucks and the EB is an awesome mill.  I did have one with the cam phaser issue but it was taken care of by the dealer under warranty.  It was my 2019 that I traded for my current Super Duty Tremor.  I don't miss 4WD auto in my Super Duty, FWIW.  I don't think it's a requirement. 

Greatly appreciate the feedback. Do you know if cam phaser issues have been resolved on the more recent years?

[Hemmy]

25 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Greatly appreciate the feedback. Do you know if cam phaser issues have been resolved on the more recent years?

On new models, yes.  I am not sure the fix on the years that had issues was completely resolved.  I believe people got the cam phasers fixed and then the problem came back.

[Slayer]

52 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Greatly appreciate the feedback. Do you know if cam phaser issues have been resolved on the more recent years?

I believe this was corrected in model year 2021, IIRC.

25 minutes ago, Hemmy said:

On new models, yes.  I am not sure the fix on the years that had issues was completely resolved.  I believe people got the cam phasers fixed and then the problem came back.

This is also correct.  The repair was simply to replace the same component.  Talking with a friend who owns a shop in town, he claims that there are screens in the oil delivery system that contribute to this condition.  They get plugged up as the oil deteriorates and restrict flow to the phasers.  I don't know that to be correct or not, but that's what he claims.  His position was that adhering to the suggested oil change interval wasn't a good idea and that oil change intervals should be reduced to 3,500-5,000 miles vs the 7-7,500 per the manual.  This should be considered anecdotal as he's not a Ford mechanic but has worked on several of them with that issue over the years.   

[SouthsideBoarder]

1 hour ago, Slayer said:

I believe this was corrected in model year 2021, IIRC.

This is also correct.  The repair was simply to replace the same component.  Talking with a friend who owns a shop in town, he claims that there are screens in the oil delivery system that contribute to this condition.  They get plugged up as the oil deteriorates and restrict flow to the phasers.  I don't know that to be correct or not, but that's what he claims.  His position was that adhering to the suggested oil change interval wasn't a good idea and that oil change intervals should be reduced to 3,500-5,000 miles vs the 7-7,500 per the manual.  This should be considered anecdotal as he's not a Ford mechanic but has worked on several of them with that issue over the years.   

It makes sense. I’m no mechanic by any means. Kinda from what I’ve read and watched online is changing every 5,000 or 6 months regardless of oil life indicators or manufacturers recommendations and that should help with reliability of the engine. Oil is cheap, engines are not. 

[UWSkier]

3 hours ago, Slayer said:

Auto 4WD was nice on my old F-150 Lariat 3.5EB.  I had been driving them since the first iteration of the EB and had 6 or 7 of them.  Great trucks and the EB is an awesome mill.  I did have one with the cam phaser issue but it was taken care of by the dealer under warranty.  It was my 2019 that I traded for my current Super Duty Tremor.  I don't miss 4WD auto in my Super Duty, FWIW.  I don't think it's a requirement. 

I love the auto 4wd on my 2500HD!  Used it this morning. 

 

[oldjeep]

19 hours ago, RyanB said:

Good or bad, whatever you are reading here is purely anecdotal. You will find people who have had either great or poor experiences on just about everything. I’ve had a RAM 2012 3500 and now a 2023 3500 RAM and both interiors were flawless. 
 

Real issues might be a Hemi tick or the EcoBoost cam phaser rattle. I think the ecoboost rattle is a much more prevalent issue. I’ve owned many Hemi’s and never had a problem. I’ve owned one 3.5 EcoBoost and it has the rattle that Ford won’t acknowledge (even though the dealer says it is a problem). 
 

Regarding auto 4x4. I’d rather have it on a half ton Daily Driver,  but it wouldn’t be a requirement. 

My hemi has the "tick" since new (both of them) goes away after it warms up.  175K on the first one and 80K on the second so far.

[wdr]

My sons 2019 Ram did also and went away once warmed. I believe the hemi has an issue with manifold bolts breaking as well. Neither of my wife’s Chargers had that issue. 100k on the first one and 20k on the new one. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

5 hours ago, Slayer said:

Auto 4WD was nice on my old F-150 Lariat 3.5EB.  I had been driving them since the first iteration of the EB and had 6 or 7 of them.  Great trucks and the EB is an awesome mill.  I did have one with the cam phaser issue but it was taken care of by the dealer under warranty.  It was my 2019 that I traded for my current Super Duty Tremor.  I don't miss 4WD auto in my Super Duty, FWIW.  I don't think it's a requirement. 

Do you think your super duty is less noticeable in not missing auto because it’s larger and heavier or would your F-150 have been similar enough. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

1 hour ago, oldjeep said:

My hemi has the "tick" since new (both of them) goes away after it warms up.  175K on the first one and 80K on the second so far.

I’ve read some places that people have had luck quieting the ticking with different oil weight and using a blend instead of full synthetic?

Not sure how valid that is. I understand oil is not gonna help broken manifold bolts. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by SouthsideBoarder

[Slayer]

23 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Do you think your super duty is less noticeable in not missing auto because it’s larger and heavier or would your F-150 have been similar enough. 

I think it would be similar enough.  I don't think the size and weight is necessarily an advantage with respect to auto 4WD.

[oldjeep]

45 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

I’ve read some places that people have had luck quieting the ticking with different oil weight and using a blend instead of full synthetic?

Not sure how valid that is. I understand oil is not gonna help broken manifold bolts. 

Broken manifold bolts was a 2009-2010? Thing as far as I know.  Dodge replaced a few of them a few different times on my 09.

In terms of oil, my trucks only get the cheapest oil that Valvoline instant oil change sells.  A hemi is fine with bacon grease 

Edited October 4, 2023 by oldjeep

[SouthsideBoarder]

1 hour ago, oldjeep said:

Broken manifold bolts was a 2009-2010? Thing as far as I know.  Dodge replaced a few of them a few different times on my 09.

In terms of oil, my trucks only get the cheapest oil that Valvoline instant oil change sells.  A hemi is fine with bacon grease 

I read they changed the bolts or something for the manifolds but thought i read about 2019s and maybe 2020s still having some issues. 

[wakesonthesnake]

2 hours ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Do you think your super duty is less noticeable in not missing auto because it’s larger and heavier or would your F-150 have been similar enough. 

There is nothing worse on the ice than a 3/4, 1 ton pickup.  I will jump in my Expedition 10 out of ten times in bad weather unless I need to haul something.  I do like the auto 4wd but agree with the rest it is not a deal breaker.  Interesting though on the Expedition when you put it in sport mode it goes into auto 4wd.

[SurfNAZ]

I’m going to state the obvious and say that good tires with decent tread depth are a must for winter driving.  I drive two older trucks (2000 F350 w/ 7.3 and 2014 w/ 3.5 EB) and have never felt like I needed auto 4WD.  I’m sure it’s a nice upgrade, but not a necessity. 
 

Not relevant to this thread, but you all are good at being bad influences:  I am strongly considering buying a newer 5.0 F150 and adding a Whipple supercharger for 775 HP.

[rennis]

14 hours ago, SurfNAZ said:

 

Not relevant to this thread, but you all are good at being bad influences:  I am strongly considering buying a newer 5.0 F150 and adding a Whipple supercharger for 775 HP.

Allow me to be another devil on your shoulder.  Have you considered a F250 or F350 with the 6.7?  For pulling that T250 it's a much better platform than the F150.  775hp would be fun, but 1,050/1,200 torque is pretty freakin' great too lol

And night and day better at pulling a boat than the F150.  I'm never going back...

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, rennis said:

Allow me to be another devil on your shoulder.  Have you considered a F250 or F350 with the 6.7?  For pulling that T250 it's a much better platform than the F150.  775hp would be fun, but 1,050/1,200 torque is pretty freakin' great too lol

And night and day better at pulling a boat than the F150.  I'm never going back...

counterpoint -- aside from towing I totally miss the cushy ride of my F150 vs the F250.  When we decide to sell the boat, the F250 is going to go too.  I like having a truck for all kinds of reasons, but would definitely downsize to one that doesn't ride like a dumptruck.

[Slayer]

21 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

counterpoint -- aside from towing I totally miss the cushy ride of my F150 vs the F250.  When we decide to sell the boat, the F250 is going to go too.  I like having a truck for all kinds of reasons, but would definitely downsize to one that doesn't ride like a dumptruck.

To an extent, I agree with you.  However, I do know that there are aftermarket options that improve the ride dynamics of the Super Duty.  Carli comes to mind.  If I didn't have a Tremor, I'd likely do something similar to what @Stevo did with his truck.  Not as big as his, but something similar.  I'm sure he can offer comment on ride improvement.  All being said, I'm not at all unhappy with the ride in my truck.  I expected it to be worse than it is.  I don't see myself in another half ton anytime soon and I drive on trash southeastern Michigan roads.  Some of the worst around.

[UWSkier]

2 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

counterpoint -- aside from towing I totally miss the cushy ride of my F150 vs the F250.  When we decide to sell the boat, the F250 is going to go too.  I like having a truck for all kinds of reasons, but would definitely downsize to one that doesn't ride like a dumptruck.

Get a GM Heavy Duty.  The IFS is nice.  The ride quality difference between my Silverado 2500HD and my previous half ton Denali is much less pronounced than I expected.  I'd argue the dampening is even better in certain situations (crossing speed bumps, for instance).

Edited October 5, 2023 by UWSkier