Midwest winter tow rigs

[SouthsideBoarder]

Looking hard at  Ford F-150 and Ram 1500s and this will be my first full sized truck. 
 

Seems like a lot of the nice options for Ford you have to step up to Lariat trim to get where Ram they are available on Big Horn for similar pricing. For those who also live with Midwest winters how important do you feel the 4 auto is on these vehicles versus just switching back and forth with 4 high?  Is it worth going Ram Big Horn or Ford Lariat to have it? The F-150 in xlt doesn’t have 4 auto. Maybe I’m overthinking it?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Nick55]

I just told my daughter this weekend as we watched a 2wd truck trying to pull a pontoon out of the water……You couldn’t pay me to own a 2WD truck as a tow vehicle for a boat or in the winter here in the Midwest.  4wd is great but it isn’t the end all.  Auto mode isn’t that important, if you pay attention to your driving.  If you use it to get into a situation you get stuck in, you’re screwed.  
 

As for model and trim level, that’s a different discussion, and entirely a personal preference.  An optioned out XLT is pretty nice.  I have a Platinum mainly because it had the cameras I wanted and was available used when I was shopping.  But I’d have no problem with a different trim level.  I think the Ram is a nice truck but my friends haven’t had good durability with this latest model.  

[Hemmy]

23 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Looking hard at  Ford F-150 and Ram 1500s and this will be my first full sized truck. 
 

Seems like a lot of the nice options for Ford you have to step up to Lariat trim to get where Ram they are available on Big Horn for similar pricing. For those who also live with Midwest winters how important do you feel the 4 auto is on these vehicles versus just switching back and forth with 4 high?  Is it worth going Ram Big Horn or Ford Lariat to have it? The F-150 in xlt doesn’t have 4 auto. Maybe I’m overthinking it?

 

Thanks for your help!

I live in Northern Indiana and I use the toll road to get back and forth to work.  4A was a must for me with traveling on the toll road at higher speeds and also fuel consumption vs using full time 4H in these conditions.  There are also some highways that I use around me that have a tendency to be very slick in the winter.  4A is not going to stop you from sliding out, but makes it easier when accelerating from stops and changing lanes with snow on the road.  Just my opinion any way.  I know you may get some guys on here that will act holier than thou and tell you two wheel drive is just fine, but I'll take the different drive options any day of the week.

[SouthsideBoarder]

Thanks. I should clarify that no matter what whatever I get will have 4 wheel drive. Mostly just wondering if 4 auto is a mission critical or item I will regret not having in my arsenal of options. I would never own a 2 wheel rear wheel only truck up here. 

[Nick55]

I grew up in trucks being a farm kid.  This is my first one having an auto 4wd selection out of 4 or 5 trucks. I don’t think it’s mission critical myself.  My wife’s SUV is AWD but she understands how to use 4wd and she doesn’t find it an issue at all.  

[SouthsideBoarder]

5 minutes ago, Nick55 said:

I grew up in trucks being a farm kid.  This is my first one having an auto 4wd selection out of 4 or 5 trucks. I don’t think it’s mission critical myself.  My wife’s SUV is AWD but she understands how to use 4wd and she doesn’t find it an issue at all.  

Thanks. My hard part is buying a vehicle then wishing I had it. Found a fantastic deal on a crazy clean F-150 xlt with low miles. 

What kind of durability issues has your friends had with their Rams?

[BlindSquirrel]

I mean, do bad road conditions just sneak up on you where you need the truck to switch to 4x4 for you cause you don’t realize you need it? If so, then the auto feature will be of benefit. If not, the switch works on the fly, so shouldn’t be a huge deal just to turn it on when you need it. Use the money saved on that option for something cool.

Edited October 3, 2023 by BlindSquirrel

[SouthsideBoarder]

13 minutes ago, BlindSquirrel said:

I mean, do bad road conditions just sneak up on you where you need the truck to switch to 4x4 for you cause you don’t realize you need it? If so, then the auto feature will be of benefit. If not, the switch works on the fly, so shouldn’t be a huge deal just to turn it on when you need it. Use the money saved on that option for something cool.

Thanks. I’m probably overthinking it. Current ride is a front wheel drive sedan that I am very comfortable with in winter. I would like to think I am an observant and cautious driver. I definitely get passed and do not pass many when it’s getting bad out. Just when it’s starting to get snowy and icy in the winter or during a winter storm on the highway didn’t know if the automation was going to be clutch versus just driving cautiously in 2 high or switching it to 4high. 

[UWSkier]

I never had a truck with 4A until my 2016 Denali.  Just use your judgement.  If you're slip sliding around or things seem treacherous, punch the 4H button.  That said 4A is better at the boat ramp when going from slick to dry and making tight turns to park your truck/trailer.  4H will bind up.  4A will not.

[wdr]

15 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Thanks. My hard part is buying a vehicle then wishing I had it. Found a fantastic deal on a crazy clean F-150 xlt with low miles. 

What kind of durability issues has your friends had with their Rams?

My sons 2019 Ram 1500 other than the expected mpg had the electronic actuator for 4x4 go out. Other than that, it was a reliable vehicle. There is the dreaded “hemi cam failure” but neither his nor both of my wife’s Chargers had that issue. Solid maintenance kept that at bay I imagine. My 2020 2500 had the fuel pump CP4 replaced back to the CP3 under warranty. I do have a weepy transfer case to trans issue. But it is getting taken care of via the warranty. Didn’t think I would like a diesel as a DD, but I am getting better mileage out of it than my 6.2 Denali did. Obviously tows quite a bit better also. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

32 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

I never had a truck with 4A until my 2016 Denali.  Just use your judgement.  If you're slip sliding around or things seem treacherous, punch the 4H button.  That said 4A is better at the boat ramp when going from slick to dry and making tight turns to park your truck/trailer.  4H will bind up.  4A will not.

Thanks. That’s putting me more at ease with the decision. 

[oldjeep]

2 hours ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Looking hard at  Ford F-150 and Ram 1500s and this will be my first full sized truck. 
 

Seems like a lot of the nice options for Ford you have to step up to Lariat trim to get where Ram they are available on Big Horn for similar pricing. For those who also live with Midwest winters how important do you feel the 4 auto is on these vehicles versus just switching back and forth with 4 high?  Is it worth going Ram Big Horn or Ford Lariat to have it? The F-150 in xlt doesn’t have 4 auto. Maybe I’m overthinking it?

 

Thanks for your help!

My 2018 Ram Big Horn is the first 4wd pickup that I have ever owned, everything before that was 2wd.  The Auto setting is nice, I use it more on boat ramps than roads.

[SouthsideBoarder]

10 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

My 2018 Ram Big Horn is the first 4wd pickup that I have ever owned, everything before that was 2wd.  The Auto setting is nice, I use it more on boat ramps than roads.

Thanks. Good to know since we are in a similar climate. Reviews are fairly mixed for 4 auto on roads, some say it engages too late, others love it.

I’m keeping an eye on the prices at the big dealers up there. One of my buddies who is big into cars keeps telling me there’s a massive crash coming with student loan payments restarting but our area seems a little more sheltered than other parts of the country so unsure what if any crash our region would see. 

[Nick55]

My friends had an issue with the rear suspension, another had problems with the infotainment screen or something.  They both said that the interiors were awesome the first year then they started wearing out, both are 2020 and newer.  They may not be the cowboy Cadillac drivers Ram marketed to, but that shouldn’t happen either way on a pickup.  
 

Keep in mind you’re buying a vehicle going into prime season (like buying a boat in the spring).  You may be shopping a while.  That said, unless you have to have brand new, a certified used with the extended warranty can be a really good deal too.  They may have some miles but are usually better covered than one off the floor.  Whatever you do, don’t pay over sticker if you do buy new.  Like you said, with loans now out to 7 years for vehicles and interest rates sky high, there will be defaults soon and that will increase the used market and therefore lower your residual value. You will likely find more dealing going on in an XLT than a Lariat or higher as well.  If you need leather, you can have that added via Katskins later for reasonable. 

[oldjeep]

48 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Thanks. Good to know since we are in a similar climate. Reviews are fairly mixed for 4 auto on roads, some say it engages too late, others love it.

I’m keeping an eye on the prices at the big dealers up there. One of my buddies who is big into cars keeps telling me there’s a massive crash coming with student loan payments restarting but our area seems a little more sheltered than other parts of the country so unsure what if any crash our region would see. 

If you are looking for new, they are already running about 13K under MSRP for Big horns

https://www.jeffbelzer.com/searchnew.aspx?Make=RAM&Model=1500

[SouthsideBoarder]

34 minutes ago, Nick55 said:

My friends had an issue with the rear suspension, another had problems with the infotainment screen or something.  They both said that the interiors were awesome the first year then they started wearing out, both are 2020 and newer.  They may not be the cowboy Cadillac drivers Ram marketed to, but that shouldn’t happen either way on a pickup.  
 

Keep in mind you’re buying a vehicle going into prime season (like buying a boat in the spring).  You may be shopping a while.  That said, unless you have to have brand new, a certified used with the extended warranty can be a really good deal too.  They may have some miles but are usually better covered than one off the floor.  Whatever you do, don’t pay over sticker if you do buy new.  Like you said, with loans now out to 7 years for vehicles and interest rates sky high, there will be defaults soon and that will increase the used market and therefore lower your residual value. You will likely find more dealing going on in an XLT than a Lariat or higher as well.  If you need leather, you can have that added via Katskins later for reasonable. 

Thanks. That’s unfortunate on the Ram interiors. They look nice and shouldn’t be wearing out at 3-4 years. Yea. Trying to judge the market sucks. I am looking used and if I were buying new would refuse to pay over sticker. The whole default on car and loans thing versus auto workers strike is making things look interesting.

[oldjeep]

Just now, SouthsideBoarder said:

Thanks. That’s unfortunate on the Ram interiors. They look nice and shouldn’t be wearing out at 3-4 years. Yea. Trying to judge the market sucks. I am looking used and if I were buying new would refuse to pay over sticker. The whole default on car and loans thing versus auto workers strike is making things look interesting.

I had a 2009 and now a 2018 - have not managed to wear anything out in the interior.  I will say that mine are both cloth interiors, not a fan of leather.

[SouthsideBoarder]

Just now, oldjeep said:

If you are looking for new, they are already running about 13K under MSRP for Big horns

https://www.jeffbelzer.com/searchnew.aspx?Make=RAM&Model=1500

It’s crazy to think that in August of 2020 I almost bought a crew cab big horn well equipped just south of 40k. Now that same truck is $53k. Should’ve been wiser and pulled the trigger on that one. Kicking myself now. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

Just now, oldjeep said:

I had a 2009 and now a 2018 - have not managed to wear anything out in the interior.  I will say that mine are both cloth interiors, not a fan of leather.

That’s good to hear too. You would think they would be up in quality instead of down with the refresh in 2019. 

[RyanB]

Good or bad, whatever you are reading here is purely anecdotal. You will find people who have had either great or poor experiences on just about everything. I’ve had a RAM 2012 3500 and now a 2023 3500 RAM and both interiors were flawless. 
 

Real issues might be a Hemi tick or the EcoBoost cam phaser rattle. I think the ecoboost rattle is a much more prevalent issue. I’ve owned many Hemi’s and never had a problem. I’ve owned one 3.5 EcoBoost and it has the rattle that Ford won’t acknowledge (even though the dealer says it is a problem). 
 

Regarding auto 4x4. I’d rather have it on a half ton Daily Driver,  but it wouldn’t be a requirement. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by RyanB

[jjackkrash]

I can't resist advising to at least take a look at a GM with the 3.0L diesel and the 10 speed before you rule it out.  It's a pretty slick powertrain.  

[rennis]

I drove a 2016 F150 Lariat (3.5L ecoboost) for 7.5 years and >70k miles and it was a great truck.  The 4A feature is nice when you want it.  I did engage it occasionally on boat ramps with slick or loose surfaces.  But for that purpose 4H is just about as good.  We have pretty mild winters out here but typically used 4A on commutes or long highway hauls a handful of times each year.  I tended to only use it in situations where 4H would have been justified, and the truck was fine in 2H until road conditions worsened and/or road conditions changed, like from slush to cleared to snow to ice and back, etc.  (That happens a lot out here.)   It was a nice security blanket but I could live without it too, as I do now with the F250 I upgraded to.  No 4A in that platform.

As for reliability, I never had cam phaser problems with mine and I'm fairly sure Ford made strides on that issue the later you get in the model years.  The early ones?  Definitely a problem.  The only mechanical issues my truck had:  A sheared exhaust manifold stud at the turbo (Ford fixed this design flaw in 2017 and later 3.5s) and I had horrible luck with the pano-sunroof in that truck.  The plastic rails for the sliding mechanism were damaged twice.  Out of warranty, that is a spendy little problem.  Oh, and early on (in warranty period) I had an Integrated Wheel End fail.   Those IWEs get a bad rep too but most people seem to have okay luck with them.

I admit I'm not a Ram person and find the HD trucks to ride really rough.  Also not a huge fan of the interior layout but I like it better than Chevy and GMC.  Ford is my preference.  I drove a TRX a few times and LOVED that truck.  Man those things are sweet.  Better than Raptors too. 

[kstateskier1]

I'm on my 4th F150.  When I was looking to replace my '15 3.5 Eco in '21 I looked at some Rams, including a pretty optioned out Longhorn.  Ended up back in my 4th Lariat.  I went with the 5.0 this time as I found one that was a good deal cheaper than the Eco and had every other option I wanted.  Personally, I'm just as happy with the 5.0 and with my driving style I don't get any worse mileage than I did on my '15.  Knock on wood, no major issues with any of my Fords other than I would skip the glass roof option even though I checked the box again on my '21.  Replaced the $15 roof rail for $2000 at the dealership on my '15 after they had to pull the seats.  It squeaks a lot as well.  Otherwise, went 147k on the 2015 and only replaced the Cats.  

 

I would encourage you to move up to the Lariat over the XLT for reasons other than the 4A if your budget allows.  I have pretty much a Platinum optioned Lariat outside of auto running boards and massage seats.  The toys are very nice on it.  

 

I'll also recommend Perkins MotorPlex in Paducah, KY if you look used.  Most hassle free experience I've ever had buying a car.  They delivered it ready to test drive, then 5 minutes of signing papers, and they were off with my trade in.  

Edited October 4, 2023 by kstateskier1

[Cole2001]

I had a 16 F150 with the 3.5 eco and no 4A. No issues just switching into 4H, was actually quite impressed with this truck in winter conditions. Was a great truck and it got worked HARD, regularly towed 10k, had 35" tires, catlass downpipes, Canadian winters, previous owner towed a 5th wheel... and had pretty much no issues 223k (KM). It started to develop a trans slip before I sold it but for the use and mileage cannot complain with zero turbo or rattle issues. If I had to pick a half ton for interior, comfort and performance would be the f150 for sure.  

[justgary]

Another (2020) F150 XLT with 3.5L EB here.  No winter to speak of, but I do engage 4H at boat ramps and in frog-choker rains when water is pooled everywhere on the roads.  It tows everything I have to tow with ease, and the ten-speed transmission combined with the turbo engine means that it has no issues passing or going up hills.