Oil extraction hose broke in oil pan

[longlake]

I winterized my 2017 T23 this weekend and I went to suck the oil out of the dipstick with my topsider like I have done many times before.  This time the hose got stuck in the crankcase.  I pulled the dipstick tube out and tried to remove the hose right out of the hole in the crankcase without any luck.  Eventually the hose broke and now I have a length of hose in the bottom of the oil pan. 

 

Does anyone know if the oil pan can be dropped with the engine in the boat (PCM 6.0)?  Thinking this is going to be expensive if I need to have engine pulled to get the pan off.  Or do I run it and let the hose hopefully settle in the bottom of the pan for the life of the engine? 

[oldjeep]

Sorry to hear that but you win the prize for first one this year.

I would love one year to go by where we don't get one of these threads.  But just in case anyone searches - DO NOT USE OIL EXTRACTORS THAT GO IN THE DIPSTICK TUBE.

 

No idea if you can drop pan with engine installed - doubt it.  Search and you will see dozens of discussions about leaving it in the pan vs pulling the engine to remove it.

[solorex]

I wouldn't even think about "leaving" anything in the pan.  You need to pull the engine and get it out.  Probably not what you want to hear.

 

[BlindSquirrel]

@longlake  This has happened to many folks over the years I've been on this forum. Some have pulled the engine/ pan and got the piece out.... others have gone the route of metal is stronger than plastic and ran their motors. Here is a sample thread of the many on here. Me? I am in the metal is stronger than plastic camp and would run it, and not speak of it again. 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by BlindSquirrel

[Steve B.]

How big a piece? At the least I'd try a regular oil draining, and try to remove the nut on the pan that the hose is attached too. With some luck the small piece may get stuck right there and be able to get some fine needle nose pliers or some pokey thing to grab the broken hose. Best of luck.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Steve B.
spelling

[dizzygti]

Realistically it's not going to clog your oil pickup screen...and good luck working on the bottom of the oil pan without removing the engine.    I'd run it and watch oil pressure VERY closely.   

[longlake]

Thanks for all of the replies guys, I read through the link to the other post as well, thanks for attaching it.  I guess I’ll have all winter now to figure out what I want to do come spring. 

[oldjeep]

I am also in the camp of - would just leave it in there.  The only bad thing I can think of is if somehow it got wrapped up in the rotating assembly and even then - what is it gonna do.

[Woodski]

It would be wise to take a piece of the tubing and heat up a liquid to running oil temp (which is different and higher than water by 30 or more degrees) and see how soft it becomes.  It won’t go thru the suction bell screen but you don’t want it getting flung around in the rotating assembly or flung up between a piston and piston wall.  If it lays in the bottom of the pan, no issue there.

[justgary]

42 minutes ago, Woodski said:

It would be wise to take a piece of the tubing and heat up a liquid to running oil temp (which is different and higher than water by 30 or more degrees) and see how soft it becomes.

This is not a bad idea.  If the hose is nylon the working temperature is above 250*C.  Even if it is something like HDPE the temperature will be over 100*C.  It will get soft above those temperatures, and generally not turn gooey liquid until about 20-30*C above that. 

I don't think motor oil in the pan gets near 100*C since the block tends to run around 71*C.  Still worth a test to be sure.

[longlake]

Good idea, I will heat up a section of hose in some oil and see what happens.  Looking at some images of the pan and lower end assembly I am thinking if the tube is in the lower part of the sump, it should be contained there by the windage tray and not get into the rotating assembly.  Perhaps I can get a borescope in the oil drain fitting and see where its at?  Thanks again for the help

[BDFD1206]

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I did the same thing a few years ago. I’d leave it in there. Here’s why. 
 

I took my boat to a very reputable Malibu dealership to have it removed. They lifted one side of the engine to drop the pan and remove the tube. I thought all was well after this expensive mistake. Not so much. That season I started to have vibration in the driveline, which I thought was prop related. Fast forward to the beginning of the following season when we sheared all 4 prop shaft coupling bolts due to the engine being improperly aligned. I ended up having to replace my prop shaft seal, prop shaft, coupling and prop. Needless to say, I did that repair myself and properly aligned my engine. 

[dizzygti]

12 hours ago, BDFD1206 said:

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I did the same thing a few years ago. I’d leave it in there. Here’s why. 
 

I took my boat to a very reputable Malibu dealership to have it removed. They lifted one side of the engine to drop the pan and remove the tube. I thought all was well after this expensive mistake. Not so much. That season I started to have vibration in the driveline, which I thought was prop related. Fast forward to the beginning of the following season when we sheared all 4 prop shaft coupling bolts due to the engine being improperly aligned. I ended up having to replace my prop shaft seal, prop shaft, coupling and prop. Needless to say, I did that repair myself and properly aligned my engine. 

Ahhh yes, the old "they'll fix it correctly, they're the experts."  In reality, they create more problems than they solve.   Frustrating experience for you I'm sure.   That was my thought on this:  it's probably not going to cause a problem, and I wouldn't open Pandora's box just to make sure.    

[longlake]

19 hours ago, BDFD1206 said:

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I did the same thing a few years ago. I’d leave it in there. Here’s why. 
 

I took my boat to a very reputable Malibu dealership to have it removed. They lifted one side of the engine to drop the pan and remove the tube. I thought all was well after this expensive mistake. Not so much. That season I started to have vibration in the driveline, which I thought was prop related. Fast forward to the beginning of the following season when we sheared all 4 prop shaft coupling bolts due to the engine being improperly aligned. I ended up having to replace my prop shaft seal, prop shaft, coupling and prop. Needless to say, I did that repair myself and properly aligned my engine. 

Yikes, sorry to hear about the problems you had to go through that were created by pulling the engine.  Thanks for sharing, that is very helpful information in assisting with making the decision on how to proceed. 

[Jhucke]

How much of it is down there?

[longlake]

Not entirely sure as I didn’t measure the length of the hose before I used it.  I have been searching to see if I can find documented somewhere online the original length, but I haven’t found it yet.  I even called a number of places that said they sell them to see if they could measure the hose for me, but no one actually has one in stock that sells them.  It is the blue steel “Topsider” oil extractor it’s a real piece of junk; I just ordered a different model as I’m done with it.  It doesn’t seal well at all and its really hard to know if it’s working as you cannot see how full it is. 

[oldjeep]

21 minutes ago, longlake said:

Not entirely sure as I didn’t measure the length of the hose before I used it.  I have been searching to see if I can find documented somewhere online the original length, but I haven’t found it yet.  I even called a number of places that said they sell them to see if they could measure the hose for me, but no one actually has one in stock that sells them.  It is the blue steel “Topsider” oil extractor it’s a real piece of junk; I just ordered a different model as I’m done with it.  It doesn’t seal well at all and its really hard to know if it’s working as you cannot see how full it is. 

Sounds like the one I have.  Works fine for me - but I cut the plastic tube off and installed a threaded fitting that connects to the drain line

https://www.northerntool.com/products/topsider-oil-changer-model-5060ts-33226

Let me go out and measure it for you.  I kept the plastic tube for use with a jetski

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by oldjeep

[oldjeep]

36 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Sounds like the one I have.  Works fine for me - but I cut the plastic tube off and installed a threaded fitting that connects to the drain line

https://www.northerntool.com/products/topsider-oil-changer-model-5060ts-33226

Let me go out and measure it for you.  I kept the plastic tube for use with a jetski

 

The clear plastic part of the hose is about 49 inches long where it gets to the black part of the hose

[longlake]

15 hours ago, oldjeep said:

The clear plastic part of the hose is about 49 inches long where it gets to the black part of the hose

Thanks for measuring that for me I appreciate it! 

Bad news is I think about 8" of hose in the oil pan

[Jhucke]

7 hours ago, longlake said:

Thanks for measuring that for me I appreciate it! 

Bad news is I think about 8" of hose in the oil pan

I just have a really hard time believing that an 8" piece of tubing is going to cause cast iron and steel any issues. I would leave it.

[longlake]

22 hours ago, Jhucke said:

I just have a really hard time believing that an 8" piece of tubing is going to cause cast iron and steel any issues. I would leave it.

Thanks for the feedback, I tend to agree with you I am going to plan on leaving it in.  Thanks again to all for the help

[Jhucke]

8 minutes ago, longlake said:

Thanks for the feedback, I tend to agree with you I am going to plan on leaving it in.  Thanks again to all for the help

I think its easy for people who are not in the situation to say that they would pull the engine at all costs, because it's not their boat that they have to pull the engine on, and it is easy to type on the internet. I think the risk is non-zero, but still, very low that something will happen.

...Then again, I too, am just another guy on the internet. YMMV, good luck!

[Bozboat]

 

Word.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Bozboat

[JeffK]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:48 PM, Woodski said:

It would be wise to take a piece of the tubing and heat up a liquid to running oil temp (which is different and higher than water by 30 or more degrees) and see how soft it becomes.  It won’t go thru the suction bell screen but you don’t want it getting flung around in the rotating assembly or flung up between a piston and piston wall.  If it lays in the bottom of the pan, no issue there.

Bill Nye would be proud....

[justgary]

6 hours ago, Bozboat said:

 

Word.

Doesn't count if it wasn't to retrieve a piece of hose in the pan!