2021 Tahoe Towing 23-25 Malibu/Axis

[Manriqueandrew]

Do any of you have experience towing any malibus/axis 23’+ with the new generation Tahoe? I have a 2021 Tahoe Z71 that is rated for 7700 and just put a deposit on a new Axis A245 that is practically the same size as a T250 or A240. Would love to hear thoughts, questions or comments on towing with this rig!

[Livinlogs]

I think you will be over your limit . I don’t want to start a long thread on capabilities or whether you should tow or not . My T250 on triple axle trailer full of all fluids and gear weighed 9000 lbs before I added lead . Maybe a245 on a double axle could be 8000 lbs . The crane operator will have a good idea on weight when they swing it off the transport dry . Good luck . Very nice boat 

[Nitrousbird]

You will be overweight.  Remember, tow ratings is also with an empty vehicle and just the driver.  Add in a couple passengers and gear, and that reduces your tow rating significantly before even hooking up a boat that will already be over the rating.  

[rennis]

It will maybe pull it okay on flat ground.  If you're not towing a lot, or over the passes, it could get you by.  It's going to push the limits of that SUV even lightly loaded.  You'll have to be light in the vehicle too.  I wouldn't be real eager to load up the Tahoe with people and the boat with gear and then pull it over Snoqualmie pass.  You'd be overweight as Nitrous points out, and I would guess you'd have a lot of white knuckles. 

I towed our T220 a short distance with a 2021 Duramax Tahoe.  it did okay but the tongue weight squatted it pretty good and the SUV was neither quick to accelerate from or come to a stop.  I could see why the platform was ranked pretty low in a comparison of the best towing SUVs on the market. 

[RyanB]

I think it depends on your expectations and how far/often you tow. A couple times a year for short distances it’s probably fine (although that big of a boat may certainly pull you some distance down a steep launch ramp). 
 

I personally wouldn’t want it as a primary tow vehicle for any sort of distance or over any real passes. 

[Stevo]

Save yourself the agony and buy a 3/4 diesel.

wish someone told me that earlier in life

[PNWoke]

On 9/8/2023 at 8:10 PM, Manriqueandrew said:

Do any of you have experience towing any malibus/axis 23’+ with the new generation Tahoe? I have a 2021 Tahoe Z71 that is rated for 7700 and just put a deposit on a new Axis A245 that is practically the same size as a T250 or A240. Would love to hear thoughts, questions or comments on towing with this rig!

Short distances in fair weather you’d prob ok.  +1 on just getting a 3/4 ton diesel.  23 feet is usually the most boat I would recommend for that size of vehicle, and even that is probably pushing it.

[wakesonthesnake]

I have a 21' Expedition that does okay with my 06' 23 LSV but it does get pulled around at the ramp and as noted it make a difference when there are 7 people in it.  I prefer using my 1-ton srw.  I am looking at a 25 LSV and I will not be using the Expedition.

[dizzygti]

I pull my T250 with an F-150...but my ramp is 3 miles from my storage lot and I don't do much more towing than that.    Truck is rated for 12.3K, but you can tell the boat is "driving" a lot of times.   

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:58 PM, Stevo said:

Save yourself the agony and buy a 3/4 diesel.

wish someone told me that earlier in life

This is correct.  Less expensive than a diesel Suburban or Yukon XL, same number of seats assuming you never use the 3rd row, and tows a million times better.  Can you tell I just bought another one?  1-ton actually, because anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.

[wakesonthesnake]

You would not need a diesel.  Any of the big gas motors will more than get it done.  It is still only around 10K pounds.  In all reality a properly equipped 1/2 ton will do the trick safely as well, just not as comfortable to operate.

[rennis]

You may not NEED a diesel.  

But I will tell you from recent experience you also won't regret the diesel...

 

[Stevo]

10 hours ago, OtherBoatisaCessna said:

This is correct.  Less expensive than a diesel Suburban or Yukon XL, same number of seats assuming you never use the 3rd row, and tows a million times better.  Can you tell I just bought another one?  1-ton actually, because anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.

Agreed I did the same, on my 2nd F350 long bed.

 

1 hour ago, wakesonthesnake said:

You would not need a diesel.  Any of the big gas motors will more than get it done.  It is still only around 10K pounds.  In all reality a properly equipped 1/2 ton will do the trick safely as well, just not as comfortable to operate.

“Not Need” , and “get it done” …. 
 

yeah I was able to  get a rideable surf wave from my 23lsv , but I prefer the performance and wave size of the 25LSV , and even more so with the LT4

Right tool for the Job. I’m not as familiar with @Manriqueandrew towing distance and the mountain grades he will be going through in Washington.

but I used 6.0L and 6.2L Denali gassers for a few years in a Yukon and a Sierra and having those engines scream over the Altamont (800ft elevation) pass here in the Bay Area just heading out to the delta was enough to make the switch, let alone a trip to Tahoe a few time a year.

im not saying he need to go out an buy a 2024 F450 diesel, but a 2-5yr old diesel with reasonable miles would be worth a look and comparison . I’m under the assumption that 2021 Z71 he has was probably at least $70k

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Stevo

[wilster]

+1 for diesel.  I towed for ~8 years with a 2010 Denali XL and then a 2017 Denali XL after the 2010 blew the transmission coming back from lake powell.  The 2017 Denali transmission temp would also run "hot" and so we eventually ditched that a couple years back for a F-250 diesel and it's wayyyyy better performance, much safer and more reliable.  So it's not just about the engine and whether it is capable, it's also braking and transmission capability--the GM gas SUV's are just not up to snuff for these larger boats.  

[hethj7]

3 hours ago, wakesonthesnake said:

You would not need a diesel.  Any of the big gas motors will more than get it done.  It is still only around 10K pounds.  In all reality a properly equipped 1/2 ton will do the trick safely as well, just not as comfortable to operate.

Although the diesels are incredible, it is more about getting the 3/4 frame, brakes, suspension, etc.  They are just a night and day difference between the 1/2 ton platforms as our toys keep getting heavier.  

[dizzygti]

36 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Although the diesels are incredible, it is more about getting the 3/4 frame, brakes, suspension, etc.  They are just a night and day difference between the 1/2 ton platforms as our toys keep getting heavier.  

This, all day.   The engines are all capable, it's the rest of the package that leaves safety/comfort on the table.   As I said above, I only tow 3 miles, and have no interest in taking my boat to other lakes, so my 3.5EB F150 will do just fine for my needs.   

[rennis]

41 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Although the diesels are incredible, it is more about getting the 3/4 frame, brakes, suspension, etc.  They are just a night and day difference between the 1/2 ton platforms as our toys keep getting heavier.  

Agreed on platform capabilities - there is no comparison between a 1/2 ton and a HD truck.  And in addition to power and fuel consumption I will say one significant advantage the diesel has over the gas HD truck is the engine exhaust brake.  Towing our boat or camper down a mountain pass is a stress-free experience in the new truck.  Set the adaptive cruise control to the speed you want and it does the rest, almost exclusively on the engine brake.  It's incredible. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by rennis

[Stevo]

This is from Texas to east Tennessee back in 2017.

we were inside the Denali, but the 25LSV drove the Yukon all the way there

Edited September 13, 2023 by Stevo

[RyanB]

3 hours ago, wilster said:

+1 for diesel.  I towed for ~8 years with a 2010 Denali XL and then a 2017 Denali XL after the 2010 blew the transmission coming back from lake powell.  The 2017 Denali transmission temp would also run "hot" and so we eventually ditched that a couple years back for a F-250 diesel and it's wayyyyy better performance, much safer and more reliable.  So it's not just about the engine and whether it is capable, it's also braking and transmission capability--the GM gas SUV's are just not up to snuff for these larger boats.  

The Ford SUVs aren’t any better at maintaining reasonable temps. 

[NewMalibu]

Suggest #1, if you plan to tow that boat any distance, and you still have an option to, get a triple axle. the weight distribution and addtional set of brakes makes pulling my M220 on a triple way less scary than pulling my 23lsv on a double.

Suggestion #2, if you can buy a 3/4 ton, do it. That being said, we pull the M220 with a wagoner. Trans temps never break 200 and we dont have any issues with squat or power pulling over Snoqualmie/Blewett/vantage hill. The only major issue is the RPM and MPG. trying to maintain ~70mph+ over the passes, gets the RPM up above 5k and mpg down to the 3-4 range.

[asnowman]

We have a 2019 25 LSV, a 2023 yukon xl denali, a 2017 yukon xl denali, and a 2015 2500HD gasser..... there is no way i will ever tow the 25 lsv with the new yukon more than the 5 miles to the ramp from the lake house again.  If the 3/4 ton is not available for towing, the boat waits to be towed. 

Our normal tow routine is 125 miles from home to the lake house in the spring, and the opposite in the fall. No mountain passes, 60% highway, rolling new england hills... nothing crazy.

I towed the 25lsv the 125 miles to home in the fall of 2019 with our 2017 yukon xl denali.  Went out and bought the 3/4 ton to tow with a couple weeks later. The 2023 yukon does not tow as well as our 2017 does (my opinion, don't care what the numbers say).  I Used the 2023 to pull the response and the 25 lsv last weekend, and then used the 2017 yukon to tow the response for the 125 miles home. The 2017 handles the tow better, i am not a expert in why, it just does.  My truck was in the shop getting brakes and exhaust replaced, so tomorrow i get to do the 2 hour each way drive to go get the 25lsv. The 3/4 truck platform is just so much safer than the suv platforms for towing the weights of the newer boats. I also have a 2018 1/2 ton chevy pickup, it tows better than the suv, but not enough to talk about in all honesty. 

Do yourself a favor, get a decent truck if you are towing any useful distances. Even a several year old gas 3/4 ton will be faaaar better than the tahoe. 

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

7 hours ago, rennis said:

Agreed on platform capabilities - there is no comparison between a 1/2 ton and a HD truck.  And in addition to power and fuel consumption I will say one significant advantage the diesel has over the gas HD truck is the engine exhaust brake.  Towing our boat or camper down a mountain pass is a stress-free experience in the new truck.  Set the adaptive cruise control to the speed you want and it does the rest, almost exclusively on the engine brake.  It's incredible. 

I forgot to mention this, but I totally agree.  You buy a diesel for the go power, but the braking is even better.  We towed our 3500HD Dually Duramax with our 5,200 pound truck camper in the back pulling our 8,800 pound boat up and over Teton pass - and if you know Teton pass, that sucker is steep - and literally do not have to touch the brakes on the way down.  Absolutely amazing.  
 

We also ran the dually and 5,200 pound truck camper rig (no boat) up to the top of Powder mountain with about 8” of unplowed, untracked snow (5am) and came down the same afternoon… and if you know powder mountain, you know that sucker is REALLY steep (16% grade - it is no joke).  That one, with a gross vehicle weight of around 14,000+, we did have to touch the brakes on the way down.  But only a little.  Would have been absolutely terrifying if not impossible with a gasser.  
 

I feel strongly enough about this (and hate taking the camper off the dually) to recently buy a ‘23 F350 diesel to replace our old 2004 3/4 ton Suburban as my daily driver and non-camping boat-puller.  You won’t regret it.  

Edited September 14, 2023 by OtherBoatisaCessna

[Nick55]

You've received some really good advice here suggesting there is a difference between moving a boat like that through your neighborhood and traveling any sort of distance.  One thing I'd like to add and recommend everyone understand is how to figure out the limits of your actual vehicle. 

Kelly Blue Book has a really good article explaining the numbers and how to figure it all out, https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/towing-capacity-guide/#:~:text=Subtracting the curb weight from,within 10% of that total., but in a nutshell, you need to know a few key numbers.  

1. Know your vehicle GVWR and payload capacity (it's on a sticker in the drivers door jamb).  As an example, my 2015 F150 has a payload of 1593 lbs and a GVWR of 7600 lbs. That means overall, the truck must weigh less than 7600 lbs with whatever full load I'm carrying on the two truck axles, including passengers and fuel.  Capacity is the weight limit of that full load and includes the tongue weight of whatever trailer I'm towing.  Note that this is not GCWR which is the combined capacity of the tow vehicle and trailer.  
2. Know your hitch limits on the tow vehicle.  On the 15 F150 the hitch is limited to 500 lbs tongue weight and 5000 lbs total trailer weight for a traditional trailer.  That goes up to 1000 lbs and 10000 lbs with a weight distributing hitch added (like for campers)
3. Know your trailer weight and tongue weight.  For this you need to visit a scale.  CAT scales are at almost every truck stop. https://catscale.com/ They have a very convenient app that you can use to make things even easier.  As mentioned in 2, you add your tongue weight to whatever you have in your truck to figure if you are within the vehicle limits.    
4. Make sure the hitch ball mount and ball also meets the requirements (with some cushion) for your trailer as well.  I see lots of boat trailers with 2" hitches when they should be using a 2-5/16"......

These guidelines will get you to the point you are legal.  Now your butt dyno will have some feedback for you too but for the most part, towing limits in a vehicle will be less than what your butt will lead you to believe is safe.  Also, keep in mind, as a boat owner you are likely driving a pretty nice tow vehicle and a really expensive boat.  These are perceived as luxuries by many people and if you are ever unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident, regardless of if it's your fault, personal injury attorneys will have a go at you.  They follow the money, and if you have any, you need to make sure your rig is legal.  If not, you will be perceived as the danger on the road and even if you got rear ended while sitting in traffic, you weren't supposed to be there if you aren't legal..... 

I got hit by a drunk driver 3 years ago towing a car trailer with a small tractor on it.  Even though he crossed the center line and I took the impact as a sideswipe to the trailer, the state police still made sure my load was tied down correctly, my lights and brakes were functioning at the time of the accident.  The drunk wasn't insured and while his car was destroyed, he was unhurt, but it was still a huge pain.  I ended up fixing the trailer out of pocket without insurance to reduce the headache. Had it been my boat trailer it would have been much worse to deal with.

[RyanB]

4 hours ago, Nick55 said:

These guidelines will get you to the point you are legal.

Not to get in the weeds, but I’m curious of your definition of “legal”. 
 

As far as I know, manufacturers weight ratings have no legal standing other than limits to their warranty.

[Nick55]

I'd have to look at specific state laws, but Illinois is pretty strict.  When you get into the Chicago area, some municipalities have their own limits as well, especially as you get close to the harbors on Lake Michigan.  Note that there is a GVWR for a vehicle and then another for the plate type.  Passenger plate types used on vehicles like Tahoe's and Expeditions are different than B class plates (7600 lbs)  on trucks such as an F150.  We have C plates that are for trucks up to 10k lbs, and D plates for over 10k.  Same with trailer GVWRs.

https://www.ilsos.gov/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_x142.pdf This applies for towing non-CDL vehicles.  Colorado looks a little looser on non-commercial vehicles, but other states may vary too.

Page 16 from this guide.

Drivers or owners are responsible for overweight vehicles. The weight allowed on an Illinois plate is shown on the registration card. This card must be in the cab of the truck or bus, carried by the driver or carried by the person in control of the vehicle. If a vehicle is overweight:

• The driver must stop the vehicle in a suitable place.
• The truck must remain standing until a part of the load is removed or shifted to comply with the law.
• Any material unloaded shall be the responsibility of the owner or operator.
• The driver or owner shall be arrested by the officer who finds the vehicle overweight. No arrest ticket will be issued if the overweight is 2,000 pounds or less and the driver or owner shifts or removes the excess. This arrest tolerance is reduced to 1,000 pounds for vehicle combinations having a registered weight in excess of 80,000 pounds. Special permission to move those vehicles exceeding maximum size and weight limits may be obtained from IDOT.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Nick55