Starter Relay? Location? 2018 LSV

[ajive]

A few weeks ago I had a brief moment when the start button wouldn't fire the engine.  Tonight it happened again and had to hot wire the starter with a screwdriver to get it back up to go home.  No click, just nothing.  Button stops it and brings up key code, so don't think it's that. 

My guess is the starter relay, anyone know where to find it so I can bang out the repair without hunting?

 

 

Edit: forgot to mention I'm three weeks out of warranty... 

Edited August 25, 2023 by ajive

[ajive]

Well that hunt was easy.  It's right on top.  Diagnostics shows that it's closing properly.

 

So now the horizon of potential problems got larger, haha.  Any advice out there?

[csleaver]

Will the engine crank and start using the emergency keyswitch? 

Low voltage or loose connections on the batteries, battery switch, power distribution post, or engine grounds are the most common cause of no crank issues, so check those first.

The start button sends a signal to the Viper controller at the helm and a start request is sent from the Viper via the Controller Area Network (CAN) to the ECM.  The keyswitch sends a voltage signal directly to the ECM for a start request in case there is a problem on the CAN or the Viper.  The neutral safety sends voltage to the starter relay when the throttle shift controller is in neutral and the ECM sends a ground signal to energize the starter relay during a successful start request.  This smart start feature will crank the starter for about 11 seconds and prevents cranking while the engine is running.

Basically, if the start/stop button and the keyswitch will not crank the engine, you likely have a problem with the neutral safety switch in the shift throttle controller.  If the keyswitch will crank and start the engine you likely have a problem with the Viper, CAN, or start/stop button circuit.  This is assuming all of the electrical connections, harness, and relay are functioning properly. 

[dalt1]

My boat same year and model did same thing. I wired a SnapOn jump switch temporarily to my starter and used it all last year when needed. Total random when needed or not. Warranty changed out the whole throttle unit. As csleaver said, micro switches gone bad. 

[ajive]

Thanks csleaver.  That will help as I go forward I'm sure.  

One of my batteries was completely toast so I'm starting with replacing both.  When I tried yesterday, battery 2 would crank but not fire and the screens would die.  Battery 1 would crank and fire, and it would fire on 1+2.  So small chance it was a voltage issue... I was on 1+2 with 1 being completely dead when the issue happened on the water.

Not convinced though since when the issue occurred it was silent and didn't seem that the signal was getting there.  Dalt1's story means I may just have a sporadic issue that needs to be dealt with. 

Next weekend is probably the last time the boat gets out this year.  Hopefully batteries are the issue, but I'll be prepared for manual starting in case it happens again.

 

Another realization from all this is that my key switch doesn't work at all.  Had never used it before, but seems like I don't have the correct key, so I probably need to swap that out too for the future.

[ajive]

6 hours ago, dalt1 said:

My boat same year and model did same thing. I wired a SnapOn jump switch temporarily to my starter and used it all last year when needed. Total random when needed or not. Warranty changed out the whole throttle unit. As csleaver said, micro switches gone bad. 

So when you say throttle unit, do you mean the position sensor and idle position sensor at the throttle lever or something down stream, like the ECM module?

[23LSVOwner]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:18 PM, ajive said:

So when you say throttle unit, do you mean the position sensor and idle position sensor at the throttle lever or something down stream, like the ECM module?

Pretty sure he is talking about the whole throttle assembly you use when driving the boat.

[dalt1]

On 8/26/2023 at 2:18 PM, ajive said:

So when you say throttle unit, do you mean the position sensor and idle position sensor at the throttle lever or something down stream, like the ECM module?

Yes throttle assembly by helm.

 

[ajive]

Thanks all for your help!  I guess I know what to order if it happens again.

[Rgrac]

Interesting, I’ve been dealing with similar situation with my 2014 LSV 23.  Dead silence when I hit start button or try the key start.  Prior to this happening I had the engine die after slamming a large wave.  This happened several times and boat started up with no other issues. Figured I had a loose connection prior to current problem.  Still at a lose after doing all the following:

-checked all fuses I could find and relays with a tester; both batteries are good; engine cranks when jumped at the solenoid; checked grounds and looked for loose connections; all functions on both touch screens working; and all indications seem to point to the neutral safety switch  

-sent throttle to Livorsi and had them do full service and was told that throttle circuit board replaced and all recalibrated and tested.  The blue light now works when pushing the neutral override switch, but still dead when trying to start engine

-I have power going out of the rear terminal when trying the key start with nothing, other 2 terminals have power; I’ve tried unplugging and reconnecting all the wire plugs I have come across including the 3 large bus connections secured to engine; large ground wire on port side of engine is tight

Any ideas would be appreciated; local Malibu mechanic is not available; I thought for sure it was the neutral safety switch; could there be something disconnected down stream of the neutral safety switch causing the problem?  Thanks

 

[csleaver]

Does the engine start and run when you jump the starter solenoid, or does it just crank?

[Rgrac]

Tried several times and it did not start.  Gave it a pretty long try on second attempt with no start and ignition key was in the “on” position on both attempts. 

[csleaver]

When the engine does not crank using the keyswitch, the throttle controller neutral safety, the starter relay or fuse, or the wires connecting them are the most common issues.  The orange wires at the shift throttle connection or at the boat to engine intermediate harness can be backprobed and jumped to bypass the neutral safety (but be careful jumping wires).  The engine starter relay pin 85 will have power when the throttle is in neutral.

If the engine will crank but not start when the starter solenoid is jumped, the dash power button is on, and the kill switch lanyard is on, then you may not have spark or fuel pressure.  A spark tester can be placed between a spark plug and coil wire to test for spark when cranking.  The touchscreen Engine Diag can be used to see fuel pressure.  The pressure reading will not be the actual fuel pressure, but if reads somewhere around 99-115 then it is ok.  If there is no spark, check the helm ignition breaker and engine IGN fuse.  If there is no fuel pressure check the engine fuel pump relay and fuses.

[Rgrac]

Thanks for the help.  I’ll see if I can make any progress with that info and circle back.