Best surf rope and why?

[kstateskier1]

30 minutes ago, lake4life said:

LOL! Wow guys!  Really?! This makes your list of dangerous activities behind your boat??   Y'all would have a coronary and drop dead if you saw some of the other stunts we pull behind the boat over the years.  Obviously you don't need to choke up on the braid if you know what you are doing (hell some of us don't even use a rope, and just drop off the platform) but I find it very helpful for new surfers to feel out the wave in different positions when they are learning.   Young surfers we have someone manage the rope and position from the boat, but adults??.... yeah, using the braid is a good way to manage your position while learning.  Honestly, I'm surprise to hear the dissension on this, in all the surfing that happens on our lake and even other lakes we visit, this is common practice and until now never heard anyone express this issue.  I mean its the very reason surf ropes have a braid and small handles.  Hey, no judgement though, you do you. 

While I get your point, ropes are much more dangerous than most want to admit.  A college teammate's head went through the rope jumping at a tournament and she would have died immediately if not for a VERY skilled driver, better than probably anyone on this board.  She still had to be lifeflighted for her injuries and had a long recovery.  It's a one in a million thing, but putting an arm or a leg through the handle even with a surf rope is still possible and despite the unlikelihood, more dangerous than a number of the 'dangerous things you've done behind the boat.'

[granddaddy55]

18 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

^^^ I absolutely HATE seeing people "pull themselves in" on the rope.  It's dangerous and unnecessary.  The rope should put the rider into a surfable point on the wake.  If it's too long, shorten the rope at the tow point.  If your WAVE is long and powerful, riders should be able to "surf in" from the end of the rope.  If they are pulling themselves into the pocket, the rope is too long and should be shortened.  

I'm kindof a jerk when I see people choking up (and especially coiling) the rope on my boat.  It's not necessary and it's dangerous.

For riders who can't control their location in the pocket (i.e. shoot at the boat, stomp on back of board, go out the back, get shoulders dislocated trying to stay in on a slack rope), I try to work with them by having someone in the boat manage their slack and slowly feed it back out the rider as necessary.  Still no choking up tho.

yep, in my first ever surf lesson from Ryan Deese, surfing in was the first thing they made me learn. he even made me get up a certain way, he even ran a drill where you go forward  and back hand on handle managing the created slack  , straightening one leg snd bending the other and vice versa.  changed my surfing forever

that’s why i luv the proline red with front three feet removed making it 19.5 feet.  perfect surf in length with minimal slack surfing in.  

Edited October 31, 2023 by granddaddy55

[shawndoggy]

3 hours ago, lake4life said:

 but I find it very helpful for new surfers to feel out the wave in different positions when they are learning.   

Try actively helping by managing the rope for them, so they always have a little bit of slack if possible.  Way better than the frozen rope choke up for learning where the push is.  Think about it... when pulling in most folks (and newbs especially) are going to basically be in a "tug of war" stance with hips back and weight loaded on the back foot.  That's not a body position that's conducive to learning at all, and will basically need to be unlearned to surf without the rope.

[wakesonthesnake]

3 hours ago, kstateskier1 said:

Y'all would have a coronary and drop dead if you saw some of the other stunts we pull behind the boat over the years

I consider the rope one of the very top dangers on the boat. This is in part to working construction around rigging and cranes.  All the old boys I learned from were always concerned about lines, including even the tag line.  From their stories I learned why. 

There have been more than a few accidents in our area over the years involving ropes.  The last one was a young girl that lost several fingers in a tubing rope.  Everything is about mitigation of risk.  I have been boating for twenty years and not much more than sun burns and pulled muscles, plan on keeping it that way. 

[dizzygti]

Everyone learn the flying deck start.  Problem solved.  

[lake4life]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Try actively helping by managing the rope for them, so they always have a little bit of slack if possible.  Way better than the frozen rope choke up for learning where the push is.  Think about it... when pulling in most folks (and newbs especially) are going to basically be in a "tug of war" stance with hips back and weight loaded on the back foot.  That's not a body position that's conducive to learning at all, and will basically need to be unlearned to surf without the rope.

Like I said we do manage the rope for the younger learners, but I guess I don't have the same experience as you with adults learning.  They seem to pick it up pretty fast by talking them through it before hand and during and letting them manage the rope and position themselves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Listen, I got no problem with you all having a rule not choking up.  I've been involved in water sports and ski teams at some level for 40 years and done a lot of risky things.  Some of that I wouldn't do again and wouldn't recommend actually LOL. Sorry, using the braid section on a surf rope just doesn't register with me as very risky.  Would it be super dangerous to get a limb through a surf rope handle, well yeah it would obviously, but we can play these kind of games all day.  It would also be really dangerous to be knocked unconscious and fall out of the boat without a life jacket on.  How many of you are going to mitigate that risk with the simple change of making everyone on the boat wear a life jacket at all times?  Some probably do - great, but guessing a lot would be switching sides on the risk argument for that one.  Point being we all measure risk and risk mitigation at different levels.  Live and let live baby!  

[kstateskier1]

59 minutes ago, lake4life said:

Like I said we do manage the rope for the younger learners, but I guess I don't have the same experience as you with adults learning.  They seem to pick it up pretty fast by talking them through it before hand and during and letting them manage the rope and position themselves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Listen, I got no problem with you all having a rule not choking up.  I've been involved in water sports and ski teams at some level for 40 years and done a lot of risky things.  Some of that I wouldn't do again and wouldn't recommend actually LOL. Sorry, using the braid section on a surf rope just doesn't register with me as very risky.  Would it be super dangerous to get a limb through a surf rope handle, well yeah it would obviously, but we can play these kind of games all day.  It would also be really dangerous to be knocked unconscious and fall out of the boat without a life jacket on.  How many of you are going to mitigate that risk with the simple change of making everyone on the boat wear a life jacket at all times?  Some probably do - great, but guessing a lot would be switching sides on the risk argument for that one.  Point being we all measure risk and risk mitigation at different levels.  Live and let live baby!  

I get what you're saying and each boat owner is responsible for the mitigation of risk that they are comfortable with.  If it was me and you going back and forth, I'd leave it at what has been said as you seem very experienced, but in reality a lot that will look at this thread are far less experienced as the creation of wake surfing has brought a ton of new watersports enthsiasts into the fold, where other newer sports i.e. wakeboarding etc in their day normally had a flock from experienced water skiers before.  To me, if someone reads something somewhere and it becomes a thought and saves one injury in our sport, it's worth any disagreement on line or looking like a helicopter parent.

With that being said, I think it's very important to state that a rope dangling under and behind a falling rider is 1000x more likely to become a problem than getting knocked out and thrown out of a boat in a normal wakesurfing scenario and the outcomes can become very bad.  It's along the lines of these idiots I see wakeboarding without a life vest.  Getting hit by a sharp surfboard and knocked out is way more likely that getting knocked out at slalom speeds and no slalom skier is going without a vest, yet because of the slow nature of the sport, the risk isn't seen.  Any fall I feel the board going up I actually dive down deep to avoid taking it to the head.  I'll also say I also choke up on the rope at times, but with 40+ years of riding different things on the water I'm very confident that I can get the rope clear of me when a fall occurs.  I think long story short, I like to mitigate to the degree that everyone on the boat comes home safe and sound unless an absolute freak accident would occur and I think it's important to put these things out there as a lot of newer riders probably never even account for something like that happening.  My stance would be to NEVER allow a child to choke up and to state the risk and what to watch out for with any new adult rider.  

Edited October 31, 2023 by kstateskier1

[shawndoggy]

I saw an experienced wakesurfer and boat owning friend stick his arm through the triangle ON MY BOAT last summer. I didn’t yell at him about the choked up rope because of his experience. Wish I would’ve. 
 

It can happen to any of us. 

[lake4life]

3 hours ago, kstateskier1 said:

To me, if someone reads something somewhere and it becomes a thought and saves one injury in our sport, it's worth any disagreement on line or looking like a helicopter parent.

Point taken.   I know these online mediums don't translate well in discussions sometimes but I assure you that my expression of surprise at the push back on this was light hearted and I would never judge, mock, or dog on anyone's personal guidelines/rules for water sport safety.  I've seen enough ugly accidents and myself legit brushed deaths door on the water twice in my life, so I know that there is no such thing as too much safety.   We will all have different perspectives, opinions, and risk tolerances, but let me just leave it with this -  I'm a proponent and support anyone/everyone listening to their gut and would not want anyone's opinion including my own to pressure anyone pass their comfort on safety.

[RebesMalibu]

12 hours ago, kstateskier1 said:

While I get your point, ropes are much more dangerous than most want to admit.  A college teammate's head went through the rope jumping at a tournament and she would have died immediately if not for a VERY skilled driver, better than probably anyone on this board.  She still had to be lifeflighted for her injuries and had a long recovery.  It's a one in a million thing, but putting an arm or a leg through the handle even with a surf rope is still possible and despite the unlikelihood, more dangerous than a number of the 'dangerous things you've done behind the boat.'

I joined the k-state ski club team shortly after she recovered. If I remember correctly, she had a hoarse voice and some scars around her neck. 

[Steve B.]

Ropes are sooo dangerous. Slightly off topic. For the direct drive users a shock tube is highly recommended to keep that rope away from the driver and crew as well as some kind of bridle guard to keep body parts out. Back in the 80's my friend was driving a tournament, rope got around his head (oh ya) AND throttle, throwing the boat into full reverse, sinking the bow and blowing out the windshield and essentially sunk the boat. He was smoking a pipe and that ripped his face and mouth. Glad no one was killed.

[kstateskier1]

11 hours ago, RebesMalibu said:

I joined the k-state ski club team shortly after she recovered. If I remember correctly, she had a hoarse voice and some scars around her neck. 

Yeah, she does have some life long reminders but luckily lived to tell the tale and have a beautiful family and do some really great things since then.