Lead placement - 23MXZ

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

Based on comments here, on a lark I ordered 500 pounds of lead ballast (10 bags) for our fairly new-to-me 23MXZ.  Does anyone have starting recommendations on where to place these things?  It seems like bow ballast is desirable, but there is very little storage up there.  TIA

[CDAWake]

I also just ordered 500lbs for our A24. I am thinking 200 in the bow if I can find room for it under the bow bag and 300 under forward observer seat area. Our boat is very light in the nose so far, so as much up front as I can. 

[Zippymbr]

It all depends on what you have currently hard and soft tanks for ballast.  Most of us just have to experiment with placement until we get it right.  I place my bags 5 on each side in the corner seats with one as a floater to where it is needed to balance the wave.  People don't like to have to move around the boat so I move the bag.

[CaptainMorgan]

concur with @CDAWake, my A24 (similar size and same battery layout) needs ~300 lbs under observer seat to even out the boat with just me driving and no ballast filled (as judge by a symmetrical wake at ~20mph).  with all hard/soft tanks full and that setup, you'll probably get a nice wave (or wake)...but if you then add 5-6 people that all want to sit in the stern and watch, you'll be wanting more bow weight (via bags or moving humans).

note: a few hundred pounds can make a big difference so if trying to maximize performance, your placement of crew/people could dominate your lead placement.  For example, yesterday i had a normal size driver, but a ~300 lbs friend as the observer.  While I was surfing he kept switching from port to starboard side and i could notice the wave change significantly (still surfable, but noticably worse as big guy + lead all one one side basically submerged the surfgate and ruined the normally stellar goofy wave; when instructed to stay on starboard side, wave went back to great as he and the lead were balancing each other out, but i probably could have used nose weight as well). 

 

[mikeo]

When I was working on the ballast for my 23 LSV I talked to the engineers at Malibu about weight distribution. They suggested 60% stern and 40% bow to make the hull sit in the water the best. As far as exact placement goes, it's where it fits. Trying to find the center of balance from bow to stern can be tricky.

[CDAWake]

I have 850 pp’s in the back and I’m not sure what the bow bag is (couldn’t fit anything bigger under there), but with everything full and my wife and little kids onboard my surf gates are pretty far under and I don’t have a ton of push on the wave, it is super tall and short in length as well. I’ve tried all kinds of speeds and wedge settings, I think I just need more bow weight. 

[Zippymbr]

23 minutes ago, CDAWake said:

I have 850 pp’s in the back and I’m not sure what the bow bag is (couldn’t fit anything bigger under there), but with everything full and my wife and little kids onboard my surf gates are pretty far under and I don’t have a ton of push on the wave, it is super tall and short in length as well. I’ve tried all kinds of speeds and wedge settings, I think I just need more bow weight. 

To get more push and a longer wave you need more bow weight less wedge and possibly a bigger board.  If your wave is too tall and fat try less weight in the stern and put more people and lead bags in the bow.  Many people think that you need to fill everything up to get the best wave, but as you are finding out that produces a tall short wave.

[CaptainMorgan]

46 minutes ago, CDAWake said:

I have 850 pp’s in the back and I’m not sure what the bow bag is (couldn’t fit anything bigger under there), but with everything full and my wife and little kids onboard my surf gates are pretty far under and I don’t have a ton of push on the wave, it is super tall and short in length as well. I’ve tried all kinds of speeds and wedge settings, I think I just need more bow weight. 

in my experience, if the gate is submerged such that water is flowing over it like a waterfall, wave stinks (washy, little push).  When water is spraying mostly high in the air, i am typically happier.   instinct makes me want to just keep adding weight, and with a tab-system maybe that's the answer, but surfgate boats seem to have a limit.

I'd try draining some ballast on the non-surf (aka deployed surf gate) side as that lifts the gate a bit.  For an A24 i assume that with full PnP's, if you go at least 11mph and W2 or 3 and that should give you a decent starting point.

[Ronnie]

40 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

in my experience, if the gate is submerged such that water is flowing over it like a waterfall, wave stinks (washy, little push).  When water is spraying mostly high in the air, i am typically happier.   instinct makes me want to just keep adding weight, and with a tab-system maybe that's the answer, but surfgate boats seem to have a limit.

I'd try draining some ballast on the non-surf (aka deployed surf gate) side as that lifts the gate a bit.  For an A24 i assume that with full PnP's, if you go at least 11mph and W2 or 3 and that should give you a decent starting point.

My experience as well. It's hard to break old habits of thinking more weight is better. With gates, they need to be in the water to do their job.

[Surf4FamFun]

We have a 21 23 MXZ, our crew likes to sit leaning back against the inside of the bow, weight as far forward as possible.  With a couple of people in the front like that I can't fully fill the front tank without dipping.  I can't say that I ever feel like the built in bow tank is not enough.  I can see having lead to get the hull even with the typical driver but I would be very careful about lead in the bow of an MXZ.  Too much bow weight could be a big problem in rough water.  Look at the thread on the 24 MXZ almost swamping in rough weather.

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

@Surf4FamFun I think it’s interesting you posted this cautionary note - I took the still very new-to-me 23MXZ on a Memorial Day camping trip with extended family.  Overall we had a great time and the boat performed amazing, although the weather could have cooperated a little better. 
 

I started the weekend with 500 pounds of lead dispersed throughout the boat.  On the first session we loaded it up with five guys and went out to surf and the very first thing that happened was that we took water over the stern after chopping the throttle at cruise.  The next thing that happened was we took a wave over the bow returning to pickup a surfer.  Both were essentially driver error, but I was really surprised how careful I needed to be (for the record, I wasn’t driving for the wave over the bow!).  
 

In any case, the wave was insane - absolutely amazing.  So there’s that.  But I had echoes of that sinking 24MXZ in my head and it freaked me out having little kids in the boat so I ended up taking out all but 200 lbs for the rest of the weekend and the wave was great but not quite as amazing the rest of the trip, which was fine.  I figure the 500 pounds is appropriate for a guys session on calm water, but it’s too much for family cruising with a big crew.

Two thoughts that are really worthy of a separate thread:  1) The goofy wave is literally like an ocean wave, even for me at 240 pounds (and yes, I did actually surf all over the world years ago).  The regular wave is good but not quite as pushy.  Is there any way to even this out?  Just more weight to port?  Why don’t they turn the damn props the other way!?  2)  I really gotta get a bigger board.  Any recommendations for a big guy?

 

 

[CDAWake]

Interesting to hear about the bow weight, I did put 200lbs in the bow and 300 under the forward observer seat yesterday. The wave had so much more push than it did previously with just our little family in there. We then put 8 adults and 6 kids in there and it was even better.

I must have a very light bow or something, because even with the extra weight I still put two adults in the bow for surfing to get it to come down a little and didn’t see an increased risk of taking a wave over the bow. 
 

Not to say I won’t take the 24mxz taking on water story to heart, we live on a massive lake so weather is always a concern. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by CDAWake

[CaptainMorgan]

1 hour ago, CDAWake said:

Interesting to hear about the bow weight, I did put 200lbs in the bow and 300 under the forward observer seat yesterday. The wave had so much more push than it did previously with just our little family in there. We then put 8 adults and 6 kids in there and it was even better.

I must have a very light bow or something, because even with the extra weight I still put two adults in the bow for surfing to get it to come down a little and didn’t see an increased risk of taking a wave over the bow. 
 

Not to say I won’t take the 24mxz taking on water story to heart, we live on a massive lake so weather is always a concern. 

Glad to hear the lead did what you wanted.

remember, putting 2 people in the bow is nothing if the other 12 are in the back.  i think of it as keeping the boat at a particular angle in the water -- if your small crew + lead makes the wave you want, adding a big crew that sits mostly in the back will screw up the overall distribution/angle (or don't fill the ballast as much, which may be advisable given a crew of 14 plus 500 lbs of lead plus full pnp's is a LOT of weight)

[CaptainMorgan]

2 hours ago, OtherBoatisaCessna said:

@Surf4FamFun I think it’s interesting you posted this cautionary note - I took the still very new-to-me 23MXZ on a Memorial Day camping trip with extended family.  Overall we had a great time and the boat performed amazing, although the weather could have cooperated a little better. 
 

I started the weekend with 500 pounds of lead dispersed throughout the boat.  On the first session we loaded it up with five guys and went out to surf and the very first thing that happened was that we took water over the stern after chopping the throttle at cruise.  The next thing that happened was we took a wave over the bow returning to pickup a surfer.  Both were essentially driver error, but I was really surprised how careful I needed to be (for the record, I wasn’t driving for the wave over the bow!).  
 

In any case, the wave was insane - absolutely amazing.  So there’s that.  But I had echoes of that sinking 24MXZ in my head and it freaked me out having little kids in the boat so I ended up taking out all but 200 lbs for the rest of the weekend and the wave was great but not quite as amazing the rest of the trip, which was fine.  I figure the 500 pounds is appropriate for a guys session on calm water, but it’s too much for family cruising with a big crew.

Two thoughts that are really worthy of a separate thread:  1) The goofy wave is literally like an ocean wave, even for me at 240 pounds (and yes, I did actually surf all over the world years ago).  The regular wave is good but not quite as pushy.  Is there any way to even this out?  Just more weight to port?  Why don’t they turn the damn props the other way!?  2)  I really gotta get a bigger board.  Any recommendations for a big guy?

there are definitely threads for both your thoughts.  in Ballast, look at first pinned thread on setup for surf-gate boats.

i'll briefly comment on wave:  i find goofy wave is fantastic out of the box with a nice curl/push all the way back...while regular wave takes effort and IMHO has a lower ceiling.  Adding extra weight to the port-side (few hundred pounds of lead under observer) and draining some starboard rear (maybe drain 1/4 to 1/2 of PnP bag) improves things, as does moving humans to surf-side -- and i've gotten much better/'good' results -- but never fantastic; just can't quite get the same curl/push at the back.  But i'm also in a 2019 Axis hull and some of the pics i've seen from newer Bu's (esp some M220 pics on TMC) certainly look like regular wave has been improving.

ironically, the initial wave asymmetry incentivized me early on to teach myself to ride goofy and regular/heel-side, which i find super entertaining and challenging -- and i wouldn't have tried if i hadn't seen a friend riding that barrel of a goofy wave!

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

@CaptainMorgan yeah, I agree with that last comment - I found myself riding backside a lot this weekend and it was really fun and challenging, the extra push on that side helps make the wave a little more forgiving because I have always been weaker “going left”, so to speak.