Axis T250 Perfect Surf Wave

[Livinlogs]

24 minutes ago, Carguy08 said:

Dude. Im so off then.   I cant get it right.  Front bag is on backorder.   900's in the back.   Every sack full to the brim and i sink like a sub.  Hoping it user error.   And yea i can wake board very well and have for years just cant get this right.  

Now that I think about it , without any bow weight and those 900’s full you might have the surf gate submerged and really dirty wave . What wedge setting ? 

[CaptainMorgan]

7 hours ago, Livinlogs said:

Now that I think about it , without any bow weight and those 900’s full you might have the surf gate submerged and really dirty wave . What wedge setting ? 

concur - without bow weight, gate is probably submerged.  from drivers seat, i look for water spraying up in the air like a rooster tail (see pic).  if can't get enough peeps/lead up front, you'd need to drain some of the 900's (don't have to drain them evenly, can leave the surf-side slightly more full while side with the gate deploying should have less to be sure it gets higher). 

[dizzygti]

10 hours ago, Livinlogs said:

18x16 acme . Lt4 engine . I’m at 6100’ and it pulls fine . Cut rpm’s by 400-500 

You already answered like three weeks ago, but thanks again!  

10 hours ago, Carguy08 said:

Dude. Im so off then.   I cant get it right.  Front bag is on backorder.   900's in the back.   Every sack full to the brim and i sink like a sub.  Hoping it user error.   And yea i can wake board very well and have for years just cant get this right.  

If you have no front bag, and rears full, this is your problem.    I played with speed last week, and went from running at 11mph to 10.5-10.6, and it increased wave height a lot, allowing me to dial the wedge back down to 3 from 5.   I keep seeing people saying they're running 11-12 mph but that seems fast to me.   I incorrectly said I have a 450 bag in the front.   I have since confirmed it's a 750 bag FYI.  If I were you, I would not fill the rears, maybe only the hard tanks and center tank, and lower your speed a bit and see what happens.    You're a good 50lbs heavier than me, but so are a few of my buddies and they have no problem surfing the regular wave on my boat.   The goofy wave should be that much better/easier.    

[dizzygti]

2 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

concur - without bow weight, gate is probably submerged.  from drivers seat, i look for water spraying up in the air like a rooster tail (see pic).  if can't get enough peeps/lead up front, you'd need to drain some of the 900's (don't have to drain them evenly, can leave the surf-side slightly more full while side with the gate deploying should have less to be sure it gets higher). 

 

Is it pretty much accepted that you don't want the gate fully submerged?   After reading it here several times last week, I tried not filling the sacks in the rear and only the hard tanks, and still had my gate submerged.   It didn't seem to hurt to wave quality though in my opinion, only lowered the size.    Side note @CaptainMorgan, is that your boat in the picture you posted?    Looks like Zephyr Blue/Graphite?   Hard to tell.       

[CaptainMorgan]

28 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

Is it pretty much accepted that you don't want the gate fully submerged?   After reading it here several times last week, I tried not filling the sacks in the rear and only the hard tanks, and still had my gate submerged.   It didn't seem to hurt to wave quality though in my opinion, only lowered the size.    Side note @CaptainMorgan, is that your boat in the picture you posted?    Looks like Zephyr Blue/Graphite?   Hard to tell.       

yes, that's my A24 from monday session - its definitely graphite and some kind of dark blue w/ flake.  Son was holding a 360 go-pro on a stick that happened to get cool angle where spray off the gate is easy to see.  I should have grabbed some candids later in the video when friend tried to backflip on his foil - comical  

i *think* its accepted that submerged gates are bad - but i mean submerged when surfing (not at rest).  i've had full ballast and a big crew a couple times and when wave looked funky i went back and noticed that top of gate was not visible, it looked like a rock submerged in a stream with water flowing over it.  When i get the spray/rooster tail, thats when wave looks/feels much better to me.

I probably wrote this elsewhere but regarding speed, i'll say that my first season, i would surf at ~10.5mph with W4 cause i thought the wave looked big and tall (and it did), but it was also soft/squishy with little push (and i also was teaching myself how to surf in the first place).  at 11mph+, it seems to 'firm up' (no scientific number to quantify this); if i get past 11.5mph though, i notice height/push start to suffer.  Other big factor was my skill improving dramatically since then and getting a good Soulcraft board thats right-sized for me - altogether made my opinion of the wave improve dramatically.  My go-to setup at this point (with light crew) is 11.2mph, all ballast full, 300 lbs lead under OB, and W3 for regular or W2 for goofy.  I'm 170# ish, if i get a bigger guy they get an extra Wedge, while kids get a little less wedge.

(also, even if you have a PnP 750# bag up front, highly doubtful it is filling that much under the seats)

[ahopkins22LSV]

57 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

Is it pretty much accepted that you don't want the gate fully submerged?   After reading it here several times last week, I tried not filling the sacks in the rear and only the hard tanks, and still had my gate submerged.   It didn't seem to hurt to wave quality though in my opinion, only lowered the size.    Side note @CaptainMorgan, is that your boat in the picture you posted?    Looks like Zephyr Blue/Graphite?   Hard to tell.       

It is dependent on the boat. My gates are not shooting water up nearly that high as the picture above. My guess is there is little to no weight in that boat though because it looks like a foil rider. 
 

You don’t want the gate so deep at surf speeds that the water is just running completely over it. That’s going to wash your wave out for sure. On our 22LSV, the gates are definitely submerged but they are right at the water line. The water coming off of them is still up in the air and landing into the cut of the surf wave. You can barely see it in the first picture just off the port side transom pad. In the second picture (wedge 2) you can see it better. If they get lower then that, the wave washes out. We surf at 11mph, wedge 3 for reference. I think my bags are 450 or 550’s though. 
 

I haven’t surfed with a ton of adults in the boat yet. Max was 4 and I could tell if we have more then that, people are either going to need to sit in the bow or I run the rear ballast bags half full or something. 
 

[dizzygti]

29 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

yes, that's my A24 from monday session - its definitely graphite and some kind of dark blue w/ flake. 

When i get the spray/rooster tail, thats when wave looks/feels much better to me.

(also, even if you have a PnP 750# bag up front, highly doubtful it is filling that much under the seats)

Sounds like it matches my boat colors....the Zephyr flake looks black in most angles/lighting, until it LIGHTS up blue under the right combo.    So you're saying the spray/rooster is BETTER, not worse?   And yeah, I had the same thought, but it looks full and doesn't look restricted by hull/lack of available space.   

6 minutes ago, ahopkins22LSV said:

It is dependent on the boat. My gates are not shooting water up nearly that high as the picture above. My guess is there is little to no weight in that boat though because it looks like a foil rider. 
 

You don’t want the gate so deep at surf speeds that the water is just running completely over it. That’s going to wash your wave out for sure. On our 22LSV, the gates are definitely submerged but they are right at the water line. If they get lower then that, the wave washes out. We surf at 11mph, wedge 3 for reference. I think my bags are 450 or 550’s though. 

Thinking ours are usually close to the water line as we get some spray onto the swim platform but it's not washing out the wave at all.   I'll have more people in the boat this weekend and will have someone confirm.   

[ahopkins22LSV]

Just now, dizzygti said:

Sounds like it matches my boat colors....the Zephyr flake looks black in most angles/lighting, until it LIGHTS up blue under the right combo.    So you're saying the spray/rooster is BETTER, not worse?   And yeah, I had the same thought, but it looks full and doesn't look restricted by hull/lack of available space.   

Thinking ours are usually close to the water line as we get some spray onto the swim platform but it's not washing out the wave at all.   I'll have more people in the boat this weekend and will have someone confirm.   

You can always start with less weight and then fill as you are going then stop them when it starts washing out and drain a bit again until it’s good. Problem is documenting that level. Also I updated my post a bit. 

[CaptainMorgan]

27 minutes ago, ahopkins22LSV said:

It is dependent on the boat. My gates are not shooting water up nearly that high as the picture above. My guess is there is little to no weight in that boat though because it looks like a foil rider. 

Good eye - yes it is a foil rider, but i had all ballast full as we were swapping between foiling and surfing, Wedge probably in Lift or W1.  I still recall 'significant' rooster at W2 or W3 when i was surfing, will need to see if i have pics of that though. 

i'm also in a 2019 hull which probably matters a little, as getting a clean lip like @ahopkins22LSV shows is hard for me (seems like newer hulls do this better or i'm not quite 'fully' dialed) 

15 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

So you're saying the spray/rooster is BETTER, not worse?      

I contend that yes, some spray is good.  I'd say at "low" ballast like light foiling, the spray is super tall and almost straight up.  at 'max' ballast, you'll see some rooster tail and momentum of the splash is taking little dots over to the surf wave like @ahopkins22LSV 2nd picture.  if you go too heavy, its not spraying but 'flowing' like water over a rock then bad things happen (i don't have pics of this though).  that's my story at least  

[dizzygti]

20 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

I contend that yes, some spray is good.  I'd say at "low" ballast like light foiling, the spray is super tall and almost straight up.  at 'max' ballast, you'll see some rooster tail and momentum of the splash is taking little dots over to the surf wave like @ahopkins22LSV 2nd picture.  if you go too heavy, its not spraying but 'flowing' like water over a rock then bad things happen (i don't have pics of this though).  that's my story at least  

Ok, yeah, that matches my experience, you aren't going to get zero water over the gate but it isn't like a submerged rock either.   All the posts I saw about not wanting water over the gate made me think there was none.   

[CDAWake]

I’ll second what @CaptainMorgansaid about the surf gate. Mine were completely under water while surfing with water free flowing over the top and the wave was soft, dirty, and had no push. I added a bunch of bow and observer seat weight and it has made an incredible difference. Now the surf gate is slightly under and sprays water upwards. 

[kplawncare]

We are struggling with finding the push in our t250 we had 6 people in boat front bags filled and tears filled and all other tanks filled was running 11.6 wave just didn’t have the push we were looking for . We tried wedge in 3-4 but then down to 2 

[gtfish]

1 hour ago, kplawncare said:

We are struggling with finding the push in our t250 we had 6 people in boat front bags filled and tears filled and all other tanks filled was running 11.6 wave just didn’t have the push we were looking for . We tried wedge in 3-4 but then down to 2 

I know it is against the conventional wisdom on this site but I had a person in my boat recently that said the speed needed to be in the 10.6 to 10.8 range.  They have towed a lot of pro surfers and said no one surfs at a higher speed.  I didn't surf that day but my daughter said the push was a ton better at the lower speed.  Going to give it a try later this week and see how it works for me and my son (both of us are over 230lbs).  

[vanamp]

14 minutes ago, gtfish said:

I know it is against the conventional wisdom on this site but I had a person in my boat recently that said the speed needed to be in the 10.6 to 10.8 range.  They have towed a lot of pro surfers and said no one surfs at a higher speed.  I didn't surf that day but my daughter said the push was a ton better at the lower speed.  Going to give it a try later this week and see how it works for me and my son (both of us are over 230lbs).  

We are at 10.8 to 11 in our T220.  We surf centurions a bit faster but those waves get super steep. 

Here is what our wave look like:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ctkm6BqM8vW/?igshid=MTI1ZDU5ODQ3Yw==

[CDAWake]

I have tried everything from 10.0 - 12.0 and 11-11.2 is the sweet spot for our a24. Any slower and the wave turns to mush with no push. 

[dizzygti]

10 hours ago, gtfish said:

I know it is against the conventional wisdom on this site but I had a person in my boat recently that said the speed needed to be in the 10.6 to 10.8 range.  They have towed a lot of pro surfers and said no one surfs at a higher speed.  I didn't surf that day but my daughter said the push was a ton better at the lower speed.  Going to give it a try later this week and see how it works for me and my son (both of us are over 230lbs).  

Push wise, on the left wave I've found 10.5 with wedge 3 is comparable to 11.0 with wedge 5 on my T250.    We like the slower speed and less wedge as it makes the wave much longer AND it has more push.   

[CDAWake]

2 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Push wise, on the left wave I've found 10.5 with wedge 3 is comparable to 11.0 with wedge 5 on my T250.    We like the slower speed and less wedge as it makes the wave much longer AND it has more push.   

I’ll keep experimenting with speed and wedge, it’d be nice to go slower

[Maas]

I surf all full, 900s in the back 900 in the front , usually 6-8 people on board usually stick 2 up front for a longer wake, 11-11.5

When I personally go up, i also hit the wedge 3, wave is about 4.5 feet high and goes back 25-30 feet

Edited June 28, 2023 by Maas

[Carguy08]

On 6/21/2023 at 10:45 PM, Livinlogs said:

Now that I think about it , without any bow weight and those 900’s full you might have the surf gate submerged and really dirty wave . What wedge setting ? 

3 

[Livinlogs]

1 hour ago, Carguy08 said:

3 

I think the lack of bow weight is hurting your wave . I tried mine with empty sac up front , looked at the wave and didn’t even try surfing it . 

[Carguy08]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:40 AM, dizzygti said:

You already answered like three weeks ago, but thanks again!  

If you have no front bag, and rears full, this is your problem.    I played with speed last week, and went from running at 11mph to 10.5-10.6, and it increased wave height a lot, allowing me to dial the wedge back down to 3 from 5.   I keep seeing people saying they're running 11-12 mph but that seems fast to me.   I incorrectly said I have a 450 bag in the front.   I have since confirmed it's a 750 bag FYI.  If I were you, I would not fill the rears, maybe only the hard tanks and center tank, and lower your speed a bit and see what happens.    You're a good 50lbs heavier than me, but so are a few of my buddies and they have no problem surfing the regular wave on my boat.   The goofy wave should be that much better/easier.    

Where did you get the 750 bags for the front?  Wakemakers only went to 450 and still on back order.  

[dizzygti]

19 hours ago, Carguy08 said:

Where did you get the 750 bags for the front?  Wakemakers only went to 450 and still on back order.  

It's a Sumo sack, dealer installed it so came with the boat. 

[Livinlogs]

19 hours ago, Carguy08 said:

Where did you get the 750 bags for the front?  Wakemakers only went to 450 and still on back order.  

Mine is the Malibu branded fat sac I believe but pretty sure it’s only in the 400 pound plus range . I’ll look tomorrow 

[SurfNAZ]

I’m pretty sure the Malibu Fat Sac bow bag is 450 just like the Wakemakers bag.  The Fat Sac takes up every bit of the bow space available under the front cushions.

[Livinlogs]

1 hour ago, SurfNAZ said:

I’m pretty sure the Malibu Fat Sac bow bag is 450 just like the Wakemakers bag.  The Fat Sac takes up every bit of the bow space available under the front cushions.

That’s what I thought , mine pushes up the cushions as it fills . I really couldn’t find any space for lead but decided it didn’t need it