Axis T250 Perfect Surf Wave

[HighCountry21]

Alright, This is really a two sided question because the wave will be different if your regular vs goofy. As well as weight in the boat and people.

 

FOR JUST THIS Lets say we have 8 people evenly in the boat.  Bags are all full. What speed/ wedge number are you running to get the best wave? 

 

Side note, What would you run if you had 1000lbs of lead spread out by the tower and the front. ( 650 On the port side, 450 on the starboard side)

[Tdent450]

I have the same question. 

i have 900’s in rear lockers. 5 adults in the boat, no wedge. 

Last time I was out 11.6 seemed to be a good speed. I went up to 12 and it lost some push. Added wedge- helped a little- took it back to 11.6 and the push felt better. 
 

Still trying to dial it in. We had a t22 previously that I tinkered with a lot and got a great wave out of it. So far really impressed with the T250.

 

 

[Livinlogs]

I added 350 lbs at the tower base port side . I played with it in front obs compartment then moved it back . I also went to 18” prop , not sure how much that changed the wave . I also have the 900’s . We went all the way up to 12.4 last fall then backed down . Fast with lots of wedge was really long but ultimately we are back to 11.3 to 11.6 and wedge 2-4 . I had two A24 previously and always needed more bow weight . I don’t think this one needs  it . I have two sets of PTM racks and 4 rev 10’s on the tower . So that may have a little impact over not having that much weight in the middle . I know moving 50 lbs around can make differences on the regular side . Weirdly almost my entire family is goofy 🤪. So when I have a regular rider I have to think about it . That’s been my experience 

[dizzygti]

On 5/27/2023 at 11:13 PM, Livinlogs said:

 I also went to 18” prop.

Off topic, but more specs on the prop you went with?   

[Livinlogs]

1 hour ago, dizzygti said:

Off topic, but more specs on the prop you went with?   

18x16 .120 cup acme . I believe it was the 3315 . Weirdly another member on this site with same exact boat doesn’t have clearance . I have lt4 engine and 6100’ elevation . I think they all should come with the speed prop on them 17x17 . Mine came with standard 17x15.5 . The engine has so much torque lowering the rpm’s just makes it quieter and likely lower fuel consumption. My dealer has fit both 18” and 17.5” props to the 25 lsv and t250 models . I have about 7/8” clearance. That’s about as close as I’d want . Only downside is idle speed it up there around 5mph . We learned to pulse in and out of gear when loading onto trailer 

[dizzygti]

33 minutes ago, Livinlogs said:

18x16 .120 cup acme . I believe it was the 3315 . Weirdly another member on this site with same exact boat doesn’t have clearance . I have lt4 engine and 6100’ elevation . I think they all should come with the speed prop on them 17x17 . Mine came with standard 17x15.5 . The engine has so much torque lowering the rpm’s just makes it quieter and likely lower fuel consumption. My dealer has fit both 18” and 17.5” props to the 25 lsv and t250 models . I have about 7/8” clearance. That’s about as close as I’d want . Only downside is idle speed it up there around 5mph . We learned to pulse in and out of gear when loading onto trailer 

Thanks for the reply, don't want to go too far off topic though.   Mine is an M6 and came with 17x15.5 also, so just looking at what others have done as I'd like to go up to an 18" prop.   Thanks again!  

[Livinlogs]

1 hour ago, dizzygti said:

Thanks for the reply, don't want to go too far off topic though.   Mine is an M6 and came with 17x15.5 also, so just looking at what others have done as I'd like to go up to an 18" prop.   Thanks again!  

Id try the 17x17 because those are probably pretty easy to find possibly used and get an idea how it works , maybe even borrow from a dealer . My previous a24 with m6 couldn’t handle any more prop at my altitude but at low elevation I bet it could 

[CaptainMorgan]

2 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Thanks for the reply, don't want to go too far off topic though.   Mine is an M6 and came with 17x15.5 also, so just looking at what others have done as I'd like to go up to an 18" prop.   Thanks again!  

i'm surprised an M6 with 17x15.5" prop isn't meeting your needs (at Georgia elevations)...what issue do you want the 18" prop to improve?

[dizzygti]

17 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

i'm surprised an M6 with 17x15.5" prop isn't meeting your needs (at Georgia elevations)...what issue do you want the 18" prop to improve?

Well I've only had the boat a little over a week (and put 20 hours on it), so still getting used to things.  I wouldn't say the 17x15.5 isn't meeting my needs, but the thought was that increasing the pitch to 16 or 17 would let me lower surfing/cruising rpms and the 18" prop would give more "power" to offset the rpm shift for what I hope will offset/cancel each other and save a little on gas consumption.   Is this not correct line of thinking?   Last week's evenings on the water and the long holiday weekend on a busy/windy lake were just showing off and getting used to the handling/surf wave, so really was going to play with things this weekend, assuming the boat's 10 hour service is finished today.... 

[CaptainMorgan]

8 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Well I've only had the boat a little over a week (and put 20 hours on it), so still getting used to things.  I wouldn't say the 17x15.5 isn't meeting my needs, but the thought was that increasing the pitch to 16 or 17 would let me lower surfing/cruising rpms and the 18" prop would give more "power" to offset the rpm shift for what I hope will offset/cancel each other and save a little on gas consumption.   Is this not correct line of thinking?   Last week's evenings on the water and the long holiday weekend on a busy/windy lake were just showing off and getting used to the handling/surf wave, so really was going to play with things this weekend, assuming the boat's 10 hour service is finished today.... 

My .02 - if that new to the boat, i'd suggest leave it alone for a little while as its probably less important to change that than to get comfortable with setting it up and balancing ballast and just having fun etc - as i'll argue below, its not that big a difference when you change...cause i just did....

i actually changed props from 15.5" pitch to 17" pitch this spring, which is about a 10% difference and what do you know, at cruise speeds its about 10% faster (yay for math).  at surf speeds its maybe 200 rpm lower (which is like 5% lower but lots of prop slip happening at surf speeds).  the data i took is posted in the link below to give you an idea.  I mostly wanted a backup prop so i figured i'd try something different to see if i could get a little top end speed for cruising around without hurting surf capability (we rarely wakeboard).  When i found a used 2969, i took the plunge (if i didn't like it, it would go in shed as the emergency backup/weekend saver anyway).

I can't comment on fuel burn as i don't have a scanguage installed, nor do i have enough data on the new one to average gallons from the pump - but i recall some data from @Slurpee posted on TMC somewhere (search for 2805) and it showed examples -- maybe the "right" prop could save you 10% on plane or while surfing.  So doing rough math - if 10% savings at speed, that's probably only 5% savings overall due to all the time idling around a dock and picking up riders (if you spend 50% of your day at surf speed or on plane, thats way impressive).  I typically burn 5gal/hr overall, so even at $5/gal marina prices, that's $25/hr.  Saving 5% would mean $1.25/hr savings...those are pretty rough numbers, but hint that a new prop could take 500-1000 hours to pay for itself from a fuel consumption perspective!  

So i wouldn't bother getting a prop to save you money, and the small difference of 200rpm surfing probably won't be very audibly different either.  If you want a backup as insurance, then heck, get whatever and try something different, but i'll bet you are within 10% of "ideal" already.  (note: if you wakeboard heavy, the 17" pitch props may struggle and then the 18" diameter may be helpful...but at that point, just keep your current one instead of paying for 2 changes to offset eachother).

 

 

[dizzygti]

5 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

My .02 - if that new to the boat, i'd suggest leave it alone for a little while as its probably less important to change that than to get comfortable with setting it up and balancing ballast and just having fun etc - as i'll argue below, its not that big a difference when you change...cause i just did....

i actually changed props from 15.5" pitch to 17" pitch this spring, which is about a 10% difference and what do you know, at cruise speeds its about 10% faster (yay for math).  at surf speeds its maybe 200 rpm lower (which is like 5% lower but lots of prop slip happening at surf speeds).  the data i took is posted in the link below to give you an idea.  I mostly wanted a backup prop so i figured i'd try something different to see if i could get a little top end speed for cruising around without hurting surf capability (we rarely wakeboard).  When i found a used 2969, i took the plunge (if i didn't like it, it would go in shed as the emergency backup/weekend saver anyway).

I can't comment on fuel burn as i don't have a scanguage installed, nor do i have enough data on the new one to average gallons from the pump - but i recall some data from @Slurpee posted on TMC somewhere (search for 2805) and it showed examples -- maybe the "right" prop could save you 10% on plane or while surfing.  So doing rough math - if 10% savings at speed, that's probably only 5% savings overall due to all the time idling around a dock and picking up riders (if you spend 50% of your day at surf speed or on plane, thats way impressive).  I typically burn 5gal/hr overall, so even at $5/gal marina prices, that's $25/hr.  Saving 5% would mean $1.25/hr savings...those are pretty rough numbers, but hint that a new prop could take 500-1000 hours to pay for itself from a fuel consumption perspective!  

So i wouldn't bother getting a prop to save you money, and the small difference of 200rpm surfing probably won't be very audibly different either.  If you want a backup as insurance, then heck, get whatever and try something different, but i'll bet you are within 10% of "ideal" already.  (note: if you wakeboard heavy, the 17" pitch props may struggle and then the 18" diameter may be helpful...but at that point, just keep your current one instead of paying for 2 changes to offset eachother).

 

 

Yeah, I get it, I'm not in a rush.   I'm a gear head and just contemplating.  I originally tested a 2021 A24 with an M5 and someone had put a 16x14 prop on it.   It was a dog, and felt woefully underpowered to even hit surf speeds with all ballasts and PNP full and only 3 people on board for the demo.   I'm glad I avoided that,....by blowing the budget wide open and buying a brand new T250!    So yeah, I'm not chomping at the bit to spend $1K for minimal gains, but I do like to tinker and play with engines (automotive/manufacturing engineer by trade) so just doing research for now.   That said, 18" seems like a no brainer in the long run if there is clearance even at the same pitch.  Thanks for your response.   

[Slurpee]

My 2023 25LSV came with the 17x15.5 by accident.  I used it for the first few hours.  It was very much a louder prop than the 17x17 I'd had on my 2019 25SLV.  I switched it back to the 17x17 after a few hours.  RPMs are down a meaningful amount and that translates to less noise, higher top end, and less fuel burn.  Like was said earlier, having a spare prop is always a good investment.  Get something different.  The 17x17 is great.  I could get a 17.5 or maybe even an 18 onto the boat, but you'll pick up some more noise in the hull.  As that propeller gets closer to the hull you're basically beating a drum and it gets meaningfully loud at surf RPMs if you have a lower pitch prop.  You don't really hear it in higher pitch props because you're already going fast enough that when it gets above bass frequencies there is plenty of noise.

My 25LSV will burn 9.5-12.5 gph surfing depending on setup.  Cruising from point A to B on plane is anywhere from 11-18 gph depending on how fast.  Pump visit to pump visit is probably 5-6 gph with all the idling and turning around and what not.  That's all right off the scangauge over the last few years of use.

[CaptainMorgan]

Roger that @dizzygti, beauty is it's your toy and can do whatever the heck you want for whatever reason floats your boat.

The whole undertaking of surf boats is beyond logic anyway; i started out trying to mathematically justify/ man-splain every surf purchase to my wife (boards, lead, ropes, prop, etc) and she rolled her eyes and eventually said "stop inventing weird reasons and just say its cause you want to!"  Took me a while to realize that was enough (but the engineer in me still tracks everything in a spreadsheet!)

[jm8574]

New T250 - 17.5x14.25 w/ M5 - N AL.

Boats runs fine. Actually, the performance is aligned to the 2018 A24 w/ monsoon 409. This group had me concerned about the power (or lack of) and low range torque, but no issues to note. Kept my 17x15.5 off the A24 just to try if needed. Looking to hear about some setups. My A24 surf wave was incredible, so this one has some living up to do.

It came with 750's in the rear. Looking to add 500 lbs immediately then tinker from there. 

[dizzygti]

17 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Roger that @dizzygti, beauty is it's your toy and can do whatever the heck you want for whatever reason floats your boat.

The whole undertaking of surf boats is beyond logic anyway; i started out trying to mathematically justify/ man-splain every surf purchase to my wife (boards, lead, ropes, prop, etc) and she rolled her eyes and eventually said "stop inventing weird reasons and just say its cause you want to!"  Took me a while to realize that was enough (but the engineer in me still tracks everything in a spreadsheet!)

I still track everything too.  🤣  And yes, these are giant feats of inefficiency to create a wave to play on.  Good thing my wife loves to surf too!  Boat is stuck at the dealer wth the steering recall so weekend is shot, no playing until Monday night.

[Carguy08]

So where are we in good wake settings?   I only went once but im lost 

[dizzygti]

On 6/7/2023 at 9:55 PM, Carguy08 said:

So where are we in good wake settings?   I only went once but im lost 

I haven't had a large crew onboard yet, and only surfing regular wave, but everything full with PNP 850's in the back, 750 up front, 3 people in the boat, wedge 5, 11mph is a great regular wave that I can surf all day.   

Edited July 7, 2023 by dizzygti

[Carguy08]

Im goofy. Any help with that?   I had a boat load and couldn't get a wake to push me without rope.  Im 235lbs.  T250 and lt4

[dizzygti]

9 hours ago, Carguy08 said:

Im goofy. Any help with that?   I had a boat load and couldn't get a wake to push me without rope.  Im 235lbs.  T250 and lt4

Goofy wave should be even better/easier to setup.    You've had good results with the same board before on other boats?  

[Livinlogs]

It’s pretty hard to not have an awesome goofy wave on this 250 . Play with speed as I mentioned way up in this thread and add wedge . If you have pnp front and 900’s in the back you have to have a huge long wave . 2nd season on my 250 and I think first day I was impressed over the mxz a 24 hull 

[dizzygti]

18 hours ago, Livinlogs said:

It’s pretty hard to not have an awesome goofy wave on this 250 .

Agreed.  Had a goofy riding buddy on the boat this weekend, and it was the first time anyone had surfed that side on my boat.   We all  noticed how the wave was better compared to the regular wave.   

[Carguy08]

Dude. Im so off then.   I cant get it right.  Front bag is on backorder.   900's in the back.   Every sack full to the brim and i sink like a sub.  Hoping it user error.   And yea i can wake board very well and have for years just cant get this right.  

Edited June 22, 2023 by Carguy08

[Carguy08]

Im am using a giant floaty board in hopes that would be easier.   

[Livinlogs]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:57 AM, dizzygti said:

Off topic, but more specs on the prop you went with?   

18x16 acme . Lt4 engine . I’m at 6100’ and it pulls fine . Cut rpm’s by 400-500 

[Livinlogs]

6 minutes ago, Carguy08 said:

Im am using a giant floaty board in hopes that would be easier.   

I’ve never tried with no weight in the front . Throw some lead up there if you have it or 3 people just to see . We are going out tomorrow I’ll surf with no bow ballast and see what happens .