3/4 Ton Gas vs Diesel

[dshack]

Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death, I couldn't find much with the search button. I tow my 22 LSV several hours each way thru mountain highways (e.g., SLC to Flaming Gorge) pretty regularly and am considering bumping up from a 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton. Outside of towing our boat, I don't use my truck much (just random trips to Home Depot, doing misc truck stuff).

The main thing I can't decide on is gas vs diesel. I can see myself getting a bigger boat in the future, but I can't imagine I'll ever be hauling a massive camper or something else that would seriously push the towing capacity of a 3/4 ton gasser. So, I'm leaning towards saving $10k and just sticking with gas.

Anybody have any thoughts that might help me decide? Should I reconsider the need to bump up to a 3/4 ton?

Thanks!

Edited January 15, 2023 by dshack
Typo

[BlindSquirrel]

Well, the initial price difference you will get back and then some if you ever sell and it's diesel. I guess there are pros and cons to each and boil down more to your personal preference. In my opinion....

Gas pros

Cheaper up front, cheaper fuel, and you don't have to mess with the DEF system

Diesel pros

Smoother pulling with a ton of power (I set the cruise at 70ish while pulling our boat, as well as my bothers LSV 25 and it never down shifts even up large long hills), truck will be worth more with high miles, better fuel mileage while pulling and empty. So really the higher cost of fuel isn't a valid argument. 

If you ever haul with a diesel you'll never go back to a gas rig, at least I wont. I hate the saying some diesel guys say, "Can't even tell it's back there"... but it's true.

Really just personal preference though since the gas one will be fine too. 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by BlindSquirrel

[jjackkrash]

Drive both trucks back to back.  If you can't tell the difference or the difference is not that important to you, get the gas.  But, imo, there is no comparison in the driving experience.  Diesel rules the wasteland.    

[REHinH20]

I suggest you ask around on prices of oil change and maintenance also.  Many are in sticker shock when they go in for their oil change on a diesel.  Not usually a difference maker, but nice to know ahead of time.

[Cole2001]

If buying new from a dealer see if they offer a pre paid service package. Often the package price is the same price for gas and diesel. Like others said diesels are great and hard to beat but a 22lsv is a relativity light boat and a gasser would likely be sufficient. 

[shawndoggy]

I've gone from a diesel excursion to a 2014 f150 ecoboost to a 2019 F250 diesel.

The ecoboost is better than the excursion's old stinky 7.3L powerstroke in every way.  It's not really even a contest.  Not to mention the modern driving manners.

Stepping from the F150 to the F250... the towing experience is definitely better.  Don't listen to the "it won't downshift going uphill"  crowd... those folks don't live where there are real hills.  You WILL downshift going up Parleys, but it will still tow like you have nearly infinite power.  With my ecoboost, when I got the truck on boil it would pull hard.  But there was a lot of lag between light footed cruising and putting my foot in it.  In the F250 that reaction is a lot more instantaneous.  Also the heavier suspension components means the truck stays more composed while towing.

When NOT towing (i.e. most of the time) not gonna lie I miss the F150.  My commute to work is only about 17minutes, and when it's cold out the truck will just be getting warm enough to blow hot air when I get to work.  The gasser warmed up way faster.  $200 oil changes make my eyes water, and diesel fuel is more expensive than gas in my area now, so any fuel economy savings are offset in cost per gallon (not to mention periodic DEF topoffs).  The 3/4 and 1 ton trucks ride rough AF.  Near me there are long stretches of concrete freeways with expansion joints that jostle and bump the passengers when the truck is unloaded.  My F150 would cut through that stuff like butter. 

With a gasser HD truck I'd be a bit worried about having the worst of both worlds... howling rpms while charging up a pass with the boat, and buckboard ride unloaded.  I'm sure the gasser would warm up faster in the winter tho (if you get a diesel, be sure to get one with a supplemental electric heater for the winter!! wish I had!).  I haven't driven the godzilla (7.3L gasser) superduty like @Slayer has, but I bet it does pretty well other than in towing range because of single digit fuel economy while towing in the mountains.

In sum -- no free lunch.  You give up unloaded ride quality and road manners in exchange for a better towing experience.  

[jjackkrash]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Don't listen to the "it won't downshift going uphill"  crowd... those folks don't live where there are real hills. 

The 3/4 and 1 ton trucks ride rough AF. 

Two thoughts on your overall very good post:

My 2020 3500 will hold 70 mph up passes towing a 20K lbs. fiver.  With the 10-speed it shifts all the time, but it's smooth as butter.  So I don't really care that it's downshifting to hold 70.  

At least with my GMC HDs, my SRW HD trucks had a very nice unloaded ride.  I have a 2023 half ton as well and it rides great, but not all that much better than my past SRW HD trucks.  My current HD is a DRW and it is pretty stiff, but still not what I would call terrible.  If the roads you drive on really suck I could see getting tired of the rear end hopping a bit, but I don't really notice this all that much on the roads I drive.  

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by jjackkrash

[shawndoggy]

26 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

My 2020 3500 will hold 70 mph up passes towing a 20K lbs. fiver.  With the 10-speed it shifts all the time, but it's smooth as butter.  So I don't really care that it's downshifting to hold 70.  

Agree -- that's the point I was trying to make.  Ripping up over Donner Summit at 65+ is no problem at all for me with the boat in tow, but I'm definitely downshifting to do it.

29 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

At least with my GMC HDs, my SRW HD trucks had a very nice unloaded ride.  I have a 2023 half ton as well and it rides great, but not that all that much better than my past SRW HD trucks.  My current HD is a DRW and it is pretty stiff, but still not what I would call terrible.  If the roads you drive on really suck I could see getting tired of the rear end hopping a bit, but I don't really notice this all that much on the roads I drive.  

It's the concrete freeways that are the worst.  On smoothish asphalt, no problem... truck rides like a dream.  But heavily trafficked and often chain-rutted and potholed concrete highways are a little miserable in comparison to a soft-sprung IFS half ton.  YMMV.

[MLA]

Are you looking to compare gas HP and TQ to deisel HP and TQ? If so, its at what RPM each peaks. Its an entirely different conversation of comparing a 3/4 ton to a 1/2 or 1 ton. 

[Stevo]

18 hours ago, dshack said:

Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death, I couldn't find much with the search button. I tow my 22 LSV several hours each way thru mountain highways (e.g., SLC to Flaming Gorge) pretty regularly and am strong considering bumping up from a 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton. Outside of towing our boat, I don't use my truck much (just random trips to Home Depot, doing misc truck stuff).

The main thing I can't decide on is gas vs diesel. I can see myself getting a bigger boat in the future, but I can't imagine I'll ever be hauling a massive camper or something else that would seriously push the towing capacity of a 3/4 ton gasser. So, I'm leaning towards saving $10k and just sticking with gas.

Anybody have any thoughts that might help me decide? Should I reconsider the need to bump up to a 3/4 ton?

Thanks!

I use my f350 in the same manor you are describing.

I made the jump to 1-ton over 1/2 ton pickup gassers and SUV because of the heavier boats and the I-80 Donner summit trips. The towing is a dream.

I jumped from a 2001 vlx to the 2014 23lsv and our Denali 6.0 L96 and Denali 6.2 L94 both struggled with the hill climbs while in tow.  Even on the Altamont pass (elev 768) here in the Bay Area on our way to the Delta. Screaming up the pass at north 5k rpm is not fun or sustainable. Now that we are in our 2nd 25lsv pushing 10-11k it’s the right choice for sure.

in 2014 I bought a used 2011 f350 6.7l long-bed with 40kmiles, and didn't look back. I leveled the suspension and put 35’s on it which improved the way it handled with a wider tire and looked much better than stock pizza cutter tires. This trucked towed everything I had to throw at it, 23lsv, 25lsv, loaded dump trailers, 8k tractor. 

Cut to the pandemic where I got the itch to build a new truck. Ordered a 2021, that never came, re-ordered a 2022 and got it in October of 22. F350 lariat long-bed. The creature comforts and tech are far beyond the 2011 and the the stock suspension rode much improved. But the HD trucks do not drive like 1/2 tons. To be honest the f150 drives more like a car than a traditional truck. The 1ton loves to tow, and does it extremely well. We’ve towed from not cal to Powell twice, and will probably do it again in 2024. All of our regular lakes here are 1-4hrs away so we get our share of miles in.

Because the truck won’t be your daily I’d say pop for the 3/4ton diesel. And squirrel away some $$ for wheels and tires

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Stevo

[CDAWake]

I went from an old V10 F250 to a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel and it has been amazing for towing around Idaho and Montana. I'm sure other makes have an exhaust break as well, but that is my favorite feature on the Ram for towing on passes. I'll never buy another gas pickup as long as I have something to tow.

[Stevo]

1 hour ago, CDAWake said:

I went from an old V10 F250 to a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel and it has been amazing for towing around Idaho and Montana. I'm sure other makes have an exhaust break as well, but that is my favorite feature on the Ram for towing on passes. I'll never buy another gas pickup as long as I have something to tow.

Love the exhaust brake on the new truck, 

although I did sling some grease on a few inside bearing seals on the trip down from Tahoe around Labor Day. Not sure if using the exhaust brake down the long grade caused the surge brakes to be engaged more than they would otherwise,  but that was a 1st for me

[familyfun]

I agree with the others here.  Based on three factors in your post: longish tow, mountain passes, regular towing, I would go with diesel too.  Now the 22 LSV may not really need it over the 7.3 gasser, but you said you could see yourself going heavier so again I would go diesel.

For anyone else reading this thread, it really depends on your use case.  We have an old F350 7.3 Powerstoke diesel and are moving to a F250 7.3 gasser.  Our use case is different though.  Relatively short tow, flat with occasional tiny baby hills, and towing the boat typically 2 times a year (stays at the dock during the season).  We have a new 25 LSV which is a darn heavy boat but the 2023 F250 7.3 gas has a significantly higher towing capacity than our 20yr old F350 diesel does.  Our old F350 diesel actually struggled pulling the 25 LSV doing 70 up some of the small hills here.  I don't want the higher cost of ownership of a diesel, since 99% of the time I won't see the benefit of diesel. So bottom line it is all depends on your specific use case.

[dwc032]

21 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

Two thoughts on your overall very good post:

My 2020 3500 will hold 70 mph up passes towing a 20K lbs. fiver.  With the 10-speed it shifts all the time, but it's smooth as butter.  So I don't really care that it's downshifting to hold 70.  

At least with my GMC HDs, my SRW HD trucks had a very nice unloaded ride.  I have a 2023 half ton as well and it rides great, but not all that much better than my past SRW HD trucks.  My current HD is a DRW and it is pretty stiff, but still not what I would call terrible.  If the roads you drive on really suck I could see getting tired of the rear end hopping a bit, but I don't really notice this all that much on the roads I drive.  

 

 

 

Sorry to be that guy, but your 3500 Cummins or Dmax whichever it is is not towing a 20k 5th wheel over the pass at 70. Maybe hold 70 if you’re running a hot tune. But with that hot tune your EGTs and other temps would be out of control. 
 

I have a 2022 Dmax and it can barely hold 60+ pulling my 20k 5th wheel. I had a 2020 Cummins and it wouldn’t hold even close to 55-60. 

[Shea]

That seems weird.  I have a 2022 3500 Cummins HO and I'm pretty sure I've hauled close to, if not 20K over a highway mountain pass at around 70mph.  Long straight aways and mellow curves so plenty of time to gain speed.  Definitely not doing it over a pass with a lot of tight turns like Teton Pass unless you have a death wish but when you have time to get after it the truck is capable.  Do you shred tires?  Absolutely, but the truck will do it.  

[jjackkrash]

3 hours ago, dwc032 said:

Sorry to be that guy, but your 3500 Cummins or Dmax whichever it is is not towing a 20k 5th wheel over the pass at 70. Maybe hold 70 if you’re running a hot tune. But with that hot tune your EGTs and other temps would be out of control. 
 

I have a 2022 Dmax and it can barely hold 60+ pulling my 20k 5th wheel. I had a 2020 Cummins and it wouldn’t hold even close to 55-60. 

Which pass?   My 2020 will absolutely hold 70 in the passes I tow regularly.  Western Wa to Eastern.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by jjackkrash

[oldjeep]

20k lbs from a camper?  Is there a car in the back of it?  I was assuming these 20k trailers were race trailers.

Edited January 15, 2023 by oldjeep

[Cole2001]

Really comes down to holding the speed or accelerating around the corner up a hill. I’ve been floored not going over 70 with a new duramax but that’s accelerating up a hill. 

[jjackkrash]

I checked the sticker my rig is 19470 loaded (GVRW).  The CFO packs pretty heavy but I don't stop at scales so it's probably safe to say I'm under 20K towing depending on tanks full and how much firewood I packed, but I'm sure Im over 18K and pretty sure I'm at least 19k most of the time.  I've also been on hills where I doubt I could hit or sustain 70 towing heavy but over Snoqualmie or Stevens or Blewett pass I don't recall having issues holding 70 as long as traffics flowing.  

All that said, in a thread about towing 10K boats, I rounded on the weight and  I don't see the need really to haggle over 5 to 10 mph or a thousand pounds here or there.  These new diesel trucks are awesome is the basic point.    

Edited January 16, 2023 by jjackkrash

[Slayer]

On 1/13/2023 at 4:57 PM, shawndoggy said:

I've gone from a diesel excursion to a 2014 f150 ecoboost to a 2019 F250 diesel.

The ecoboost is better than the excursion's old stinky 7.3L powerstroke in every way.  It's not really even a contest.  Not to mention the modern driving manners.

Stepping from the F150 to the F250... the towing experience is definitely better.  Don't listen to the "it won't downshift going uphill"  crowd... those folks don't live where there are real hills.  You WILL downshift going up Parleys, but it will still tow like you have nearly infinite power.  With my ecoboost, when I got the truck on boil it would pull hard.  But there was a lot of lag between light footed cruising and putting my foot in it.  In the F250 that reaction is a lot more instantaneous.  Also the heavier suspension components means the truck stays more composed while towing.

When NOT towing (i.e. most of the time) not gonna lie I miss the F150.  My commute to work is only about 17minutes, and when it's cold out the truck will just be getting warm enough to blow hot air when I get to work.  The gasser warmed up way faster.  $200 oil changes make my eyes water, and diesel fuel is more expensive than gas in my area now, so any fuel economy savings are offset in cost per gallon (not to mention periodic DEF topoffs).  The 3/4 and 1 ton trucks ride rough AF.  Near me there are long stretches of concrete freeways with expansion joints that jostle and bump the passengers when the truck is unloaded.  My F150 would cut through that stuff like butter. 

With a gasser HD truck I'd be a bit worried about having the worst of both worlds... howling rpms while charging up a pass with the boat, and buckboard ride unloaded.  I'm sure the gasser would warm up faster in the winter tho (if you get a diesel, be sure to get one with a supplemental electric heater for the winter!! wish I had!).  I haven't driven the godzilla (7.3L gasser) superduty like @Slayer has, but I bet it does pretty well other than in towing range because of single digit fuel economy while towing in the mountains.

In sum -- no free lunch.  You give up unloaded ride quality and road manners in exchange for a better towing experience.  

I agree with all of this.  Frankly, the 7.3L gasser in the Ford is much stronger than the 6.6L in GM.  I wouldn't get one of them based on my behind the wheel experience.  You're right about the towing range and for people in a geography similar to you, the gasser would be a hard sell.  For relative flatlanders like me, it makes a lot of sense as a DD that tows on occasion.  There's no single solution that works for everyone everywhere.  It's what's cool about having these types of discussions and understanding different perspectives.  

I honestly don't miss my F-150.  I loved the truck and likely would be happy still owning one until I pull the 25 for a long weekend trip, or a week vacation 600 miles away.  Those experiences with the F-150 are what drove me to the 3/4-ton.  That and I get better fuel economy with my gasser super duty, albeit nominal, than I did in my F-150 while towing.  I'll take every couple MPG I can get.

[Nitrousbird]

As long as you would be happy with a gas or a diesel 3/4 ton, then the decision is totally financial.  And NOT the purchase price.  It is the cost of ownership price.

It's just math.  Determine the purchase price of each.  Figure out - realistically - how long you will keep the truck.  Estimate the cost of maintenance and repair of each vehicle.  Cost difference in insurance and fuel.  Lastly, figure out the likely resale of each.  

Add it all up and the one with the cheaper cost of ownership is the better buy.  If that number ends up being pretty close, then just get the diesel. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Nitrousbird

[Bozboat]

Or just recognize that analyzing recreation is not rational. “Get busy living or get busy dying.” Buy the one that makes you smile, and definitely buy one or the other before they get banned and your choice becomes something else entirely. 

[UWSkier]

I'm going through the gas vs diesel exercise myself here.  While a diesel would be great for towing the RV in the mountains and on cross country trips when the winds are less friendly, I also use my truck for running errands locally.  For every long haul I make pulling the camper, I make ten trips to Home Depot a mile from my house.  My understanding is that this sort of usage pattern is very unfriendly to the newer crop of diesels.

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

Oh my god, go diesel and never look back.  There is no such thing as too much truck (1-ton diesel dually here, 5000lb truck camper + tow the boat without even thinking about it.  Do the diesel, trust me).  

I have watched so many family members buy a 3/4 ton when the should have bought a 1-ton, or gas when they should have bought a diesel, or shortbed when they should have bought a long bed and ALL of them upgraded.  I swore I wouldn’t do this, and then did.  1-ton diesel SRW to 1-ton diesel DRW.  You’ll see… 

As an aside, this discussion reminds me of that post asking if anyone regretted buying too big a boat.  Someone replied something along the lines of “that’s like asking if your wife is too hot”.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by OtherBoatisaCessna

[Slayer]

@Ronnie, @ahopkinsVTX, perhaps get rid of the spammer posting about making 1000% with a crypto link in the prior post to mine.