Foiling vs Surfing -- Pros & Cons

[mxmark4]

Only one forward fall that made contact with the wing and that was enough to make sure I fell off back everytime after that. My fave is seeing how high I can shoot the foil out of the water when I fall off the back. My crew always seems to catch that part of my ride but never the pumping or great saves from getting way back on the wave. 

[mrothwell]

So, what size of wings is best to learn and use for a couple years?

[shawndoggy]

7 minutes ago, mrothwell said:

So, what size of wings is best to learn and use for a couple years?

size, experience, weight.... it's all gonna vary.  My learning experience was on an slingshot infinity 76 and at 175-185 it was a great place to start.

[CaptainMorgan]

16 minutes ago, mrothwell said:

So, what size of wings is best to learn and use for a couple years?

As @shawndoggy says, need more info for specific recommendations, but the slingshots generally get favorable intro reviews, though hard core folks will outgrow it. 

I'd stay away from anything high aspect (>6 maybe?).  If you see people doing dock starts and pumping across flat water forever, that's probably got poor maneuverability and tons of lift which makes it want to fly out of the water as you learn what front-foot-pressure really means (causing those awkward falls referenced above).

[hunter77ah]

45 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

size, experience, weight.... it's all gonna vary.  My learning experience was on an slingshot infinity 76 and at 175-185 it was a great place to start.

That's what I have too.  Its good to learn on and play with. 

[mxmark4]

Another one here with slingshot infinity 76. Great starter foil for me. Will be looking to upgrade, but served me well as a starter setup. 

[Slurpee]

I’ll say I’ve always been one to buy the gear I aspire to first. It’s never been a problem for me to advance to it quickly. Bikes, boards, bows, etc. But foiling…. Yeah you want that easy beginner setup first. 

[shawndoggy]

13 hours ago, Slurpee said:

I’ll say I’ve always been one to buy the gear I aspire to first. It’s never been a problem for me to advance to it quickly. Bikes, boards, bows, etc. But foiling…. Yeah you want that easy beginner setup first. 

If you can't make it through the first 90 seconds of a ride (or even the first 10), you never get to learn how to control the darn thing.  And as compared to about everything else that gets done behind the boat, the balance and foot pressure are different at best (and almost opposite to wakesurfing, where the urge to "hit the brakes"  = breaching).  

Which setup have you decided to stick with?

[martinarcher]

20 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

If you can't make it through the first 90 seconds of a ride (or even the first 10), you never get to learn how to control the darn thing.  And as compared to about everything else that gets done behind the boat, the balance and foot pressure are different at best (and almost opposite to wakesurfing, where the urge to "hit the brakes"  = breaching).  

Which setup have you decided to stick with?

Truth!!  That's the first thing I stress when teaching others to ride it....rethink your weight on your backfoot from surfing...especially during starts.  Get that nose down ASAP.  

[Slurpee]

57 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Which setup have you decided to stick with?

I kept the Dwarfcraft 120 and an Armstrong kit (72cm fuse, 60cm mast, 1200v1 and 300v1 wings).  Honestly everything is fine with the foil kit.  It's the board I should mess with.  It's got very little displacement so the only way to ride the foil on a start is to get out of the water instantly on launch.  Trying to make use of the board as anything more than a place to stand and apply leverage is useless.  It's too small to ride slow without initiating a breach.  That's where skipping the learning curve is a problem.  I ride my buddies foil that he got used for like $100 and has this big board and you can really start like a surfer and then move into the foil being engaged (as long as you watch that back foot pressure).

We've also learned that it's best to start with the rider on a side of the boat and launch into a turn.  Keeps the turbulence of the water off the wings while starting and getting a feel for the board.

[mrothwell]

22 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

size, experience, weight.... it's all gonna vary.  My learning experience was on an slingshot infinity 76 and at 175-185 it was a great place to start.

I'm at about 190, zero experience on foils, but been behind a boat my whole life.

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, mrothwell said:

I'm at about 190, zero experience on foils, but been behind a boat my whole life.

Infinity 76 on a big board wouldn't be a bad place to start.  As @Slurpee notes, you want a board that's big enough to ride on the surface at 5-6 mph like a wakesurfer, and doesn't require you to be "on foil" right out of the water.  My new/current board is like that and I'm still breaching on start 15-20% of the time... it's a very quick transition from "board has cleared surface of water" to "wing is breaching"  a second or two at most.

[CaptainMorgan]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:14 AM, Slurpee said:

I kept the Dwarfcraft 120 and an Armstrong kit (72cm fuse, 60cm mast, 1200v1 and 300v1 wings).  Honestly everything is fine with the foil kit.  It's the board I should mess with.  It's got very little displacement so the only way to ride the foil on a start is to get out of the water instantly on launch.  Trying to make use of the board as anything more than a place to stand and apply leverage is useless.  It's too small to ride slow without initiating a breach.  That's where skipping the learning curve is a problem.  I ride my buddies foil that he got used for like $100 and has this big board and you can really start like a surfer and then move into the foil being engaged (as long as you watch that back foot pressure).

We've also learned that it's best to start with the rider on a side of the boat and launch into a turn.  Keeps the turbulence of the water off the wings while starting and getting a feel for the board.

+1 for starting on side of the boat to keep turbulence low and also helps for drivers that don't quite understand how SLOW a pull up is really required.

however, i like having the small foil board -- i tried larger ones but once you are up on wing, its very sluggish and tons of inertia.  worst case was an inflatable one i tried early on, could nearly stand up without motion - it was basically a SUP with a wing underneath, as soon as it was off the water, i just could not move that thing.  now that i can ride reliably, would be interesting to go back and see if i could ride it, but the inertia worked against me as a newbie.

[CaptainMorgan]

one other Pro/Con observation from yesterday:  i surfed for a set and later foiled for a set -- the surfing definitely took more energy, better cardio/leg workout if you want one.  the foil is almost cheating it takes so little energy (more concentration, but legs not burning).  Granted, as i learn to flat water pump, that will get your heart racing (but i can't stay flying for more than ~10 sec so not quite enough to get exhausted yet).  But surfing early til legs were tired, then later foiling with less effort required was a nice balance.

[ROFF]

The foil has been a new challenge.    Ive been surfing for a few decades so its been really tough to get used to the different techniques of the foil.   Feel like the mast is too long.  

[kevinthayer00]

Sit down hydrofoiling and stand up hydrofoiling have been around for a long time but recently stand-up hydrofoiling popularity has exploded. This is largely due to advancements in the hydrofoils. Stand up hydrofoiling is low impact and very versatile. Sit down hyrofoiling is my passion. The stand-up hydrofoiling is super fun gets me on the water more often due to the low impact. It's a good compliment to other towed water sports. 

Kevin

 

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[kevinthayer00]

 

[Smokedvw]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:09 AM, kevinthayer00 said:

 

I got to say it is sick AF watching those air chairs.  There is only one guy on our lake who busts it out and does the flips . I tried it a few times but never got to that level.  I am getting into wing foiling (wing vs boat) this season and its learning curve is steeeeeeep.  I can foil behind the boat no issues.  Part of the issue is my board is too small and the wind we have is very gusty/not constant at our lake but I hope to at least get riding properly this year.

I've kited for 13+ years and loved it but I can launch at our cabin.

@Flyingsushi what foil are you riding for your wake thief moves?  I have been want to do this behind the ferries and larger boats out on the ocean here but have not done it yet.  Are you towing in then pumping over?  Thats something I was hoping to try this summer too.