Wakesurf tips for BIG guests?

[CaptainMorgan]

Had a neighbor come out who is around 6-3 and 280 lbs (at least) and he struggled to get out of the water.  He says he's surfed in the ocean many years ago, but had never tried wakesurfing before.  We gave it a half-dozen tries before his weak knee called it quits -- but curious if anyone has tips for getting bigger guys started? 

i was pulling slow for ~1-sec to set feet like a wakeboard start (getting set was fine) and then basically gunning it as its a lot of human to be pulling out of the water.  I had him on my 57" Phase 5 Diamond Turbo (biggest board i have).  i gave usual tips like stay tight/balled up, straight arms, etc but for that size guy can only compact so much and forces involved are high.

Should i pull super slow? is it better to start on super small board just to get the feel and make it easy to get board under you? or does it need to be a giant board for flotation?  any tips from bigger guys on what worked for you and drivers who pull big friends would be appreciated.

[ahopkins22LSV]

I think a bigger board and a more progressive acceleration is going to be better. He may drag a second or two longer but a quick hit is harder to control for newbies regardless of size in my experience.

[Ndawg12]

Tell them to try and plow against the boat, drag slowly until they get the board about straight up and down then hit it.  

[malibudog]

Big/strong guys tense up, and pull back against the rope, which as you know, makes it very difficult to get up.  A few ideas that have worked for us:  1) Before starting the boat, have them put their feet on board while holding the rope in the water and flip the board upright against the platform, so that you (sitting on the back of the boat), can simulate pulling forces for them.  Make them repeatedly extend their arms and RELAX their legs, lower back and shoulder muscles to get the feel of balling up.   Emphasize that any tension in their body at this point is going to make it much harder.  2) Emphasize that what they are trying to do is roll up onto the board, not push against the board and pull themselves up; 3) Tell them that their goal is to try to exert the minimum pulling forces possible on the handle.  Tell them they may be strong, but they are going to lose a pulling contest against 400 horses, the goal is to let the boat do all the work, and try to minimize how much pull there is, not to pull against the boat.  If you can get the feeling of trying to minimize the pull on the handle by following it forward as much as possible, you will have a much better chance.  Visualize laying on the ground, and your buddy trying to pull you up with a rope - if you tense up at all and pull against him, it won't work, but if you try to follow the handle up by rolling in a ball and minimize the pull he has to make, it will work.

We haven't found pull up speed to be near as important as technique, even for very large guys.  Big boards (think long surf style boards) definitely help.

 

 

 

[Ronnie]

I have a Doomswell El Jefe just for bigger guys. I pretty much pull like you explained above but I watch the rider to see what they need to get up. The rider just has to work for it and keep the board from turning out the side. Some of the bigger guys just can't do it

[smileysteve]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

basically gunning it

Never do this. In any watersport. (Though I do need full throttle eventually when slaloming behind a slower to plane boat). It'll present an impossible situation for most riders where they are more likely to give up, and if they don't get tired quickly.

I'm 225 and 6'1". I surf a 5'4" broadcast board. And my wife is on the same board @ 240lbs. (And she learned with me)

With surfing, I like to start slow, really slow. Start with as little weight/wedge (you can keep the surf gates) as you can until they get up. As other suggest use this time under 3mph to coach them balling up and finding their footing. Turning into them closes them in a pocket and I often find this helps them find the wave.

For bigger, older, weaker - or just can't figure out the transition - people there is a final option, and that's to "dock" start them off of a tube.

 

[CaptainMorgan]

I wasn't flooring it fully, but i was definitely pulling harder than i normally do and regretted it after seeing him struggle a couple times (before his knee said no more).  i think a longer drag / more progressive throttle like suggested by a few of you would help get that big body inertia started, but gotta coach him up on not fighting the boat -- maybe being a big guy makes it tempting to muscle things around cause on land many things can just be overpowered to get his way.

he is looking at getting his own board since he just bought a used Centurion himself, maybe i'll point him towards the El Jefe  

13 minutes ago, smileysteve said:

For bigger, older, weaker - or just can't figure out the transition - people there is a final option, and that's to "dock" start them off of a tube.

I've definitely used the tube-start to cheat for starting people surfing or wakeboarding, will keep that in my hip pocket for days when not many boats around

[Nitrousbird]

Big board and technique.  I have a buddy who is 6'5", probably in the 350-400lb range.  Has zero issues getting up behind our little VLX and going ropeless.  He rides what we like to call the Barn Door, which is really an Inland Surfer Red Rocket.  That board will get it done - way too big/buoyant for me (6'3", 218lbs).  I make sure the wave is tall and short for him, so he gets max push.

[REHinH20]

If you have a wakeboard that will work for him, try putting that on him instead of the surfboard.  This will let him get the feeling of how "rolling up" over the board will feel without the added difficulty of keeping the board in place.  Once he's getting up, toss the biggest surfboard you have to him and let him try that.  I've also had luck with lengthening the rope to let them get up further from the wake and boat.  Once they get the idea, i go back to a shorter rope.

[CaptainMorgan]

4 minutes ago, REHinH20 said:

If you have a wakeboard that will work for him, try putting that on him instead of the surfboard.  This will let him get the feeling of how "rolling up" over the board will feel without the added difficulty of keeping the board in place.  Once he's getting up, toss the biggest surfboard you have to him and let him try that.  I've also had luck with lengthening the rope to let them get up further from the wake and boat.  Once they get the idea, i go back to a shorter rope.

How much longer a rope? Like 10ft longer or out to 70 ft like wakeboarding? I've always found wakeboard starts harder for beginners as rope is pulling forward but not up - though prop wash is out of the equation 

I actually got his son up using the wakeboard trick with surf rope - in 2 tries kid was up and carving on the wave.  But no way he squeezes his 14W feet into my wakeboard...

[shawndoggy]

14 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

How much longer a rope? Like 10ft longer or out to 70 ft like wakeboarding? I've always found wakeboard starts harder for beginners as rope is pulling forward but not up - though prop wash is out of the equation 

I actually got his son up using the wakeboard trick with surf rope - in 2 tries kid was up and carving on the wave.  But no way he squeezes his 14W feet into my wakeboard...

everybody should be able to wakeboard at like 9 mph.  Wakeboard pulls should be super super easy if the rider rolls up and gets the board to "plane" under water at low speed.  If the rider is getting "waterboarded" (water over the board, extreme rope tension), then they are not rolling up (sliding butt to heels).  

Like this: 

This vid also has a good depiction of what should be happening underwater:

I have way more success getting really spazzy newbs up on a wakeboard than a surfboard.  After a few successful starts on a wakeboard, their surf start often** improves.

**but not always.  Some folks just.can't.do.it.

Edited September 7, 2022 by shawndoggy

[CaptainMorgan]

16 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

everybody should be able to wakeboard at like 9 mph.  Wakeboard pulls should be super super easy if the rider rolls up and gets the board to "plane" under water at low speed.  If the rider is getting "waterboarded" (water over the board, extreme rope tension), then they are not rolling up (sliding butt to heels).  

Like this: 

This vid also has a good depiction of what should be happening underwater:

I have way more success getting really spazzy newbs up on a wakeboard than a surfboard.  After a few successful starts on a wakeboard, their surf start often** improves.

**but not always.  Some folks just.can't.do.it.

those are great videos!  gonna become mandatory viewing if anyone wants to wakeboard (and is a good demo that i don't need to gun it, slow is fine). 

After a half dozen tries early on, my kids always popped right up w/ a wakeboard even with my mediocre instructions behind our old bayliner, so moving to surfing was easy peasy.  But most of our visitors are 1x/yr guests on the boat that want to try straight to surfing and i usually humor them to give it a try...the athletic ones often figure it out, but some folks can't seem to control their body to even start in the right position let alone control a board under their feet -- and thats when the Tube comes out and i die a little inside  

  

[REHinH20]

50 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

How much longer a rope? Like 10ft longer or out to 70 ft like wakeboarding? I've always found wakeboard starts harder for beginners as rope is pulling forward but not up - though prop wash is out of the equation 

I actually got his son up using the wakeboard trick with surf rope - in 2 tries kid was up and carving on the wave.  But no way he squeezes his 14W feet into my wakeboard...

nothing too long, just 5-10 feet.  Enough to just get him a little further from the wake.  I find many new riders that can't control where the board goes right after getting up, end up on the rooster tail, and with bigger wakes, that's too hard for them to recover from.

[shawndoggy]

1 minute ago, REHinH20 said:

nothing too long, just 5-10 feet.  Enough to just get him a little further from the wake.  I find many new riders that can't control where the board goes right after getting up, end up on the rooster tail, and with bigger wakes, that's too hard for them to recover from.

a side pull can help with that (a little).  I swear tho, we've had a few people who get up on the board and don't understand the concept of edging the board (AT ALL!!!) and they get pulled up the wave and right into the prop wash no matter how gently we start them, whether we go straight, turn into them, turn away from them, etc etc.  Super frustrating because it's purely a board control issue.

[shawndoggy]

17 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

those are great videos!  gonna become mandatory viewing if anyone wants to wakeboard (and is a good demo that i don't need to gun it, slow is fine). 

After a half dozen tries early on, my kids always popped right up w/ a wakeboard even with my mediocre instructions behind our old bayliner, so moving to surfing was easy peasy.  But most of our visitors are 1x/yr guests on the boat that want to try straight to surfing and i usually humor them to give it a try...the athletic ones often figure it out, but some folks can't seem to control their body to even start in the right position let alone control a board under their feet -- and thats when the Tube comes out and i die a little inside  

  

After seeing those vids a million years ago, I used to see how little work I could do to get up.  I could basically do NOTHING and be up and riding on top of the water (still curled in a ball with butt to heels).  People who struggle are usually TRYING to stand up.  They are muscling and turning and pulling and moving around. When all they really need to do is be still.