West Coast best price new-order dealer (or nationwide)?

[TeamIDFC]

(I've pulled this question out of my "X-2 newbie" thread to get maximum exposure).

You guys are slowly convincing me that I want all the features on a new 23 LSV, so buying a new boat is becoming more and more likely.  If I'm going with a new boat, it might just make sense to pick exactly what we want and order it to that spec.

I recent bought a new Tiffin motorhome, and the forums for it all directed everyone to "the big three" - 3 dealers near the factory and sold new coaches for cost + a bit of markup.  You marked up your option sheet and emailed it to all three of them and they got back with a price. 

In the RV industry at least, a new coach that is ordered for a specific customer usually doesn't have to be paid for until the new owner titles it, so the dealership is never floating any funds - they just take their 10k or whatever and move in.  If they've got sufficient allocation.

For the last few years it sounds like availability from Malibu has been an issue, but form what I hear those days are past and a new boat ordered now is likely to get delivered this fall.  AKA, they don't have much backlog.

Soo, Malibu Crew...  is there a version of those kinds of dealers for Malibu?  West Coast would be easiest, but nationwide for the right price I would think?

Also, we are starting to get into "end of season" pricing.  Does "boat show" pricing in the winter get that much better?     Thanks!

 

[csleaver]

Malibu dealers are strongly discouraged from selling outside of their sales area.  Your best bet is to contact a dealer in the area you live or where the boat will normally be used or serviced.

[tvano]

keep in mind that if you hope for warranty service, after the sale, you will encounter less issues buying at your local dealer.

[TeamIDFC]

1 minute ago, tvano said:

keep in mind that if you hope for warranty service, after the sale, you will encounter less issues buying at your local dealer.

No doubt.  And if the local dealer is 20k higher, I can solve a lot of problems with a check... 

Plus, at a minimum, I need a second dealer to bid on an order or I have literally no idea how competitive/not competitive the local dealer is.

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, TeamIDFC said:

No doubt.  And if the local dealer is 20k higher, I can solve a lot of problems with a check... 

Plus, at a minimum, I need a second dealer to bid on an order or I have literally no idea how competitive/not competitive the local dealer is.

See @csleaver's post above.  Dealers can lose their dealer status for selling out of territory.  There are no "clearinghouse" / "high volume" dealers that attract regional attention like that.  Some dealers are definitely better than others and some are more expensive than others.   IIRC you are in PNW?  An historically higher priced region.  Is what it is.

Edited August 22, 2022 by shawndoggy

[csleaver]

I would say that is an accurate statement and what I have observed when dealing with the very small niche market of water sports tow boats.  Outboard motor sales on the other hand is very different.  High volume dealers get a significant price advantage, and fewer sales limitations, when ordering and selling a large number of outboards. 

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

If you figure this one out, please let me know (seriously). I’m also seriously considering putting a new 23LSV on order.  My understanding is that out-of-territory dealers are not supposed to sell to you, but I haven’t tried it yet.  It seems that the way most people compare costs is in terms of percent-off-MSRP, and - just repeating what I have read here - it seems that for Malibu boats that can range between 10 and 30%.  For a data point, the opening “bid” my local dealer (also West Coast) gave me on a 2023 23LSV was 24% off MSRP.  I posted about this, too, and have no idea if that’s a good deal.  

A thought that occurs to me in writing that: Is 24% off MSRP a good deal when boat prices were increased by 20% over the last two years…?

I would also like to know from the brain trust: is “boat show” pricing even better than that?  When is the optimal time to buy - now, or in, like, October?  When are all these used boats going to hit the market?  I’d like to know what the used options are before buying new, but there are exactly zero used boats for sale near me, and if I wait to buy new until the used boats hit the market, will “new” pricing be higher?  Are they trying to get me to buy before those options present themselves?

Like I said, if you can sort through all this and figure out a good way to generate competitive pricing, let me know…

[CaptainMorgan]

45 minutes ago, OtherBoatisaCessna said:

 For a data point, the opening “bid” my local dealer (also West Coast) gave me on a 2023 23LSV was 24% off MSRP.  I posted about this, too, and have no idea if that’s a good deal.  

A thought that occurs to me in writing that: Is 24% off MSRP a good deal when boat prices were increased by 20% over the last two years…?

I would also like to know from the brain trust: is “boat show” pricing even better than that?  When is the optimal time to buy - now, or in, like, October?  When are all these used boats going to hit the market?  I’d like to know what the used options are before buying new, but there are exactly zero used boats for sale near me, and if I wait to buy new until the used boats hit the market, will “new” pricing be higher?  Are they trying to get me to buy before those options present themselves?

24% off seems like a solid deal. I'm sure someone has done better and many have done worse. 

yes, prices have gone up by 20ish percent, but folks were paying those same MSRP just 6 months ago.

Comes down to personal comfort with the deal and want/need to negotiate (do you walk away at 24 but buy at 25?) Its your toy so only you decide what is your threshold for going new at X% vs used vs other brand etc). Presumably you'll be working with the dealer on service or recalls or whatever, so having a good relationship with the dealer can pay dividends down the road.

It's also very tricky to compare boat sales as statistics are low/opaque,  change dramatically with season of the year and needs / trends vary by region (eg mountain locales may all get larger motors, coastal slots need galvanized trailers, etc). 

I suspect fall is a good time to order/buy as there should be some used inventory and leftover model years that give you negotiating options/comparison points and no rush. Waiting for a late winters boat show deal leaves less time to get it by summer and dealers know you are pressed for time.  Dealers also only get so many slots.

Me? I'm a bird in hand guy - respectable deal on a custom awesome boat that I can have soon? I'd take that over maybe saving a percent or two but waiting 6+ months worried if supply chain issues come up or someone talks me out of it or uses the funds for land based things that dont float. 

[mxmark4]

Makes me wonder what your price would be for your custom order boat versus my price seeing as my dealer is about 30 minutes from the Malibu plant here in Tennessee. I kinda want to take your build sheet to my local dealer and see what they would do on it. 

[shawndoggy]

If you are a cheapskate, or live where dealers charge a premium, it can make sense to buy a very lightly (say 1 year old) used boat from a less expensive area of the country and have it shipped to you ($3-5K using uship).  You can still get the warranty transferred to you (figure on $1500 for that between dealer and malibu charges), and you'll get the remaining boat warranty (but not lifetime hull warranty, and the warranty now becomes non-transferrable).  As summer turns to fall, it can be a good time to negotiate with a private party used seller who wants to eliminate the carrying cost over the winter.

I'm not sure how viable that's going to be this season though, because many 2022 owners bought boats with huge price bumps and paid top dollar (low discounts) on top of that, so it's probably going to be a little harder this season than in years past to find a smoking deal.  

Of course you are then taking on the risk that the boat arrives in good shape (sometimes they don't) and you'll always be the red headed stepchild when it comes to your dealer choosing to turn your boat quickly vs a boat they sold.

FWIW that's exactly what I did last year to get into our boat.

[TAQ44]

12 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

  Of course you are then taking on the risk that the boat arrives in good shape (sometimes they don't) and you'll always be the red headed stepchild when it comes to your dealer choosing to turn your boat quickly vs a boat they sold.

Exactly. My dealer is a west coast, NorCal dealer. They tell me straight up that they turn away jobs if they are not purchased from that particular dealership. They will do ZERO warranty work and potentially even no paid work for outside purchased boats as they are already too busy with their own “home purchased” boats to work on….

[EchelonMike]

Looking at OnlyInboards, there are 4 pages of 23 LSV's (both '22 and '23 model years) for sale.  I'd say more than half are new, and at least half of the 22's are new as well.  Many are in the Rockies and to the west.  Every tick of the clock towards fall works in your favor.  I'm pretty sure you can get a hell of a deal on a left over '22 in another month.

 

[Five Cent Worth]

16 hours ago, TeamIDFC said:

(I've pulled this question out of my "X-2 newbie" thread to get maximum exposure).

You guys are slowly convincing me that I want all the features on a new 23 LSV, so buying a new boat is becoming more and more likely.  If I'm going with a new boat, it might just make sense to pick exactly what we want and order it to that spec.

I recent bought a new Tiffin motorhome, and the forums for it all directed everyone to "the big three" - 3 dealers near the factory and sold new coaches for cost + a bit of markup.  You marked up your option sheet and emailed it to all three of them and they got back with a price. 

In the RV industry at least, a new coach that is ordered for a specific customer usually doesn't have to be paid for until the new owner titles it, so the dealership is never floating any funds - they just take their 10k or whatever and move in.  If they've got sufficient allocation.

For the last few years it sounds like availability from Malibu has been an issue, but form what I hear those days are past and a new boat ordered now is likely to get delivered this fall.  AKA, they don't have much backlog.

Soo, Malibu Crew...  is there a version of those kinds of dealers for Malibu?  West Coast would be easiest, but nationwide for the right price I would think?

Also, we are starting to get into "end of season" pricing.  Does "boat show" pricing in the winter get that much better?     Thanks!

 

Buying a boat isn't buying a motor coach or a new SUV for the wife.  You can't just ask another GMC dealer to quote you on the same Yukon.  We have 3 - 4 Malibu dealers within 2 - 3 hrs and the first question they ask is where do you live.  And yes, this is the same for MC, Supra and all others....

I have a '21 23 LSV for sale if you are interested.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by Five Cent Worth

[COOP]

16 hours ago, TeamIDFC said:

No doubt.  And if the local dealer is 20k higher, I can solve a lot of problems with a check... 

Plus, at a minimum, I need a second dealer to bid on an order or I have literally no idea how competitive/not competitive the local dealer is.

Pretty sure if you start pitting dealers against each other they will find out. Our sales manager always seems to know when someone from out of territory is trying to price shop.

Edited August 23, 2022 by COOP

[rennis]

24% off MSRP is a solid deal.  I wouldn't hesitate.

When one year-old used boats are selling somewhere in the same ballpark for what you're paying for a new one, that is a fair price.  Agreed the opacity in the industry is frustrating but if you benchmark against the gently used market it's rally easy to feel good about the OTD price on a custom order 'Bu or Axis, in my opinion.  

[TeamIDFC]

7 minutes ago, rennis said:

24% off MSRP is a solid deal.  I wouldn't hesitate.

I'd agree, for OtherBoatisaCessna (whose price that is) I'd just buy it.  My dealer is only at about a 20% discount thus far on in-stock boat, and less than that on a 2023 new order.  

I'll keep working them once we do the demo ride

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

26 minutes ago, rennis said:

24% off MSRP is a solid deal.  I wouldn't hesitate.

When one year-old used boats are selling somewhere in the same ballpark for what you're paying for a new one, that is a fair price.  Agreed the opacity in the industry is frustrating but if you benchmark against the gently used market it's rally easy to feel good about the OTD price on a custom order 'Bu or Axis, in my opinion.  

The one thing I don't love about our quote is that while it's got this 24% discount off MSRP, it has a bunch of "fluff" charges that get added back in after the fact.  Is this normal?  The way the quote works is essentially: 

 

MSRP - Discount + Freight ($3000) + "Dealer Prep" ($3000) + Docs, Taxes, Title, etc.  

 

While the boat looks like a boat at $X dollars after discount, by the time you add all the rest back in, it's way more than that... 

[shawndoggy]

$3K to get the boat to the west coast from TN is definitely fair (and probably less than the going rate on uship, which truth be told is much sketchier too).

Taxes and title fees are what they are, and are a local-only issue.

The boats come kinda not fully assembled, and without batteries from the factory.  Lots of threads on here about detail work that's being pushed to the dealers too.  They need to recoup  that somehow.

Are they charging you separately for pnp ballast bags?

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

23 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

$3K to get the boat to the west coast from TN is definitely fair (and probably less than the going rate on uship, which truth be told is much sketchier too).

Taxes and title fees are what they are, and are a local-only issue.

The boats come kinda not fully assembled, and without batteries from the factory.  Lots of threads on here about detail work that's being pushed to the dealers too.  They need to recoup  that somehow.

Are they charging you separately for pnp ballast bags?

Good question - I'm not really sure I understand how that works.  When the build sheet include PNP Ballast, that's only the plumbing, right?  Since it hasn't been specifically addressed, my guess is that yes, they would be charging extra for the bags.  

[shawndoggy]

15 minutes ago, OtherBoatisaCessna said:

Good question - I'm not really sure I understand how that works.  When the build sheet include PNP Ballast, that's only the plumbing, right?  Since it hasn't been specifically addressed, my guess is that yes, they would be charging extra for the bags.  

If they "threw those in" as a dealer sweetener, one could see how the dealer prep number gets a bit more reasonable.  Maybe get the first two service visits (20 and 50 hr) thrown in for "free" too?  The 20hr MUST be done at the dealer for warranty purposes according to the manual, so getting that one for free is a good point to negotiate.

[COOP]

48 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

If they "threw those in" as a dealer sweetener, one could see how the dealer prep number gets a bit more reasonable.  

Not really. Those rear bags only take a few minutes to put in.

[shawndoggy]

4 minutes ago, COOP said:

Not really. Those rear bags only take a few minutes to put in.

Right but they also cost $371 apiece right?  Im talking about including them in the price, not the act of installing. 

[hethj7]

You sound like you are already getting a fair deal and if you read around much, many of us buy based on the dealer as much/more than the brand.  You aren’t going to care how much you saved the first time there is an issue and you are at the back of the line or can’t even get in for service until your season is over.  If your local dealer is treating you fair now, go meet their service department now and form a relationship.  If that also checks out, I think you should probably pull the trigger.  
 

[TeamIDFC]

I've decided I want an M6 boat, and the best one the local dealer has is this one.  It's a nice boat and has most of the options we want, but they won't go below 176k.  Given what I've seen from other markets, that seems like an aggressive price premium and I'm frustrated that the apparent local-deal lock-in isn't leaving me much choice.

Anyone have words of advice?  Hold out all winter for a used boat?   See if boat show pricing gets any better?   

Mostly I'm just annoyed that they are playing very "sales-y" games like "for this price you have to do X and Y by Monday" sort of stuff and wish I had another option.

[CaptainMorgan]

10 minutes ago, TeamIDFC said:

I've decided I want an M6 boat, and the best one the local dealer has is this one.  It's a nice boat and has most of the options we want, but they won't go below 176k.  Given what I've seen from other markets, that seems like an aggressive price premium and I'm frustrated that the apparent local-deal lock-in isn't leaving me much choice.

Anyone have words of advice?  Hold out all winter for a used boat?   See if boat show pricing gets any better?   

Mostly I'm just annoyed that they are playing very "sales-y" games like "for this price you have to do X and Y by Monday" sort of stuff and wish I had another option.

same price for a custom build? 

If they have a product you want at a price you are willing to pay, then i could ignore the sales person attitude...but i also don't think this is a one-in-a-million deal that should require moving heaven and earth (just guessing that September demand isn't crazy high so something similar could be custom ordered and/or found used in near future).  If you delay (to either make a point or try further negotiation) and it really is gone by Monday....that could indicate that your local market is hot and that was a fair price afterall which is good data to know when doing a custom build and/or used shopping.