C&D EV Tow Test

[UWSkier]

2 hours ago, spikew919 said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2M6lhlsQiz/?igsh=MW0ycml6cnk0NnR2cw==
 

For people that can’t open it.  These guys took the bmw high end i7 ev and its premium fueled version 7 series and did a road trip of like 900 kilometers with same 2 stops along the way.  The gas version was actually cheaper and took less time  🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 ev’s do have their place just like horse and carriage, bicycles, scooters, roller blades heck even lawn mowers. 

Different use case, and pricey charging there.

For me, an EV (I don't own one but might someday) is an around-town vehicle.  It'd get plugged in whenever it's not driven since it'd live in a garage.  Even if I got the range-topping Tesla Model X or S with a 100kwh battery, with my roughly 13c/kwh electricity rate here, charging from empty to full would be roughly $13.  That's good for about 4-5 gallons of 91 octane, which is what you'd need for a gas vehicle of similar category.  It would typically be charging from 50% or more as starting SoC, or rarely more than $7.

[shawndoggy]

14 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

Different use case, and pricey charging there.

For me, an EV (I don't own one but might someday) is an around-town vehicle.  It'd get plugged in whenever it's not driven since it'd live in a garage.  Even if I got the range-topping Tesla Model X or S with a 100kwh battery, with my roughly 13c/kwh electricity rate here, charging from empty to full would be roughly $13.  That's good for about 4-5 gallons of 91 octane, which is what you'd need for a gas vehicle of similar category.  It would typically be charging from 50% or more as starting SoC, or rarely more than $7.

we just got my wife a (used) X5 PHEV.  looks like electricity is going to cost about $0.10 per mile to keep it running on battery for its 30 mile range, which is well within her to-the-gym-then-home-then-to-work-and-back-home daily circuit.  We have 220v service in the garage, so a rapid charger was as easy as plugging it in.  A lot cheaper than gas?  Nope.  But she hates going to the gas station (I mean who loves it?) and the convenience of only needing to fill up once in a long while is pretty compelling.  

This summer a friend and I did a 1000 mile round trip mountain biking trip in his model 3.  The drive was about 2hrs longer each way than it would've been in a gasser.  But it only cost $72 in electricity, which at $4 a gallon for gas (below market price at the time), would've equated to a 55 mpg car that could carry two bikes.  I'm not sure that car exists?  That said, I'm a hammer down road tripper and the 2 extra hours are kind of tough to swallow (I hate stopping for 5 minutes to pee and then having to pass the same people again), so it's not quite "there" yet for me.  But I think the phev is going to be a fun/interesting addition to the stable that will minimize weekly gas station trips and still permit easy road tripping.

[UWSkier]

If that PHEV was available in an X3 size, it'd be a strong contender for the wife and I.

Only issue I have with any hybrid is now you have two powertrains to go wrong, not just one.  And while I love German cars, I don't love German cars off warranty. 

 

[Sparky450]

10 hours ago, UWSkier said:

The near religious fervor is something I don't get about this topic.

EVs work great as vehicles for some and not for others.  The beauty of this country of ours is that consumers can choose what's best for them.

Both camps have these people. EV owners who think everyone should drive a golf cart and we're all destroying the planet with our dino-juice burning trucks and boats. ICE owners who look at EV owners and think they're blissful idiots.

Who cares?

I agree with most of what you say. However, in California, they have set a deadline on IC vehicles. We will no longer have the freedom to choose what is right for us. I am glad I have my Honda EU2000. Because I don’t believe they are legal to sell in California anymore. I had a friend yesterday say he could not buy one, or buy one on Amazon, and have it shipped to California. 
I cannot buy Happy Camper holding tank treatment in California. I send it to Texas and they ship it to me🙃🙃
my daughter lived in Phoenix for about 1-1/2 years. The supplements she bought there, she can’t buy here. the same product in another package is twice the money. They have to pass Proposition 65. 
I think we are all tired of having crap forced down our throats in a “FREE” nation. 
Rant Over!! 

Edited January 18 by Sparky450

[Sparky450]

3 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Different use case, and pricey charging there.

For me, an EV (I don't own one but might someday) is an around-town vehicle.  It'd get plugged in whenever it's not driven since it'd live in a garage.  Even if I got the range-topping Tesla Model X or S with a 100kwh battery, with my roughly 13c/kwh electricity rate here, charging from empty to full would be roughly $13.  That's good for about 4-5 gallons of 91 octane, which is what you'd need for a gas vehicle of similar category.  It would typically be charging from 50% or more as starting SoC, or rarely more than $7.

Not trying to beat up on you. 
I installed a charging outlet for a gentleman that drives to the bay are daily. He actually said it cost him more to drive his Tesla than a Camry that gets good mileage. 

[Hemmy]

Can’t imagine the battery on this would last very long.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2N0KpUuoeB/?igsh=ZGFkNjkwYXdleXhr

For the non IG crew.
https://fordauthority.com/2024/01/ford-f-150-lightning-switchgear-debuts-as-new-demonstrator/

Edited January 18 by Hemmy

[spikew919]

12 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Different use case, and pricey charging there.

For me, an EV (I don't own one but might someday) is an around-town vehicle.  It'd get plugged in whenever it's not driven since it'd live in a garage.  Even if I got the range-topping Tesla Model X or S with a 100kwh battery, with my roughly 13c/kwh electricity rate here, charging from empty to full would be roughly $13.  That's good for about 4-5 gallons of 91 octane, which is what you'd need for a gas vehicle of similar category.  It would typically be charging from 50% or more as starting SoC, or rarely more than $7.

Did you watch the reel? Home charging was about 15 bucks. The 40 minute fast charge is around 42 bucks.  

[shawndoggy]

9 hours ago, Sparky450 said:

Not trying to beat up on you. 
I installed a charging outlet for a gentleman that drives to the bay are daily. He actually said it cost him more to drive his Tesla than a Camry that gets good mileage. 

How much does his power cost per kWh?  I’d find that pretty hard to believe given current fuel prices in CA… but then again I don’t know what you guys are paying for power (and as a downwinder, someone has to pay to upgrade the janky grid there). 

[minnmarker]

We pay 11 cents per kWh.  It costs me about $1 to go 17 miles on electric.  At $3 per gallon of gas that's equivalent to 51 miles per gallon cost, so electric is the way to go with my BMW X5 plug in hybrid.  About half the price of gas.

Gas and electricity are more expensive in The People's Republic of California of course. 

[UWSkier]

4 hours ago, spikew919 said:

Did you watch the reel? Home charging was about 15 bucks. The 40 minute fast charge is around 42 bucks.  

yeah, they went on a road trip.  I'd never buy an EV as a road trip vehicle.  That's what my dino-juice burner is for. 

 

[hunter77ah]

With the plug in hybrid, does your state make you pay an ev surcharge at registration (to offset gas taxes that go to roads). I haven’t looked into it but was curious if it applied to cars that use “some” gas. 

[minnmarker]

6 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

With the plug in hybrid, does your state make you pay an ev surcharge at registration (to offset gas taxes that go to roads). I haven’t looked into it but was curious if it applied to cars that use “some” gas. 

Yep.  Wisconsin charges $180 per year extra for PHEVs.   That eats into the savings a bit but I'm still saving a lot using electric.

With the $6500 Federal tax credit the cost of the vehicle was the same as the gas only equivalent.

[UWSkier]

13 hours ago, Sparky450 said:

I agree with most of what you say. However, in California, they have set a deadline on IC vehicles. We will no longer have the freedom to choose what is right for us. I am glad I have my Honda EU2000. Because I don’t believe they are legal to sell in California anymore. I had a friend yesterday say he could not buy one, or buy one on Amazon, and have it shipped to California. 
I cannot buy Happy Camper holding tank treatment in California. I send it to Texas and they ship it to me🙃🙃
my daughter lived in Phoenix for about 1-1/2 years. The supplements she bought there, she can’t buy here. the same product in another package is twice the money. They have to pass Proposition 65. 
I think we are all tired of having crap forced down our throats in a “FREE” nation. 
Rant Over!! 

Yeah, well the only help I can give you there is to tell you to relocate to Arizona...

 

13 hours ago, Sparky450 said:

Not trying to beat up on you. 
I installed a charging outlet for a gentleman that drives to the bay are daily. He actually said it cost him more to drive his Tesla than a Camry that gets good mileage. 

Must be pricey electrons in CA (probably).

[teamerickson]

Here's real world experience for an almost 5 year EV owner in CA. I've owned the Ford 150 Lightning for the last year and a half. It's one of the most inefficient EVs there is.

I can charge at home, during the overnight hours, at .15 cent per KW. My battery is ~130 KWs. So about $19.50 to completely charge from 0-100% (130kw x .15cents = $19.50). I can go 270 miles on the freeway or about 320 in city driving.  So it costs me about $20 to drive 270 miles on the freeway. Let's compare that to the F150 ICE. Not sure what the MPG is? Let's say 25 on the freeway. 270 miles divided by 25MPG = 10.8 gallons. 10.8 x $5 = $54. So I save about $34.5 per fill up with freeway driving. City driving my fill up cost is the same, $19.5. F150 ICE get's about 18 in city? So 320 miles divided by 18 = 17.7 gallons. 17.7 gallons x $5 = $88.9. So I save about $69 on a fill up with city diving. 

That seems like a lot of savings to me? Plus the EV driving experience is 1000% better (more fun, easier), and it's the best tow vehicle there is. I could probably rip the trailer coupler apart if I wanted!

[redrooster]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:05 AM, 85 Barefoot said:

Nope, but it would be as a road-tripping rental vehicle when you don’t understand charging and Hertz requires recharging before return which was stupid.

If i am going on  a business trip or even vacation, do you think i want to worry about charging anything?  Like i said.. time is valuable.   There is a reason hertz is dumping EV..   they are not practical. 

[redrooster]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:16 AM, 85 Barefoot said:

Where besides Chicago, which was a unique enigma with a dearth of home charging and local Uber fleet with small-battery-model 3s?

We actually had power out around here for 3 days for some.  You should have seen all the EV folks freaking out online.   LOL.  talk about panic. 

[teamerickson]

5 minutes ago, redrooster said:

We actually had power out around here for 3 days for some.  You should have seen all the EV folks freaking out online.   LOL.  talk about panic. 

Can you use gas stations if the power is out?

[Cole2001]

Just had a massive cold snap here in western Canada. The Alberta provincial government actually put out an emergency alert saying to reduce electricity consumption and not charging electric cars was one of the main concerns noted.  Regardless at -50 electric cars won’t be charging very well anyways. Meanwhile the federal government is aiming to reduce the use of natural gas for heating and have a net zero energy emissions. 
Our current infrastructure is no where near cable or supporting the switch to electric cars. The technology is great but we aren’t there yet unfortunately. 

[minnmarker]

True.  That's why I got a PHEV.

Charge at home or cabin.  Gas when electric charging not available.  Baby steps?  Toddler steps?

[COOP]

2 hours ago, teamerickson said:

Here's real world experience for an almost 5 year EV owner in CA. I've owned the Ford 150 Lightning for the last year and a half. It's one of the most inefficient EVs there is.

I can charge at home, during the overnight hours, at .15 cent per KW. My battery is ~130 KWs. So about $19.50 to completely charge from 0-100% (130kw x .15cents = $19.50). I can go 270 miles on the freeway or about 320 in city driving.  So it costs me about $20 to drive 270 miles on the freeway. Let's compare that to the F150 ICE. Not sure what the MPG is? Let's say 25 on the freeway. 270 miles divided by 25MPG = 10.8 gallons. 10.8 x $5 = $54. So I save about $34.5 per fill up with freeway driving. City driving my fill up cost is the same, $19.5. F150 ICE get's about 18 in city? So 320 miles divided by 18 = 17.7 gallons. 17.7 gallons x $5 = $88.9. So I save about $69 on a fill up with city diving. 

That seems like a lot of savings to me? Plus the EV driving experience is 1000% better (more fun, easier), and it's the best tow vehicle there is. I could probably rip the trailer coupler apart if I wanted!

You dont get that range towing.

[teamerickson]

2 minutes ago, COOP said:

You dont get that range towing.

Duh Doy!!

[RTS]

1 hour ago, minnmarker said:

True.  That's why I got a PHEV.

Charge at home or cabin.  Gas when electric charging not available.  Baby steps?  Toddler steps?

Same here.  PHEV.  Don't see myself ever committing to full BEV unless/until I have no other choice.  I charge at home and work exclusively.  With work being within electric range, over 27,000 miles I have managed about 80% electric/20% gas.

But on trips or if the chargers at work are out of service (more often than I would have thought they would have been), I just go about my regular business and the engine gets me where I need to go.

[kstateskier1]

3 hours ago, teamerickson said:

Here's real world experience for an almost 5 year EV owner in CA. I've owned the Ford 150 Lightning for the last year and a half. It's one of the most inefficient EVs there is.

I can charge at home, during the overnight hours, at .15 cent per KW. My battery is ~130 KWs. So about $19.50 to completely charge from 0-100% (130kw x .15cents = $19.50). I can go 270 miles on the freeway or about 320 in city driving.  So it costs me about $20 to drive 270 miles on the freeway. Let's compare that to the F150 ICE. Not sure what the MPG is? Let's say 25 on the freeway. 270 miles divided by 25MPG = 10.8 gallons. 10.8 x $5 = $54. So I save about $34.5 per fill up with freeway driving. City driving my fill up cost is the same, $19.5. F150 ICE get's about 18 in city? So 320 miles divided by 18 = 17.7 gallons. 17.7 gallons x $5 = $88.9. So I save about $69 on a fill up with city diving. 

That seems like a lot of savings to me? Plus the EV driving experience is 1000% better (more fun, easier), and it's the best tow vehicle there is. I could probably rip the trailer coupler apart if I wanted!

What was the cost to install the charger at your house?

[redrooster]

3 hours ago, teamerickson said:

Can you use gas stations if the power is out?

you can drive somewhere else and fill up.   Pretty nice feature.  

can you imagine the lines at the few charging stations that are within 30 minutes of the power outage?? Plus the charging time???  

 

[teamerickson]

21 minutes ago, kstateskier1 said:

What was the cost to install the charger at your house?

$200 net.