01 Sunsetter Stereo update

[twitchee2]

I will give that a shot.  I haven't looked into if its only the cabin's but thats where I can tell the most.

[twitchee2]

looks like I am an idiot, turns out it was the USB power for the Bluetooth.  I must have thought I heard something when I tested it with a battery last time. Just tried it again this morning and when I use a battery as power, its crystal clear. Ordered an 3.5mm isolator, should be here tomorrow and fingers crossed that was the problem all along.

[shawndoggy]

25 minutes ago, twitchee2 said:

looks like I am an idiot, turns out it was the USB power for the Bluetooth.  I must have thought I heard something when I tested it with a battery last time. Just tried it again this morning and when I use a battery as power, its crystal clear. Ordered an 3.5mm isolator, should be here tomorrow and fingers crossed that was the problem all along.

“USB power for Bluetooth”. What does this mean?  What Bluetooth dongle are you using?

[twitchee2]

45 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

“USB power for Bluetooth”. What does this mean?  What Bluetooth dongle are you using?

Amazon cheapie I've been using for years.  Not this exact one, buts it similar.  Obviously not ideal, but its worked.

https://www.amazon.com/BK01-Bluetooth-Hands-Free-Wireless-Streaming/dp/B01MSUWCZ0/ref=sr_1_27?crid=2SJIPX6O81OEJ&keywords=bluetooth+to+3.5mm+adapter&qid=1660755370&sprefix=bluetooth+to+3.5mm+adapte%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-27

Edited August 17, 2022 by twitchee2

[shawndoggy]

I’d replace with a JL MBT-RX or one of its off brand cousins like this one. NVX Universal Waterproof Bluetooth 4.0 Audio Receiver for Marine / Boats / Cars / ATV [VUBT2] https://a.co/d/810ySDX
 

very easy to get the power and ground wired in common with the rest of your audio system. 

[twitchee2]

thats not a bad idea.  The little dongle i have does have play/pause and next song/previous song buttons that I do actually use.  But I may have to go for something like that instead.

[shawndoggy]

11 minutes ago, twitchee2 said:

thats not a bad idea.  The little dongle i have does have play/pause and next song/previous song buttons that I do actually use.  But I may have to go for something like that instead.

there's always something like this (that would also fit in your dash) 

https://www.amazon.com/MTX-AWBTSW-Bluetooth-Receiver-Control/dp/B07P14LJJ6/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_i=B07P14LJJ6&psc=1

but more $$$ too.

I like the simplicity of the JL dongle, and was really pleased with its sound quality.

Edited August 17, 2022 by shawndoggy

[twitchee2]

Alright @shawndoggy Ive tried a bunch of things. I think I need to retract my statement that the USB power device was the ground loop, it appears not to be.

 

#1 biggest change was hard wiring the receiver directly to the battery.  It is not perfect, but its better.

I got one of these, no change: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K1LLX5S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details 

One of these, no change: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XQYN77L?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I have a bunch of ferrite cores that I was going to try and put on the RCA cables to see if it makes a difference, I have my doubts. The only thing I have not touched at this point is the Remote enable from my rocker switch. It is supplying 12V to the receiver and amp enable. That power is coming from the original 12v bus that was supplying the receiver.

[shawndoggy]

1 minute ago, twitchee2 said:

I have a bunch of ferrite cores that I was going to try and put on the RCA cables to see if it makes a difference, I have my doubts. The only thing I have not touched at this point is the Remote enable from my rocker switch. It is supplying 12V to the receiver and amp enable. That power is coming from the original 12v bus that was supplying the receiver.

I'd get power and ground for the switch from the same common source as EQ/receiver, to eliminate the potential for a ground loop from the switch.

When you say that the receiver is hard wired directly to the battery, that's the power and ground for the BT receiver, right?  And that's also where your amp's power and ground connect and where you are getting power and ground for the EQ??

[twitchee2]

the BT is completely unplugged at this point.  It was the same terminal the amps ground to, the +12 for the amps is out of the perko switch, I have the exile receiver just on a +12 post of the battery itself at the moment.

[Sparky450]

I may have missed it but did you also put NEW rca cables on everything? 

[twitchee2]

17 minutes ago, Sparky450 said:

I may have missed it but did you also put NEW rca cables on everything? 

I have not. Yet...

[Sparky450]

46 minutes ago, twitchee2 said:

I have not. Yet...

That would be one of my first items. RCA’s will go bad. Change them one at a time. So you can tell which one it is. And if they are running next to power cable try and separate them. 

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, twitchee2 said:

the BT is completely unplugged at this point.  It was the same terminal the amps ground to, the +12 for the amps is out of the perko switch, I have the exile receiver just on a +12 post of the battery itself at the moment.

What about the ground for the exile EQ? To same place as amp?

agree with @Sparky450 re RCAs too. I actually thought you had replaced them when you tore your dash apart so didn’t mention. Stinger 4000s are what @Slurpee suggested last summer when I was going through the same exercise on my T22. 

[twitchee2]

Ok Updates now that its not 103* outside.  At this point my proof of concept is good. I actually fired it up on the hose to make sure the alternator noise was gone too.  If I there is any feedback, its well out of my ear calibration.  

Current (working) setup.  Cheapie amazon BT adapter that requires a USB power source that I have used for a few seasons at this point output to 3.5mm into a 3.5mm isolator into a 3.5mm to RCA adapter. I ran very temporary (laying across the floor) dedicated +12 and gnd (twisted as well) to the exile receiver, added a pig tail from the +12 input from the receiver and another from the remote enable.  I manually twisted the +12, amp enable and exile enable together. the noise is effectively gone and cannot be heard above any music or the engine running.  Out of the receiver, I have my existing RCA cables and I currently have some ferrite cores on the output of the cabin channel.  The cabin channel appears to be my main problem as it uses a splitter run 4 channels.  During my test I left the ferrites on, I will try to take them off in the future but at this point they are not hurting anything.

Fortunately, I already have an 8 gauge circuit pulled under the dash separate from the boat bus. I ordered a 4 circuit Blue sea fuse block to run everything dedicated.  I will re-wire my dash rocker switch for the amp and receiver enable.  Hopefully everything keeps working.  I did order some new RCA cables as well, but I think they will not be necesary.

I did notice the receiver and Bluetooth dropped out when I cranked the boat, this is new and I hope my batteries are just low.

[Slurpee]

15 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

What about the ground for the exile EQ? To same place as amp?

agree with @Sparky450 re RCAs too. I actually thought you had replaced them when you tore your dash apart so didn’t mention. Stinger 4000s are what @Slurpee suggested last summer when I was going through the same exercise on my T22. 

Good to hear you’re getting results. RCA cables are definitely worth an investment. If you’re not splitting them or breaking the connection somehow, then good ones come with a shield wire and maybe even a whole shield that is tied to the negative connection at one end only. You put these ends at your source unit usually. It helps a lot with any radiated noise from power cables. However, it doesn’t do a thing about conducted noise making it into the grounds of the amps. Best for that is what you did. Run dedicated power for the switch and sources to the helm direct from the battery. Dedicated power from the amps to battery. I have been usually running 1/0 from the battery to an amp board and from their distribute to the amps, helm, DSP, etc. 

 

[twitchee2]

Alright, I got it.  Simply running dedicated power cleaned it up.  I finished up the install with a BlueSea fuse box, fortunately I already had aux 8ga power already run so I just used that as my source.  I have a fused circuit powering the receiver and a fused circuit powering the remote enable for receiver and amps.  The ground spade on the original rocker switch pulled out when I was putting the new circuit in. $7 but so frustrating as it set me back another day.

I did not have to run new RCA cables so that was nice.  All in all, I think it is finally dialed in.

[shawndoggy]

4 hours ago, twitchee2 said:

$7 but so frustrating as it set me back another day.

This seriously has to be how west marine can stay in business with their insane prices. Sometimes you just gotta have it today!  
 

glad you got results!  Chasing noise can be suuuuuuuuuuuuper frustrating. 

[twitchee2]

28 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

This seriously has to be how west marine can stay in business with their insane prices. Sometimes you just gotta have it today!  
 

glad you got results!  Chasing noise can be suuuuuuuuuuuuper frustrating. 

yeah insane.

Yep,  I have a servo electronics background and noise is just unexplainable sometimes. I am used to dealing with it in the mhz range which gets on everything.  I bet if I had put a small cap on the main under dash supply, it would have cleaned it up too.

Edited August 26, 2022 by twitchee2