01 Sunsetter Stereo update

[twitchee2]

My 01 sunsetter has the stereo the previous owner had installed when I bought it 8 years ago other than the new cabin speakers.  I need to update the input side of the stere and you guys are probably way more up to date on this than I am.  

Currently, it has a single din Sony head unit under the arm rest that constantly gets knocked around and is always cutting out when I hit a wave or if I lean to hard on the arm rest.  The head unit has 2 remote controls connected to it, one on the transom and one in easy reach for volume control at the dash.  I currently have a cheapie Bluetooth to aux adapter I use and it certainly works. The transom remote is something I am concerned about losing, I really like have that functionality.

I honestly do not even know what amps I have but there are 3.  One drives the 4 cabin speakers, one drives my 2 OG wetsounds tower speakers and one drives a single 10" sub.  I have a remote gain pot for the tower and sub to turn them up and down quickly and independently at the dash. I believe all the channels are connected via RCA cables.

I don't have a necessarily have budget but I don't need to go overboard. I have been looking at wetsounds ws-420-bt which would be awesome, but I am not sure if that is right for me.

What do you guys think?

[twitchee2]

Garmin Fusion head units seem really interesting.  Anyone used these before?

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/520064/pn/010-01516-01#specs

 

edit - looks like the wetsounds ws-420 series might be the way to go with a transom remote.  I really only use bluetooth, so if that is built in

Edited July 25, 2022 by twitchee2

[Stoef]

Curious to see what you come up with, I'm in the market as well for my 2000 Sunsetter. I like the look of the Garmin, going to check out the Wetsounds. 

[Nitrousbird]

I'm not aware of a transom remote option with the WS420.

I run the Fusion MS-RA210 head unit and NRX300 transom remote.  After the firmware update to the head unit, it has been great.  It has multiple zones and works well.  

[Bozboat]

14 hours ago, twitchee2 said:

Garmin Fusion head units seem really interesting.  Anyone used these before?

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/520064/pn/010-01516-01#specs

 

edit - looks like the wetsounds ws-420 series might be the way to go with a transom remote.  I really only use bluetooth, so if that is built in

If you are streaming to a BT from your phone, what would you use the Garmin/any head unit for?    I ditched the head unit under the armrest years ago and don't miss it at all.  BT to WS420 or get a WS with built in BT.

[Nitrousbird]

1 minute ago, Bozboat said:

If you are streaming to a BT from your phone, what would you use the Garmin/any head unit for?    I ditched the head unit under the armrest years ago and don't miss it at all.  BT to WS420 or get a WS with built in BT.

And what transom remote are you using?  That's the big factor in this equation.

[Bozboat]

3 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

And what transom remote are you using?  That's the big factor in this equation.

I don’t use a transom remote and I am not sure how you can patch a transom remote into the wetsounds set up. @twitchee2 mentioned using the WS420 with a transom remote.  A transom remote solution would be nice when swimming near the boat.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Bozboat

[shawndoggy]

Agree it's way simpler if you don't have a transom remote.  Just run an EQ (with built in bluetooth, or with a dongle) and call it a day.  We only stream music on our boat so access to FM or weather band or whatever seems superfluous.  When I redid the stereo on the T22 last year I set it up with the Fusion HU into an EQ, on the hopes that I'd hear a discernable difference between the airplay signal of the HU and the BT dongle on the EQ.  No such luck... the BT sounded just as good (to my ear anyhow), and having the phone mounted in a solid marine wireless charging mount within easy reach won the day.  Never touched the fusion unit after the first couple of times out.  

Basically running things the same way on the new boat, albeit with a more confusing headunit menu system to navigate for zone control (as opposed to a fader knob between tower and cabin with an EQ).

[twitchee2]

I completely agree with everyone that the HU is useless when using BT.

The transom remote is definitely makes this challenging and potentially cost prohibitive.  I just got off the phone with wet sounds and you have use something like their MC1 to use in conjunction with a transom remote. Unfortunately, I would have to get really creative to mount that somewhere and frankly its unnecessary.

Back to the drawing board for now.  

I may have to just forgo the transom remote and deal with the Sony remote there as a place holder. Not really any issue to anyone but me haha.

[Nitrousbird]

21 minutes ago, twitchee2 said:

I completely agree with everyone that the HU is useless when using BT.

The transom remote is definitely makes this challenging and potentially cost prohibitive.  I just got off the phone with wet sounds and you have use something like their MC1 to use in conjunction with a transom remote. Unfortunately, I would have to get really creative to mount that somewhere and frankly its unnecessary.

Back to the drawing board for now.  

I may have to just forgo the transom remote and deal with the Sony remote there as a place holder. Not really any issue to anyone but me haha.

No reason to forgo the transom remote.  Look at the pics I linked - a cheap mount for the head unit is all it took.  Head unit under the arm rest is all bad.  I converted mine into a storage pocket and moved my docking light switch in there.  We use our transom remote WAY too much to go without one, which is why I went the Fusion route after my Alpine setup I did 11 years ago started having issues.

[shawndoggy]

45 minutes ago, twitchee2 said:

I completely agree with everyone that the HU is useless when using BT.

The transom remote is definitely makes this challenging and potentially cost prohibitive.  I just got off the phone with wet sounds and you have use something like their MC1 to use in conjunction with a transom remote. Unfortunately, I would have to get really creative to mount that somewhere and frankly its unnecessary.

Back to the drawing board for now.  

I may have to just forgo the transom remote and deal with the Sony remote there as a place holder. Not really any issue to anyone but me haha.

There’s always something like this (haven’t used this, just linking for concept): MTX MUDBTRC Universal Boat Motorcycle Bluetooth Audio Receiver & Remote Control https://a.co/d/6ZMu8iG

that would work with just a BT eq. You could adjust volume and advance tracks. I’m sure some people must scroll through their sources from the transom and you couldn’t do that, obvs. 

EDIT: oops, no, that's more of a HU replacement.  it would need to be more something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Bluetooth-Steering-Control-Compatible/dp/B085BYDHG9/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2FQOTXKNLLY0N&keywords=marine+bluetooth+remote+control&qid=1658770985&s=electronics&sprefix=marine+bluetooth+remote+control%2Celectronics%2C145&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE0NlJDWlRHWExMN0gmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3ODE4NTIzNUk1RVVLWVJHRE0wJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyNzc3NDczVTBLNUs1MEVOQTcwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Or you could just put a beer tap where the transom remote was and call it a day?

Edited July 25, 2022 by shawndoggy

[Nitrousbird]

17 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

There’s always something like this (haven’t used this, just linking for concept): MTX MUDBTRC Universal Boat Motorcycle Bluetooth Audio Receiver & Remote Control https://a.co/d/6ZMu8iG

that would work with just a BT eq. You could adjust volume and advance tracks. I’m sure some people must scroll through their sources from the transom and you couldn’t do that, obvs. 

EDIT: oops, no, that's more of a HU replacement.  it would need to be more something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Bluetooth-Steering-Control-Compatible/dp/B085BYDHG9/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2FQOTXKNLLY0N&keywords=marine+bluetooth+remote+control&qid=1658770985&s=electronics&sprefix=marine+bluetooth+remote+control%2Celectronics%2C145&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE0NlJDWlRHWExMN0gmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3ODE4NTIzNUk1RVVLWVJHRE0wJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyNzc3NDczVTBLNUs1MEVOQTcwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Or you could just put a beer tap where the transom remote was and call it a day?

The problem with 2nd remote you linked was the volume control is only for the Bluetooth output of the streaming device.  If you are running Speed of Sound (or a similar app for speed based volume control), you have no control over the sound while the app is running.

Example, wife is pulling me.  I fall, when I get back to the boat I make a quick volume adjustment on the transom remote so that when we are up to surf speed again it will be at the level I want.  This way I can do this without bothering her with another thing to deal with.

[shawndoggy]

1 minute ago, Nitrousbird said:

The problem with 2nd remote you linked was the volume control is only for the Bluetooth output of the streaming device.  If you are running Speed of Sound (or a similar app for speed based volume control), you have no control over the sound while the app is running.

Example, wife is pulling me.  I fall, when I get back to the boat I make a quick volume adjustment on the transom remote so that when we are up to surf speed again it will be at the level I want.  This way I can do this without bothering her with another thing to deal with.

haha I just use the time tested universal old man hand cupped to the ear "what?!" signal.

LOL actually I've given up on being able to hear the music when I'm behind the boat.  My wife hates driving with a loud stereo, and it's not a hill to die on for me.

But in any event, the use case I hear most often for a transom remote is not to adjust volume between pulls, but rather to adjust from the platform while people are swimming/floating.  It'd work fine for that purpose (assuming speed control app is disabled, which it prolly would be, I assume).

[twitchee2]

Honestly, all I use the rear transom remote for is to control the volume when we are anchored up and floating that way someone doesn't have to climb in the boat to turn the volume up.

Exile Audio had an open box ZLD equalizer for a discount so I jumped on that.  

[twitchee2]

I think I have decided to forgo the transom remote for now.  I am going to get my system up and going and then figure out if I miss the transom remote or not. 

[mxmark4]

If you go with fusion they have what they call remotes that are about 50 bucks. You can link up to 5 of them to a head unit and control volume and tracks with out buying the nrx300 transom remote. Just another option. My boat has the fusion setup and it works well. I swapped amps earlier this year and had an issue where I didnt replace the ground wire for the head unit and thought it was dead. I bought a bluetooth adapter with rca outputs to hook directly into my amp. It worked ok but even the lowest volume on my phone was too loud. Oter than that it worked well until I discovered my missed ground wire for fusion unit. 

[Nitrousbird]

On 7/30/2022 at 7:18 AM, mxmark4 said:

If you go with fusion they have what they call remotes that are about 50 bucks. You can link up to 5 of them to a head unit and control volume and tracks with out buying the nrx300 transom remote. Just another option. My boat has the fusion setup and it works well. I swapped amps earlier this year and had an issue where I didnt replace the ground wire for the head unit and thought it was dead. I bought a bluetooth adapter with rca outputs to hook directly into my amp. It worked ok but even the lowest volume on my phone was too loud. Oter than that it worked well until I discovered my missed ground wire for fusion unit. 

I wouldn't use one of those for a transom (too simple - I want something that can show what is play and do other functions), but makes a great steering wheel control:

[mxmark4]

Agreed but if budget is king you could use that in a pinch. I like the idea of using it as a steering wheel control!

[Steve B.]

For the folks usingn blue tooth, you are using your phones as the transmitter yes? I have an almost identical system as twitchee's. I equally us FM, Sirius and USB from my Ipod. Love the quick EQ controls on the under arm rest Kenwood.

My ultimate system would be a large android or mac tablet you toss around the boat that is both source, controller, mixer on a small lan that can end up talking completely with all the devices in the chain giving you gain, patching... everything.

Steve B.

[shawndoggy]

4 hours ago, Steve B. said:

For the folks usingn blue tooth, you are using your phones as the transmitter yes? I have an almost identical system as twitchee's. I equally us FM, Sirius and USB from my Ipod. Love the quick EQ controls on the under arm rest Kenwood.

My ultimate system would be a large android or mac tablet you toss around the boat that is both source, controller, mixer on a small lan that can end up talking completely with all the devices in the chain giving you gain, patching... everything.

Steve B.

iPhone via bt can control gain and I’m sure android devices can too (but I’m ignorant). Definitely nice for speed based volume control apps whilst engaging in Watersports. 

[twitchee2]

On 7/31/2022 at 4:32 PM, Nitrousbird said:

I wouldn't use one of those for a transom (too simple - I want something that can show what is play and do other functions), but makes a great steering wheel control:

Well that is super slick. nice setup.

 

I started tearing mine apart. I cant wait to get this all cleaned up.

[twitchee2]

Well everything is back in and running. However, I have a bunch of feedback coming from the alternator and ballast pumps.  I cleaned up tons of grounds so I think that may not be the issue.  The only grounds I did not touch were directly at the amps or on the engine block block itself, hard to believe that is where the problem is, but who knows. I did check the resistance of those cable and they seem great.

The ZLD ground is the main ground bus under the dash. It have a 6ga cable from that bus bar to the battery.  All of those connections were removed and cleaned with a wire brush. 

I tried using a battery bank as my power source for the bluetooth adapter so that is not the problem.

I did order some clamp on ferrite chokes, those tend to do quite a lot to clean up noise however it is still a bandaid. the thing that is bothering me is this happened out of the blue with my old sony head unit, I want to know what could have changed.  Are there any filters or something that could have gone bad on the alternator?

Any suggestions? I am all ears?

[shawndoggy]

16 minutes ago, twitchee2 said:

Well everything is back in and running. However, I have a bunch of feedback coming from the alternator and ballast pumps.  I cleaned up tons of grounds so I think that may not be the issue.  The only grounds I did not touch were directly at the amps or on the engine block block itself, hard to believe that is where the problem is, but who knows. I did check the resistance of those cable and they seem great.

The ZLD ground is the main ground bus under the dash. It have a 6ga cable from that bus bar to the battery.  All of those connections were removed and cleaned with a wire brush. 

I tried using a battery bank as my power source for the bluetooth adapter so that is not the problem.

I did order some clamp on ferrite chokes, those tend to do quite a lot to clean up noise however it is still a bandaid. the thing that is bothering me is this happened out of the blue with my old sony head unit, I want to know what could have changed.  Are there any filters or something that could have gone bad on the alternator?

Any suggestions? I am all ears?

Ground and power the ZLD directly to the power and ground of one of your amps.  Like solder a little tip on the wire and jam it in (with appropriate fuse on B+) with the amp's power and ground.  That's 100% step #1.  The factory ground bus is often a source of noise.  The fewer links in the power and ground chain between all audio components the better. 

Where are the amps grounded / where are they getting B+?

Edited August 15, 2022 by shawndoggy

[twitchee2]

2 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Ground and power the ZLD directly to the power and ground of one of your amps.  Like solder a little tip on the wire and jam it in (with appropriate fuse on B+) with the amp's power and ground.  That's 100% step #1.  The factory ground bus is often a source of noise.  The fewer links in the power and ground chain between all audio components the better. 

Where are the amps grounded / where are they getting B+?

All 3 amps have their own 2 or 4ga wire with inline fuse for the B+ (12V to battery). Their ground again in the same directly to the battery. I did not touch anything with the amp installation, everything is how its been for as long as I have owned the boat. These are the only connections I did not touch.

My zld is has B+ from from the factory 10amp breaker that used to be the source for the old HU. B- is tied to the factory ground bus under the dash. I did clean all of those connections and verified the resistance of that cable.  The Amp enable and ZLD enable is coming from a dash rocker switch.

 

[shawndoggy]

Still... move the zld power and ground in common with the amps.

You may want to move the rocker switch power (and ground if the switch is illuminated) too, just to start eliminating potential sources of ground interference.  

Is the noise present in all speakers (tower and cabin)?