2002 Sunscape 21 LSV - help with surf setup

[Dmoney24]

We’ve got a 2002 Malibu Sunscape 21 LSV, with a Wedge.  How do I setup the boat with weight (sacs) to create a good surf wake?  I have a Swell Wakesurf shaper.  Thanks!

Edited July 12, 2022 by Dmoney24
Misspelled word

[UWSkier]

@Nitrousbird

[Nitrousbird]

I have the same hull.  My setup, which I've posted here a few times:

- 1100's in each locker
- Sack under the port seat, approx 300lbs
- Center locker bag (~500lbs)
- Under seat bow bag (~300lbs)
- 100lbs lead stuffed in the nose, another 200 under the bow filler
- 200lbs lead at the back of the boat as needed; mine are stuffed 100 each side next to the hull behind the interior
- Floating Wedge
- Cheap suck gate

All on reversible pumps - zero exposed ballast

6'3" rider (me), no gear, driver only in the boat

[Dmoney24]

16 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

I have the same hull.  My setup, which I've posted here a few times:

- 1100's in each locker
- Sack under the port seat, approx 300lbs
- Center locker bag (~500lbs)
- Under seat bow bag (~300lbs)
- 100lbs lead stuffed in the nose, another 200 under the bow filler
- 200lbs lead at the back of the boat as needed; mine are stuffed 100 each side next to the hull behind the interior
- Floating Wedge
- Cheap suck gate

All on reversible pumps - zero exposed ballast

6'3" rider (me), no gear, driver only in the boat

Thanks much!

[Brad B]

Dont be shy with the bow ballast. Thats what gives your wave some length. Lots of rear ballast gives it height. Center ballas helps with the push. Suck gate tells the wave which side to play on.

[Dmoney24]

Just now, Brad B said:

Dont be shy with the bow ballast. Thats what gives your wave some length. Lots of rear ballast gives it height. Center ballas helps with the push. Suck gate tells the wave which side to play on.

👍

[Dmoney24]

17 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

I have the same hull.  My setup, which I've posted here a few times:

- 1100's in each locker
- Sack under the port seat, approx 300lbs
- Center locker bag (~500lbs)
- Under seat bow bag (~300lbs)
- 100lbs lead stuffed in the nose, another 200 under the bow filler
- 200lbs lead at the back of the boat as needed; mine are stuffed 100 each side next to the hull behind the interior
- Floating Wedge
- Cheap suck gate

All on reversible pumps - zero exposed ballast

6'3" rider (me), no gear, driver only in the boat

Thanks! What bag do you have exactly for under the bow seat?  

[Nitrousbird]

1 hour ago, Dmoney24 said:

Thanks! What bag do you have exactly for under the bow seat?  

Fly High W711

[Brad B]

Does that one have the coolers under the bow seats?

[Dmoney24]

1 hour ago, Brad B said:

Does that one have the coolers under the bow seats?

Nope, the cooler is in the Starboard quarter just ahead of the back bench seat

[Dmoney24]

So i set up the boat, filled the sacs, and suck gate.  Got it dialed in. Nice wake. But boat was only going about 10.5 mph and was really working hard.  To the point that it was scaring me. I’m guessing there is an issue with the boat.  Any ideas? Checked engine and seemed fine.  But on right side the top of that manifold was really hot.

[UWSkier]

Which prop are you using? Wakesurfing wasn't really a consideration from the factory back then, especially with a suck gate since those add tons of drag. 

I quit surfing before shapers were a thing but on that hull, I used to run wedge down, 600 lbs rear left locker, 600 lbs under left side seats, and 500lbs in the bow on the left side. Never did check the speed but depending on the crew load, 2100-2300 RPM with the stock 381 prop was all we needed to surf ropeless all day, though it was a short wave. 

[Sparky450]

1 hour ago, Dmoney24 said:

So i set up the boat, filled the sacs, and suck gate.  Got it dialed in. Nice wake. But boat was only going about 10.5 mph and was really working hard.  To the point that it was scaring me. I’m guessing there is an issue with the boat.  Any ideas? Checked engine and seemed fine.  But on right side the top of that manifold was really hot.

@Nitrousbird

What Prop? 
I ran a 1235 on my 07 at sea level 
😎

Edited July 18, 2022 by Sparky450

[Dmoney24]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:48 AM, UWSkier said:

Which prop are you using? Wakesurfing wasn't really a consideration from the factory back then, especially with a suck gate since those add tons of drag. 

I quit surfing before shapers were a thing but on that hull, I used to run wedge down, 600 lbs rear left locker, 600 lbs under left side seats, and 500lbs in the bow on the left side. Never did check the speed but depending on the crew load, 2100-2300 RPM with the stock 381 prop was all we needed to surf ropeless all day, though it was a short wave. 

It’s an ACME 537 4-blade 13.5” X 16”

[Dmoney24]

On 7/12/2022 at 3:32 PM, Nitrousbird said:

I have the same hull.  My setup, which I've posted here a few times:

- 1100's in each locker
- Sack under the port seat, approx 300lbs
- Center locker bag (~500lbs)
- Under seat bow bag (~300lbs)
- 100lbs lead stuffed in the nose, another 200 under the bow filler
- 200lbs lead at the back of the boat as needed; mine are stuffed 100 each side next to the hull behind the interior
- Floating Wedge
- Cheap suck gate

All on reversible pumps - zero exposed ballast

6'3" rider (me), no gear, driver only in the boat

How do you keep the lockers (and under the bow) from getting mildew/etc. with those fatsacs in there all the time, and the water/moisture under the sacs?  

[UWSkier]

18 minutes ago, Dmoney24 said:

It’s an ACME 537 4-blade 13.5” X 16”

Go out and run it empty for a while and check your manifolds again.  They should be the same temperature.  If one is appreciably hotter than the other, you have a flow restriction in the cooling path somewhere.  If that's all good, then I'd suggest propping down.  The 537 was a decent enough wakeboarding prop moderately loaded, but it is going to struggle to push heavy ballast with a shaper without lugging and overworking your engine.

[Brad B]

1 hour ago, Dmoney24 said:

It’s an ACME 537 4-blade 13.5” X 16”

Change to 1235 if you're gonna surf.

[Brad B]

1 hour ago, Dmoney24 said:

How do you keep the lockers (and under the bow) from getting mildew/etc. with those fatsacs in there all the time, and the water/moisture under the sacs?  

We keep our boat on a lift. When we pull in we empty and take out corner seats and leave ski locker door open. Then I go back the next day and put the cover on. We aren't using sacs in the bow anymore - we use 600 lbs of lead. We have the coolers under the bow seats so we just fill em full a lead. Then after about Halloween we pull all the sacs and clean em up and put them back when we de-winterize in March or so.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Brad B
update

[Dmoney24]

2 hours ago, Brad B said:

Change to 1235 if you're gonna surf.

So I slalom behind the boat as well, quite a bit (which is why I bought this boat, for the ski hull).

The surfing is for the boys (and me I’m sure 😂).

How do I confirm what prop i actually have?  I bought it used…but he told me it was a 537 ACME.  What is that for exactly (benefit wise)?

[Brad B]

537 is pretty common stock prop so probably correct. Get a 1235 and keep the 537 as a spare. We slalom too - just leave the lead on the dock. The 1235 will slalom or even foot just fine. You only lose a couple mph off the top end but we still get 49 mph with a 23LSV. They tell the 1235 is cupped specifically for heavy ballasting

[Dmoney24]

Thanks for all the feedback!  A 1235 prop is on order!

[Nitrousbird]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:12 AM, Dmoney24 said:

How do you keep the lockers (and under the bow) from getting mildew/etc. with those fatsacs in there all the time, and the water/moisture under the sacs?  

None in the bow, not sure why.  Nor under the port seat.  They must get enough airflow.  Ski locker has no carpet and I drain it after each trip.  Rear lockers do get a bit of browning on the carpet and it stays damp under the bags.  I usually remove the bags at the end of the season and power wash the carpet in there once a year.  Good enough - if it was a real problem I'd pull it and coat it with bedliner, but isn't really an issue.  

[Nitrousbird]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:40 PM, Dmoney24 said:

Thanks for all the feedback!  A 1235 prop is on order!

Not a great choice unless you are buying a used one at a good deal (they are pretty easy to find used).  1235 was the thing to do 10+ years ago - now there are better 15" options to choose from.

[Smokedvw]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:42 PM, Nitrousbird said:

Not a great choice unless you are buying a used one at a good deal (they are pretty easy to find used).  1235 was the thing to do 10+ years ago - now there are better 15" options to choose from.

For Slalom as well with a 15"?

This is where I am at in our 2001 VLX.  I put the bags in earlier in the season but didnt change the prop and just took them out until I finally do.  I have been wondering what is the best "modern" prop that still does well for Slalom, tubing and general cruising. 

[Brad B]

The 1235 has worked great for us for slalom too.