Weigh Safe, 2022 25 LSV and what size ball?

[familyfun]

Getting our 2022 25 LSV in May, so going back over our towing needs.  I went through this a while ago, and technically I have what I need to get it the short drive home from the dealer, but looking at if I want to do something different for longer towing.  I will be towing it with a 2000 F350 Diesel crew cab long bed with the HD tow package, so no issue their.  I also have a straight hitch with both a 2" and 2 5/16 ball.  Now the height might not be right, but again, it will get me the short drive home.

I am considering the Weigh Safe WS4-2 (4" drop, 2" receiver shaft).  Which I know some of the members here use (Weigh Safe at least, not necessarily this specific model).  I need to take some measurements on my truck to double check what drop/rise I need, but I have seen here what the 2022 25 LSV tongue height is so figuring out drop/rise needed won't be an issue.  So the question I have is what ball size does the 2022 25 LSV dual axel (if that matters) take?  Did some searching here and previous years 25 LSV seemed to take a 2".  The 2" ball that comes with the Weigh Safe is only rated at 8000 lbs.  From what I have seen here a fully loaded gas+gear 2022 25 LSV boat+trailer weighs more than that (in the 9000 lbs range).  So has Malibu moved to 2 5/16 for the 2022 25 LSV?  I believe that you can get some 2" balls rated at 10000 lbs (based on a larger ball shaft size), but again the Weigh Safe 2" is 8000 lbs.

So for you with 2022 25 LSV's, what hitch ball size do you have?

Edited April 20, 2022 by familyfun

[bigskydoc]

All Malibu boat trailers, except the M240, use a 2" ball.

I'm of the opinion that the Weigh Safe is not particularly helpful for trailers with a fixed weight distribution. It can be helpful for trailers, like a dump bed or flat bed, where a heavy load can be moved fore and aft, affecting the tongue weight, and thus trailer stability. 

As long as your trailer is near level, your tongue weight won't be a concern, given your tow vehicle. Gross trailer weight, on the other hand...  25 LSVs, with full fuel tank, coolers, etc, plus the trailer, can easily exceed 9k lbs. The only way to know for sure is to weigh it on a scale. 

Any ball and hitch that are rated for 10k will do fine, as long as you are running near level.  You're going to want about 26" from the ground to the top of the ball. For the short tow home, you can get away with whatever you already have.  

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by bigskydoc
Sounds like a needed change was made for 2022

[familyfun]

Thanks.  I knew that all Malibu trailers, except the M240, use a 2" ball in 2021 and earlier.  I thought that maybe with the heavier hull and larger fuel tank of the 2022 25 LSV (compared to 2021), that might have taken it close enough to the realm of the M240 that they made the switch to 2 5/16.

I know that other here use the Weigh Safe for a 2022 25 LSV.  I believe @DFW does for example.  I am somewhat surprised that they use a 8k rated ball for their 2022 25 LSV.

[roonedoggie]

I use the weigh safe system. I was surprised this past week when I picked up my new boat at it was  2 5/16".  I have a 10" drop down model.  I bought the Weigh Safe clam shell https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wgs-ws07?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj9z3_qqj9wIVrD6tBh36TQCmEAQYBCABEgI16vD_BwE.  Just place over your 2" ball. Works great just need to remove after use.  I did go ahead and buy the larger ball.

 

While there are weigh safe balls that are 10,000... why take the chance and go straight to 2 5/16". If you are not using the weigh safe, well worth the investment.  It takes literally less then 5 minutes to switch balls.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by roonedoggie

[roonedoggie]

@bigskydoc, was not following your comment "'I'm of the opinion that the Weigh Safe is not particularly helpful for trailers with a fixed weight distribution. It can be helpful for trailers, like a dump bed or flat bed, where a heavy load can be moved fore and aft, affecting the tongue weight, and thus trailer stability. " Just curious, Thanks

[familyfun]

Ah ok, so it looks like the 2022 25 LSV has in fact made the switch to 2 5/16.  That is good because the Weigh Safe system with the 2 5/16 is rated to 12.5k, so plenty of margin.  I would note that using the clam shell, while increasing the ball size, probably does not increase the 2" ball weight rating.  Even with the clam shell, I would assume it is only rated for 8000 lbs.  @roonedoggie since you bought the larger ball, that is the way to go long term for the heavier 2022 25 LSV.

@roonedoggie I think @bigskydoc was specifically referring to the weight gauge, not the hitch in and of itself.  With a trailer with a relatively fixed weight distribution (like a boat) the tongue weight really won't change that much.  Once you see a couple of measurements with and without gas, your tongue weight will always be close to that.  So the usefulness of the gauge diminishes.  For trailers where the main heavy load can be shifted significantly, the tongue weight can vary significantly and measuring it could continue to be meaningful.

Edited April 20, 2022 by familyfun

[Livinlogs]

My triple axle t250 came with 2” coupler 

[PNWcubbies]

I have the 2022 Malibu 25 LSV with a triple axle trailer. It comes with a 2 5/16th” ball. My hitch comes with a 1” inch drop, although my truck comes raised up 2”. This combo seems to keep the truck and trailer level. 

[Livinlogs]

1 hour ago, Livinlogs said:

My triple axle t250 came with 2” coupler 

I guess the lsv weighs enough more to require a higher rating . My trailer is 8400 lbs gross just like last years tandem axle trailer . So I’m guessing the Malibu trailer is a higher rating . 

[familyfun]

@roonedoggie Is your trailer a tandem axle or triple axle trailer?

 

Actually, looks like it is 2 5/16 now for the 2022 25 LSV for both the tandem and triple axle trailers.

Edited April 20, 2022 by familyfun

[jjackkrash]

It is good to know what your tongue weight is even if it does not change much.  I have seen more than one trailer come from the factory mis-adjusted (both too little and not enough tongue weight) based on where they set it up to carry the boat in relation to the axle location.  

Also, the trailer hitch receiver on a lot of not-so-old Ford HD trucks that came with the 2" receiver are rated at 5K gross and 500 lbs. carry for whatever stupid reason.  I'd at least take a look at the sticker/rating stamp on the actual hitch receiver to verify it can handle more than 5k/500.  My buddy scoffed at me when I told him to check his until he checked his and it was a 5K hitch receiver.   

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by jjackkrash

[bigskydoc]

6 hours ago, familyfun said:

@roonedoggie I think @bigskydoc was specifically referring to the weight gauge, not the hitch in and of itself.  With a trailer with a relatively fixed weight distribution (like a boat) the tongue weight really won't change that much.  Once you see a couple of measurements with and without gas, your tongue weight will always be close to that.  So the usefulness of the gauge diminishes.  For trailers where the main heavy load can be shifted significantly, the tongue weight can vary significantly and measuring it could continue to be meaningful.

Yep. At the two ends of my "bumper pull" towing spectrum, I have the boat, and I have the flatbed, for hauling grain.  

No matter what I do to the boat (full fuel tank vs empty, lot's of coolers, gear, etc), the weight distribution, and thus the pin weight, is close enough to the same that I don't need to weigh it every time I hookup.  If I had concerns about the weight distribution, I would only need to measure the pin weight the first time, then hook up at the same height that I did the measurements, but I would also need a full CAT scale of the trailer and tow vehicle to do the calculations.  If I am getting the CAT scale measurements any way, then the initial Weigh Safe measurement is redundant.  Thus, for a trailer with a relatively fixed load distribution, the measuring part of the weigh safe isn't particularly helpful.  

Where it can be very helpful is on the other end of the spectrum.  When the feed store loads my flatbed with 4,000 to 6,000 pounds of grain, the pin weight, and thus the tow characteristics, can very by a lot, depending on exactly how far forward they load the pallets.  If they don't get them far enough forward, they trailer can develop dangerous sway at highway speeds.  Knowing the weight of the trailer, the load, and the measured pin weight lets me know that I am towing safely, before I leave the lot.  This is why the Weigh Safe is really good for a bumper pull camper, where the loads are quite variable.

The weigh safe can also be useful in situations where the tow vehicle is marginal for the trailer load, and a few hundred pounds one way or the other can effect your towing.  Of course, you shouldn't be towing at all with such a small margin, but if you are, then you should be weighing every time.

So, the weigh safe has its use cases, I just don't think that the 1 Ton, with a 9,000 to 10,000 pound boat, is one of them. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by bigskydoc

[bigskydoc]

32 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

It is good to know what your tongue weight is even if it does not change much.  I have seen more than one trailer come from the factory mis-adjusted (both too little and not enough tongue weight) based on where they set it up to carry the boat in relation to the axle location.  

 

It's not particularly helpful if you don't also know the actual gross trailer weight.*  Without that, you can't calculate whether your measured pin weight is correct.  As you are alluding to, to prevent sway, you want roughly 10% to 15% of the total gross trailer weight to be on the tongue.  You could measure tongue weight, and then rough in based on what you think the trailer weighs, but if you are estimating anyway, then it's just as safe to hookup at a height that keeps both the trailer, and tow vehicle, level.  If you experience some sway, then drop the ball down a notch or two.  If you are measuring everything on a scale, then the Weigh Safe is redundant.

Ideally, we would all tow properly, and have our GVWR, GAWR, GCWR, tire weight rating, etc written down, and then we would run our rigs over a good set of scales, and plug the numbers in to have a properly-balanced load.  Unfortunately, we don't all have access to scales, so we have to do our best.  

Edited April 21, 2022 by bigskydoc

[jjackkrash]

19 minutes ago, bigskydoc said:

 As you are alluding to, to prevent sway, you want roughly 10% to 15% of the total gross trailer weight to be on the tongue.    

My dad unloads boats that come off the semis from the factory to the dealer and then hauls them to the shop down the road for pre-sale rigging or to customers.  He unloaded a 10Kish big wake barge not so long ago that had 150 lbs. on the weigh safe scale and he just unhooked it and would not tow it out of the yard until they replaced or adjusted the trailer.  The 10-15% figure has room for error but its nice to know if you are well outside the margins and have like 1 to 2%, for example.  The weigh safe provides that level of comfort, which is why I have three, one for each tow vehicle in my driveway.  

I agree 100% its more useful for the flatbed and dump trailer, I don't like hauling the mini-ex or track loader on the flatbed, or a load of dirt in the dump trailer, without it.