Real world Towing a 25LSV with a newer Tahoe/Suburban/Grand Wagoneer - And weight

[wilster]

I have real world towed a 2015 23 LSV with a 2010 GMC Denali - transmission failed on a trip back from Lake Powell to bay area and it had 120k mi on it--aside from this, it had plenty of power and stability.  I then towed the same boat with a 2017 GMC Denali and i watched the transmission temp like a hawk when towing and that transmission ran much hotter than it should have and every time it creeped up in temp, i would slow down and so i would often tow going 55mph just to keep the transmission at a normal operating temp.  I also towed the same boat for a season and a half with a 2020 Range Rover Sport with 525hp and that was the best tow vehicle of the three.  I've also towed with my friend's F150 eco boost and it pulled fine, but was a little mushy in the rear.

Now onto the 25LSV which we purchased last year.  In light of my concerns with GM transmissions and mushyness with towing using a 1/2 ton, we elected to make it a complete non-issue and do the F250 with the turbo diesel...and i'm so glad i did.  I can't imagine RELIABLY and SAFELY trying to tow something of that size without moving to 3/4 ton.  Is it possible do less with a 25LSV, certainly, but you are compromising on reliability and safety.

[justgary]

15 hours ago, wdr said:

I just can’t subscribe to a smaller displacement, boosted engine living a trouble free life as long as I normally own a truck.

I thought that too, but finally decided to try a 3.5L EB after reading all the praises on this forum.  The trick is the 10-speed transmission, but having turbos means that if I am pulling my tractor and need to pass the dude going 55 in a 65, I just pass him and never worry about having the acceleration needed to get the job done.  The 3.5L EB powertrain is amazing to me.

19 hours ago, wdr said:

With both I am seeing @ 19 mpg in town using the TFL mileage process. I only drive 30 miles a day @ 45mph round trip so that has a bit to do with it I imagine.

I'm getting about 24-26 MPG at 45 MPH with the 3.5L EB when I drive through town and catch all the lights green.  Honestly, a lot of the difference could just be in the tires.  I have F250 towing mirrors on my F150, so I do get penalized a bit at higher speeds.

[UWSkier]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:34 AM, wdr said:

I can’t say enough bad things about my 8 speed in my 2015 Denali. Replaced at 20k miles and have constantly swapped the fluid to this point @ 112k. As mentioned above it is like doing a neutral drop into gear in every P to D event. On a hill it rolls 3 feet before engagement which induces the pucker factor when towing!

Did you go with the updated recommendation of Mobil 1 ATF instead of the factory blend?  There's supposedly a big improvement on ill-performing 8 speeds by going with a different viscosity fluid.  I haven't changed my ATF at 50k miles and probably won't touch it.

[wdr]

They changed it to the “synthetic fluid” last Friday according to the final paperwork. It is more of a slow shove than sharp punch going into drive now. I still get the roll before engagement on a hill. Honestly, I have dealt with it for so long now, it is almost an invisible issue anymore. 

[wdr]

2 hours ago, justgary said:

I'm getting about 24-26 MPG at 45 MPH with the 3.5L EB when I drive through town and catch all the lights green.  Honestly, a lot of the difference could just be in the tires.  I have F250 towing mirrors on my F150, so I do get penalized a bit at higher speeds.

I am just going to need to drive one and do a demo tow before I buy my next one. I really like my sons Ram 1500 (comfort and layout), but the 6.4 in the 2500 gasser is down on power in comparison. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by wdr

[UWSkier]

39 minutes ago, wdr said:

I am just going to need to drive one and do a demo tow before I buy my next one. I really like my sons Ram 1500 (comfort and layout), but the 6.4 in the 2500 gasser is down on power in comparison. 

I've been eyeing the 6.4L Hemi as my next truck too since the Ram is 11" shorter than the Ford and GM. Watched a video of a guy doing a review on it while towing his travel trailer across New Mexico and it sounded like the thing was constantly downshifting, worse than my 5.3 did on the same stretch.  But the guys on the RAM forums says it can pull a house...  IDK. Kinda want to drive one.

[LakePTDoc]

I use about 5 gallons of DEF every 5000 miles unless towing a lot.  When I get my oil changes they fill this up, otherwise I usually fill up at a big filling station that has a DEF pump which only costs me about 17 dollars for 5 gallons vs 20 for 2.5 gallons.  the oil change price seems only a little more than what i was paying for my 5.3 engine.  The only large cost I have come across is the fuel filter replacement, which was about 150 dollars.  This only occurs about every 25,000 miles.  I used to use 89 octane and currently it is only a 50-60 cent difference for 89 octane to diesel.  And had times where the difference was much less depending on the station, especially this last summer, and 91 octane where I live is anywhere between 40 cents less than diesel to 10 cents more than diesel.  right now if I pay 3.99 a gallon for 600 miles it costs me $88.578, my previous truck at 3.49 a gallon for 600 miles it would cost me $104.7.  

[LakePTDoc]

those are based off real world highway mileage.

[RyanB]

2 hours ago, wdr said:

I am just going to need to drive one and do a demo tow before I buy my next one. I really like my sons Ram 1500 (comfort and layout), but the 6.4 in the 2500 gasser is down on power in comparison. 

 

1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

I've been eyeing the 6.4L Hemi as my next truck too since the Ram is 11" shorter than the Ford and GM. Watched a video of a guy doing a review on it while towing his travel trailer across New Mexico and it sounded like the thing was constantly downshifting, worse than my 5.3 did on the same stretch.  But the guys on the RAM forums says it can pull a house...  IDK. Kinda want to drive one.

The updated 8 speed transmission is supposed to have fixed both of those issues. On paper power is on par with the 6.6 and 7.3. 

[Slayer]

2 hours ago, UWSkier said:

I've been eyeing the 6.4L Hemi as my next truck too since the Ram is 11" shorter than the Ford and GM. Watched a video of a guy doing a review on it while towing his travel trailer across New Mexico and it sounded like the thing was constantly downshifting, worse than my 5.3 did on the same stretch.  But the guys on the RAM forums says it can pull a house...  IDK. Kinda want to drive one.

My experience with the 6.4 Hemi in the Ram wasn't impressive.  It was towing a Tige' 23ZX.  It never seemed to find its happy place with the gearing and loved fuel.

15 minutes ago, RyanB said:

 

The updated 8 speed transmission is supposed to have fixed both of those issues. On paper power is on par with the 6.6 and 7.3. 

I hope that's the case for the Ram crowd.  The did some good things with that truck over the last 2 model years.  Not my style, but to others it is and I respect that. 

[UWSkier]

20 minutes ago, RyanB said:

 

The updated 8 speed transmission is supposed to have fixed both of those issues. On paper power is on par with the 6.6 and 7.3. 

His was the 8 speed.  Was surprised to hear the truck just shifting constantly.  It's this video.  Watching with headphones it sounds like the thing is never happy with a particular gear, unless this guy is one of those awful drivers who's on and off the gas all the time.

 

[amartin]

I have had the 3.0 in Yukon XL for 10 months and +25k miles.  I wouldn't go back.  I don't tow much, but it towed my 247 quite easily.  I routinely get 25 mpg with my normal driving without even trying to be light on the pedal.  In my previous 2016 5.3, I would routinely get about 18 mpg and get best case if I really tried of 20 mpg.  Right now for me (Houston TX), I am paying about 30% more for diesel vs "regular unleaded" - 3.89 vs 2.99.  That makes is a slight win from a  $ / mile standpoint in favor of the diesel.  DEF is completely insignificant in my opinion, unless you tow alot.  I have spent about $20 in DEF over the past 12000 miles.  Oil changes do cost a bit more.  At the dealership, I get 6 for $699 vs 6 for $559 with the gassers.  $140 over about 30k miles.  I draw the line at the fuel filter change - DIY is about $30 vs $165 at the dealer.  I have had to do this once.  The 6.2 would likely make this comparison more favorable to the 3.0, but I don't have any experience with that engine.

In my mind, using the cost to operate to justify the decision either way is simply trying to justify the result that you are looking for. (DISCLAIMER - wildly different fuel spreads may change this!)  (Second DISCLAIMER - I am guilty of doing this in many aspects of my life, so that is not a judgmental comment - see last weeks ski boot purchase which would buy several hundred gallons of diesel or gas - take your pick!)

This was mentioned earlier but, the real nice feature of the 3.0 is the nearly 700 miles that I get on a single fuel stop!

[jjackkrash]

My GMC dealer gives lifetime "free" oil changes on every car they sell as long as you own it.  I'm sure I pay for this somewhere, but I have not paid for an oil change on any diesel truck I have owned since 2013 and I have been happy with the purchase price on every vehicle I have bought there.   

[oldjeep]

23 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

My GMC dealer gives lifetime "free" oil changes on every car they sell as long as you own it.  I'm sure I pay for this somewhere, but I have not paid for an oil change on any diesel truck I have owned since 2013 and I have been happy with the purchase price on every vehicle I have bought there.   

Good deal if you live near where you bought the truck.  

[UWSkier]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:30 AM, wdr said:

They changed it to the “synthetic fluid” last Friday according to the final paperwork. It is more of a slow shove than sharp punch going into drive now. I still get the roll before engagement on a hill. Honestly, I have dealt with it for so long now, it is almost an invisible issue anymore. 

Well, add me to the list of 8 speed customers with issues.  Just shy of 50k miles.  It's been rock solid until now.  I first noticed it today but I'm getting the "rumble strip" shudder at highway speeds under light to moderate throttle while cruising in 8th gear.  The tach needle jumps a bit and it feels like the truck is skipping a tiny bit.  I'm hoping the fluid change is all I need.  Gonna call a few shops tomorrow.

Edited February 10, 2023 by UWSkier

[amartin]

13 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

Well, add me to the list of 8 speed customers with issues.  Just shy of 50k miles.  It's been rock solid until now.  I first noticed it today but I'm getting the "rumble strip" shudder at highway speeds under light to moderate throttle while cruising in 8th gear.  The tach needle jumps a bit and it feels like the truck is skipping a tiny bit.  I'm hoping the fluid change is all I need.  Gonna call a few shops tomorrow.

Just shy of 50k - is that still in the power train warranty?  If so, I wouldn't go anywhere other than the dealer to make sure that the issue is documented with them.  What is the recommended service interval on the transmission fluid?  Cant be less than 50k is it?

[UWSkier]

3 hours ago, amartin said:

Just shy of 50k - is that still in the power train warranty?  If so, I wouldn't go anywhere other than the dealer to make sure that the issue is documented with them.  What is the recommended service interval on the transmission fluid?  Cant be less than 50k is it?

I'm a few years removed from warranty. It's a 2016.

[Cole2001]

Go get a trans fluid service done. It saved my f150 after I was quoted 7k for a new tranny. Could also be a bad torque convertor. 

[wdr]

5 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Go get a trans fluid service done. It saved my f150 after I was quoted 7k for a new tranny. Could also be a bad torque convertor. 

On my 2015, it was replaced @ 20k. To try and reduce the severity of the problems, it has been a sad parade of nearly yearly repeated fluid changes ever since. The only reason I don’t get rid of it is that I have the “million mile” warranty from the dealership. I haven’t spent a dime on it other than the required oil changes, brake pads and tires. 

[UWSkier]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:10 PM, Cole2001 said:

Go get a trans fluid service done. It saved my f150 after I was quoted 7k for a new tranny. Could also be a bad torque convertor. 

 

On 2/10/2023 at 4:36 AM, wdr said:

On my 2015, it was replaced @ 20k. To try and reduce the severity of the problems, it has been a sad parade of nearly yearly repeated fluid changes ever since. The only reason I don’t get rid of it is that I have the “million mile” warranty from the dealership. I haven’t spent a dime on it other than the required oil changes, brake pads and tires. 

Did the double fluid swap TSB and it is shifting perfectly again. Surprisingly, the local GMC dealership was far cheaper than independent transmission shops in the area. Like 50% cheaper. 

[TAQ44]

Man. This blog has me trippin about my 2018 Tahoe. I use it as my tow rig for my ‘22 A22. It has the standard tow package with airbags and “tow/haul” mode equipped. Seems to do great uphill and so on without any major increases to tranny temp. Shifts well also. Should I have any concern for the long term or is the 25LSV just THAT much heavier?

[Livinlogs]

44 minutes ago, TAQ44 said:

Man. This blog has me trippin about my 2018 Tahoe. I use it as my tow rig for my ‘22 A22. It has the standard tow package with airbags and “tow/haul” mode equipped. Seems to do great uphill and so on without any major increases to tranny temp. Shifts well also. Should I have any concern for the long term or is the 25LSV just THAT much heavier?

The 25lsv is considerably heavier than your boat . I have the t250 and with 400 lbs of lead and all full of gear /fuel on a triple axle trailer , im 9350 lbs . I expect the lsv to be a couple hundred pounds heavier due to tower and interior accessories. The tongue weight can easily overload your TV payload capacity with passengers gear etc in the vehicle . I towed with a half ton but since upgraded to a one ton diesel . A 3/4 ton gasser would have been fine too. 

[SouthsideBoarder]

1 hour ago, TAQ44 said:

Man. This blog has me trippin about my 2018 Tahoe. I use it as my tow rig for my ‘22 A22. It has the standard tow package with airbags and “tow/haul” mode equipped. Seems to do great uphill and so on without any major increases to tranny temp. Shifts well also. Should I have any concern for the long term or is the 25LSV just THAT much heavier?

Same. Gonna be tow rig shopping this summer and want something very reliable. I know three people in the last year with a GM and the 8 speed that have had issues. But I’m sure there’s plenty without as well. Plus I am only towing 4 miles from storage to the ramp and back twice a year. 

[shawndoggy]

7 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Same. Gonna be tow rig shopping this summer and want something very reliable. I know three people in the last year with a GM and the 8 speed that have had issues. But I’m sure there’s plenty without as well. Plus I am only towing 4 miles from storage to the ramp and back twice a year. 

4 miles?  If any of these glass trannys blow from 8 miles of towing a year, it's not the towing that's doing it.

[CaptainMorgan]

20 minutes ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Same. Gonna be tow rig shopping this summer and want something very reliable. I know three people in the last year with a GM and the 8 speed that have had issues. But I’m sure there’s plenty without as well. Plus I am only towing 4 miles from storage to the ramp and back twice a year. 

i assume you have other needs for a heavy-duty tow rig?  there are definitely cheaper solutions for towing a boat 8 miles/yr. 

Don't know your specifics, but what i'd consider an acceptable/safe setup for 30mph down 4 miles of flat back roads is probably different than highway speeds up/down long mountain passes.