Real world Towing a 25LSV with a newer Tahoe/Suburban/Grand Wagoneer - And weight

[justgary]

1 hour ago, Stevo said:

Time to go diesel 3/4 -1 ton

Heh heh heh.  Showing a Ford in a Chebby/Jeep thread.  I agree, get the Ford.

[DeepCreekLSV25]

13 hours ago, Kilravock said:

I should have seen this topic much earlier, so I apologize for resurrecting it, but I figure my experience is worth it for some.

I just got done replacing the transmission on my 2017 Suburban 1500. The burb barely has 50k miles. I had been towing a 2014 21' VLX for the past year a few times a month in the Arizona heat. Catastrophic failure. Not cheap. I have pictures of the fine metal sludge after pulling the pan if anyone feels adventurous.

They advertise an 8k max towing capacity for the Silverado 1500 series, but read the fine print. The vast majority of our trailers are dead weight with surge brakes. A WDH on our trailers will void the Malibu warranty because it interferes with the braking system (I checked after I learned this lesson). Per GM's site (as stated above), that max is 5k, not 8k. 3700lb boat, 800lb trailer, 41 gallons of fuel, plus gear, plus passengers... adds up real fast.

The exact same thing happened to my 2007 Tahoe in April of 2021. I just figured it quit because it had a lot of miles. Now I understand that I killed both of them by towing at max dead weight capacity.

Expensive lesson to learn.

Back in 2019, I also lost the transmission on my 2017 Premier Suburban after 60K miles. Out of warranty so I ate the full replacement cost. It had the upgraded tow package. I bought it new. I put about 35k miles a year on a car. I only tow the boats (2005 Ski Nautique and a 25' pontoon) in the spring and fall over to the local ramp maybe 1.5 miles away. I have heard about a lot of issues with the transmissions on the Suburban in that year range. 

Dealer said there was some kind of major internal failure.

[UWSkier]

2 hours ago, DeepCreekLSV25 said:

Back in 2019, I also lost the transmission on my 2017 Premier Suburban after 60K miles. Out of warranty so I ate the full replacement cost. It had the upgraded tow package. I bought it new. I put about 35k miles a year on a car. I only tow the boats (2005 Ski Nautique and a 25' pontoon) in the spring and fall over to the local ramp maybe 1.5 miles away. I have heard about a lot of issues with the transmissions on the Suburban in that year range. 

Dealer said there was some kind of major internal failure.

Was that the 8 speed?

[martinarcher]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:48 PM, Stevo said:

Time to go diesel 3/4 -1 ton

That's a handsome rig.    It does boggle my mind how that big boat can make that big ole truck look small.  

[Stevo]

3 minutes ago, martinarcher said:

That's a handsome rig.    It does boggle my mind how that big boat can make that big ole truck look small.  

Thx.

The new 25 is massive, 

but the one thing it’s not … is the new 26

Edited January 10, 2023 by Stevo

[Slayer]

I'm in agreement with @Stevo.  While I didn't get the diesel, I did get a 3/4 ton after I received my 2022 25LSV.  The new 7.3L gasser in the super duty line is impressive.  Since I couldn't really justify the diesel being that my truck is a DD and I don't tow often, I opted for the gasser.  Zero complaints.

 

[Olddognewtricks]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:03 PM, Kilravock said:

I should have seen this topic much earlier, so I apologize for resurrecting it, but I figure my experience is worth it for some.

I just got done replacing the transmission on my 2017 Suburban 1500. The burb barely has 50k miles. I had been towing a 2014 21' VLX for the past year a few times a month in the Arizona heat. Catastrophic failure. Not cheap. I have pictures of the fine metal sludge after pulling the pan if anyone feels adventurous.

They advertise an 8k max towing capacity for the Silverado 1500 series, but read the fine print. The vast majority of our trailers are dead weight with surge brakes. A WDH on our trailers will void the Malibu warranty because it interferes with the braking system (I checked after I learned this lesson). Per GM's site (as stated above), that max is 5k, not 8k. 3700lb boat, 800lb trailer, 41 gallons of fuel, plus gear, plus passengers... adds up real fast.

The exact same thing happened to my 2007 Tahoe in April of 2021. I just figured it quit because it had a lot of miles. Now I understand that I killed both of them by towing at max dead weight capacity.

Expensive lesson to learn.

Don't be too hard on yourself.   Just replaced the transmission on my 2016 suburban that only ever towed a pontoon twice! From what I have read its pretty much expected for that Tran to go bad anywhere from 50 to 100k.    So you might have sped it up, but may have happened anyway.    supposedly the newer 10 speed transmission is much better and less likely to fail.     We'll see.   

[JeffK]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:10 AM, Slayer said:

I'm in agreement with @Stevo.  While I didn't get the diesel, I did get a 3/4 ton after I received my 2022 25LSV.  The new 7.3L gasser in the super duty line is impressive.  Since I couldn't really justify the diesel being that my truck is a DD and I don't tow often, I opted for the gasser.  Zero complaints.

 

Curious as to what kind of real world gas mileage you are seeing

[Slayer]

1 hour ago, JeffK said:

Curious as to what kind of real world gas mileage you are seeing

As configured, the  Super Duty Tremor comes standard with a 4.30 rear end in both the 6.7 Diesel and 7.3 Gas powertrains.  Both of which are mated to the same 10-speed transmission.  The only difference between the 10-speed in each is that the 6.7 gets some stronger components due to the torque it produces.  

As I said, my truck is my DD.  I have a 12 mile one way commute to work and sometimes I use the freeway, other times I take surface streets.  Hand calculated MPG unloaded averages around 12.5.  I usually keep the truck in eco mode which seems to smooth the shift points.  If I stay below 75 on the freeway, the MPG improvement is notable.  As I mentioned, I don't tow much.  Last year, I towed 500 miles.  Loaded up for a trip with the boat, gear, and kids, I see about 9 MPG.  The 25 is a heavy pig, and the truck manages it exceptionally well.  My boat lives on a hoist in the summer unless we take a trip, which is why I opted for the 7.3 over the 6.7.

I came out of a 2019 F-150 with the max tow package and heavy duty payload package.  I had it until mid-June 2022 when my SD Tremor arrived.  I towed the 25 with it a couple times back and forth to the dealer for warranty stuff and it had plenty of power to pull the boat.  However, I felt less than confident in it's ability to effectively manage the load.  I saw 7.5-8 MPG while towing the 25 with the F-150 and the 25 pushed that thing around.  As it was configured, it was rated for a towing capacity of 12,500# and the Tremor is rated for 15,000#.  I have not been on a scale with the boat, but others have noted here approximately 9,000+.  There is a night and day difference in towing the 25 with the Tremor over the F-150.

I could have easily purchased another F-150 equipped as my old one was and been ok, but for a few more $$, the Tremor made much more sense on paper as the cost delta was nominal for the performance gain.  There is an operational increase in cost over the F-150, but IDGAF about that because the SD Tremor is awesome!

[rennis]

If a SD Godzilla Tremor would fit in my parking garage at work I would have already upgraded my F150 to one.  Alas it won't, so I can't. 

[Cole2001]

The 7.3 seems like a solid option for towing for a gaser. My only question will be how it holds it value compared to a diesel. A 7-10 year old diesel is worth nearly 25k more than one of a gas truck.

Also in the same boat would have a HD if it would fit in my parking garage.

[Slayer]

1 hour ago, Cole2001 said:

The 7.3 seems like a solid option for towing for a gaser. My only question will be how it holds it value compared to a diesel. A 7-10 year old diesel is worth nearly 25k more than one of a gas truck.

Also in the same boat would have a HD if it would fit in my parking garage.

We'll see.  I think it really depends on long term performance of the gasser.  It will be interesting to see regardless.  

[jjackkrash]

3 hours ago, rennis said:

If a SD Godzilla Tremor would fit in my parking garage at work I would have already upgraded my F150 to one.  Alas it won't, so I can't. 

Which part/dimension won't fit?  IIRC the footprint on the SRW 3/4 short bed trucks are not that much different that the footprint on the half tons, depending on configuration.  

[oldjeep]

2 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Which part/dimension won't fit?  IIRC the footprint on the SRW 3/4 short bed trucks are not that much different that the footprint on the half tons, depending on configuration.  

Height.  Even my stock Ram 1500 is really close to ceiling height at a couple ramps I use.

[NewMalibu]

For what it is worth, we bought the 2022 Wagoneer (SWB) last year with the 5.7Hemi. We only tow the boat 2x year any real distance, but when we do, we go 200-300mi and over 1-2 Mountian passes. 

Previously we have owned multiple 6.2l Yukons (SWB). While I loved that engine, the transmission was always the weak point. It was nearly impossible to keep the temp under 210 without going under 45mph. Add summer temps, and it would quickly get to 220.

The Wagoneer though, was able to maintain 70-75mph over the mountain passes pulling an M220 (1/2 tank of gas), family, gear and dogs with room to spare. Transmission never broke 194, even when the outside temp was over 80. 

However, in order to maintain 70-75 on the really steep parts, we were in 3rd/4th gear at 5k rpm, ...so not good... but trans temp never broke 194. (I only did this for a few miles to see how it would handle the inclines/temps). If I backed off to 55-60, then we were in the 3,000-3,300 RPM range (5th/6th/7th gear). I dont think the transmission ever hit 8th gear, even on the flats.

As you can imagine, while it handled the situation just fine (no issues braking or accelerating, and with load leveling suspension, vehicle stayed level), gas mileage was garbage. In general, the Wagoneer gets probably the worst mileage in its class, and here we got 5mph average. One tank got us exactly 136mi (over 2 Mountian passes).....I know because we pulled into the gas station and put 27.2gal into a 26.5gal tank......

[hunter77ah]

6 minutes ago, NewMalibu said:

For what it is worth, we bought the 2022 Wagoneer (SWB) last year with the 5.7Hemi. We only tow the boat 2x year any real distance, but when we do, we go 200-300mi and over 1-2 Mountian passes. 

Previously we have owned multiple 6.2l Yukons (SWB). While I loved that engine, the transmission was always the weak point. It was nearly impossible to keep the temp under 210 without going under 45mph. Add summer temps, and it would quickly get to 220.

The Wagoneer though, was able to maintain 70-75mph over the mountain passes pulling an M220 (1/2 tank of gas), family, gear and dogs with room to spare. Transmission never broke 194, even when the outside temp was over 80. 

However, in order to maintain 70-75 on the really steep parts, we were in 3rd/4th gear at 5k rpm, ...so not good... but trans temp never broke 194. (I only did this for a few miles to see how it would handle the inclines/temps). If I backed off to 55-60, then we were in the 3,000-3,300 RPM range (5th/6th/7th gear). I dont think the transmission ever hit 8th gear, even on the flats.

As you can imagine, while it handled the situation just fine (no issues braking or accelerating, and with load leveling suspension, vehicle stayed level), gas mileage was garbage. In general, the Wagoneer gets probably the worst mileage in its class, and here we got 5mph average. One tank got us exactly 136mi (over 2 Mountian passes).....I know because we pulled into the gas station and put 27.2gal into a 26.5gal tank......

What transmission was in the Yukon?

[NewMalibu]

I dont know for sure. but a quick google search tells me: 6L80 six speed & 8L90 eight-speed

[Sparky450]

4 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Height.  Even my stock Ram 1500 is really close to ceiling height at a couple ramps I use.

My Ram 18 3500 SRW CC 4wd fits in my 7’ garage door. However, with mirror out, not extended it barely fits in the 9’ wide. With them retracted I have plenty of room.

In fact all of my. 3500 4wd have fit in my 7’ high garage door. 

They have all been stock height on factory wheels except my 04 Ford. I think I went up one tied size on that one. 
And I got 10 mpg pulling my 2019 25LSV. Hand calced. I think the computer said 12
 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Sparky450

[Cole2001]

Most new HD trucks are right around 6’9. My f150 leveled on 35s squeaks in just under 6’6. Parkade is 6’6. 

[oldjeep]

2 hours ago, Sparky450 said:

My Ram 18 3500 SRW CC 4wd fits in my 7’ garage door. However, with mirror out, not extended it barely fits in the 9’ wide. With them retracted I have plenty of room.

In fact all of my. 3500 4wd have fit in my 7’ high garage door. 

They have all been stock height on factory wheels except my 04 Ford. I think I went up one tied size on that one. 
And I got 10 mpg pulling my 2019 25LSV. Hand calced. I think the computer said 12
 

Old downtown ramps are not 7 ft

[oldjeep]

2 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Most new HD trucks are right around 6’9. My f150 leveled on 35s squeaks in just under 6’6. Parkade is 6’6. 

Stock Ram is between 6ft 2.5 and 6ft 6.5 depending on the package.  I know that going into certain ramps makes me hope there is no snow pack on floor

[Stevo]

23 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Stock Ram is between 6ft 2.5 and 6ft 6.5 depending on the package.  I know that going into certain ramps makes me hope there is no snow pack on floor

Is this the 2wd version or the 4wd 

[hunter77ah]

5 hours ago, NewMalibu said:

I dont know for sure. but a quick google search tells me: 6L80 six speed & 8L90 eight-speed

That’s what google told me, but I’m considering a engine/trans swap and was hoping it was the latter. 

[oldjeep]

1 minute ago, Stevo said:

Is this the 2wd version or the 4wd 

Current gen4 is 4wd, but previous 2wd was same height. In a gen4 the shortest ones are the Work trucks, tallest are the rebels.

Only kids seem to think 4wd is a necessity;)  But some of us grew up driving when 4wd was a very uncommon thing.

[Nitrousbird]

  

14 hours ago, NewMalibu said:

Previously we have owned multiple 6.2l Yukons (SWB). While I loved that engine, the transmission was always the weak point. It was nearly impossible to keep the temp under 210 without going under 45mph. Add summer temps, and it would quickly get to 220.

An LT4 thermostat and reprogramming the fans to come on earlier and more aggressively has been proven to massively lower transmission temps.  Even just reprogramming makes a big difference but the lower temp thermostat from the LT4 allows everything to be set to come on earlier.