Thoughts on EV tow rigs

[Bozboat]

3 hours ago, hethj7 said:

@Bozboat I assume your were overstating TX issues.  Have you been to a 3rd world country? 🤪

yes I have spent time in some third world places, so yes I did overstate it some,  maybe I am 2nd world.  Power is safe, but we have regular outages.  All my electronic stuff, Tvs, Routers, etc are on battery back ups so we can coast thru the blips without having to wait for the reboot. In the summer we get hounded to cut back on demand and usually have rolling brownouts or rolling outages whenever the temperature sticks above 100 for a few days.  The occasional wicked winter storm, like last February's 8-9 days without power will got me thinking of back up power options.  The power wall makes sense, @shawndoggy mentions it could ease demand during peak periods and allow charging during off peak, that would be helpful.  Do we have any crew members that have the power wall?  It would be good to have a review.  

Edited January 8, 2022 by Bozboat

[Surfbeast21]

9 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

There's also an environmental regulation issue.  It's WAY easier to regulate the emissions of 3400 fossil fuel electric power plants than 280M tailpipes.  AFAIK there isn't a cottage industry of DEF delete kits for power plants (ICBW -- I really don't know anything about the aftermarket for power plants).

Are you the go to guy on this site for def deletes? Do you have one for a 2021 Duramax, having heck finding a full turbo back delete.  

[justgary]

7 hours ago, Bozboat said:

Maybe the house HVAC system should be split up into those mini split systems instead of large central units.

I have an 18,000 BTU (1.5 Ton) mini split running in an off-grid installation.  They are amazing.  Incredibly quiet, and the variable frequency compressor is always run at maximum efficiency rather than on-off like your big unit.  If I could find a variable frequency compressor for my home AC (a 3.5 Ton geothermal), I would switch it tonight.

[justgary]

7 hours ago, dlb said:

 When I replace my current roof, I will put solar on/in it.

Be careful with that.  I would not put solar panels on a roof that was not engineered for the additional dead load (and live load in a hurricane around here).  If you have room, put them on poles so you don't have issues with roof leaks or loading.  Also, they pretty much need to face south-ish and have a clear view of the sky.  Even a little bit of shade on a part of a panel will bring it way down.

I have a ~12kWh solar installation off grid.  It was ~24kWh until I removed half of the batteries today due to age.  I am planning to switch from lead-acid to LiFePO4 cells because they are much better suited to this kind of setup than lead-acid is.  I am willing to talk about it and help you if anyone wants to DIY a solution for themselves.  DIY is *much* cheaper than a PowerWall, but you have to be careful and use quality parts.  I'm on DIYSolarForum.com (but this site is better....).

Edited January 9, 2022 by justgary

[Bozboat]

29 minutes ago, justgary said:

Be careful with that.  I would not put solar panels on a roof that was not engineered for the additional dead load (and live load in a hurricane around here).  If you have room, put them on poles so you don't have issues with roof leaks or loading.  Also, they pretty much need to face south-ish and have a clear view of the sky.  Even a little bit of shade on a part of a panel will bring it way down.

I have a ~12kWh solar installation off grid.  It was ~24kWh until I removed half of the batteries today due to age.  I am planning to switch from lead-acid to LiFePO4 cells because they are much better suited to this kind of setup than lead-acid is.  I am willing to talk about it and help you if anyone wants to DIY a solution for themselves.  DIY is *much* cheaper than a PowerWall, but you have to be careful and use quality parts.  I'm on DIYSolarForum.com (but this site is better....).

How many square feet of solar panels is 12kwh set up?

[justgary]

2 hours ago, Bozboat said:

How many square feet of solar panels is 12kwh set up?

The 12kWh is battery storage (48v x 250Ah).  I have six 325W panels, so maybe 9x9 feet.  The inverter produces 4.4kW of 240vac (7kW surge).

I'll try to dig up a photo tomorrow.

Basically you size the inverter to the load you need to run, then size the battery to the amount of time you need to run that load, then size the panels to charge the battery in the time you need it charged (usually about 10 hours or so).

[Cole2001]

Electric is no where near ready to tow. I couldn’t imagine doing any kind of road trip towing a boat with an ev. Chargers are not setup for larger rigs and the amount of stops would probably double the time. 
Can’t find the link but I remember someone was towing with a model x. Within its towing capacity it was averaging about 1% battery per 1 mile, that would be an absolute dealbreaker. 

[justgary]

14 hours ago, Bozboat said:

How many square feet of solar panels is 12kwh set up?

Sorry, I misspoke.  These are 260W panels.

Two parallel sets of three in series making ~93VDC and 17A at max power point.

[Sparky450]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:46 AM, Bozboat said:

 

The Texas Power Grid definitely needs a do over. The one we have is third world at best. Since last February’s failure,  I can count 15 or so new neighborhoods within a 15 mile circle from here. It is easy to say beef up the infrastructure but I thinking that any meaningful upgrade is going to require 8-10 new nuclear power plants and a new set of power lines and transformers just to manage the growth.  

My house had a 200 amp service that is pretty much zapped by my existing load. What do I need to do to add an 80 amp Ford Home Charger?  Or do most EV adopters use the central super chargers?

 

 

I took a screenshot of my Facebook page the other day because I knew this would come up here. I literally LOL when I saw this. And California is stuffing this stuff down our throat. It will be a LONG LONG time before I go EV. It just wouldn’t work for our lifestyle. 

 

😂😂

[Chaabo]

Yeah, well … Newsmax …  LOL Don’t believe everything you read on FB.

For what’s it’s worth…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/25/california-didnt-require-electric-car-owners-stop-charging/5320286001/

[Sparky450]

1 hour ago, Chaabo said:

Yeah, well … Newsmax …  LOL Don’t believe everything you read on FB.

For what’s it’s worth…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/25/california-didnt-require-electric-car-owners-stop-charging/5320286001/

Oh come on. I am in the middle of this 💩  Let me have some fun. 😂😂

Edited January 9, 2022 by Sparky450

[UWSkier]

Depends on use case.  For the past three years, all of my towing and driving could have easily been done by a "half ton" EV truck.  It's 45 mins door to launch at my primary ski site with boat in tow.  When I head to the tourney ski lake, it's a bit further, but not towing.  I could do all of those on a single charge, no problem.

But the calculus has changed for us since we have a travel trailer on the way that we'll be using for some long haul trips.  I'm concerned as it is about fuel range with my truck and a jerry can.  There are some stretches going across AZ and NM where there's just nothing for 50 miles.  And if you find an EV charger, can you use it with 30 feet of trailer on the back of the vehicle, or do you need to unhitch every time you want to charge up?

For a tow vehicle that's used to go cross country, I don't see the EV thing working out for a while.  That said, we're starting to look for a replacement for my wife's little Tucson SUV.  That's purely an around town car.  It's been to San Diego once in three years, and other than that, has never gone more than 70 miles from home.  She doesn't want an electric but I'm pushing pretty hard in that direction.  That's the perfect EV use case IMO.

Edited January 10, 2022 by UWSkier

[granddaddy55]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:48 AM, ThinBuLine said:

I own a Tesla, wife’s car. She commutes 2 days a week 80 miles round trip and gets to use the carpool lane solo (la traffic blessing).

best car I’ve ever owned. Only maintenance is tire rotations, she never has to go to a gas station, we have solar so we charge it with our panels, we have the truck for road-trips so range isn’t a factor and it’s got a full charge of 300 miles every night if we do decide to go for a day trip somewhere. 
 

it’s quiet, comfortable, tons of room and did I mention I don’t have to do any oil changes, transmission or diff services?

much less the demand on home snd neighborhood grid infrastructure for charging supply as mentioned in previous posts

 

 

but this is a post about tow vehicles and you have a gasser for that😂🤓

and you described the ideal function of an EV car, a short commute!

no one wants to calculate the effect of MASS usage of Ev’s,  the oil companies due to less demand will spot refine to spot demand and you will see Europe prices of fuel that will be necessary to carry on the real world running on good old petrol.  you think your paying more now for shipped products,  wait for that debacle!

much less as mentioned above the demand on home snd neighborhood grid infrastructure !

or getting stuck in a winter storm with an EV on half charge

Edited January 10, 2022 by granddaddy55

[malibu2004]

I'm currently looking for another car so I can leave my camper on my truck all the time. I've thought of an all EV like a leaf but the battery deal is scary to me. Replacement batteries are 5 grand. I might go for a hybrid or then again I might just go full fossil fuel. 

The main thing is finding something that isn't grossly over priced. People want high book for a salvaged title car. 

[NWBU]

11 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Depends on use case.  For the past three years, all of my towing and driving could have easily been done by a "half ton" EV truck.  It's 45 mins door to launch at my primary ski site with boat in tow.  When I head to the tourney ski lake, it's a bit further, but not towing.  I could do all of those on a single charge, no problem.

But the calculus has changed for us since we have a travel trailer on the way that we'll be using for some long haul trips.  I'm concerned as it is about fuel range with my truck and a jerry can.  There are some stretches going across AZ and NM where there's just nothing for 50 miles.  And if you find an EV charger, can you use it with 30 feet of trailer on the back of the vehicle, or do you need to unhitch every time you want to charge up?

For a tow vehicle that's used to go cross country, I don't see the EV thing working out for a while.  That said, we're starting to look for a replacement for my wife's little Tucson SUV.  That's purely an around town car.  It's been to San Diego once in three years, and other than that, has never gone more than 70 miles from home.  She doesn't want an electric but I'm pushing pretty hard in that direction.  That's the perfect EV use case IMO.

Post up that long sought after travel trailer in your thread when you get it. 

Have you looked at the RAV4 Prime to replace her Tucson? It's got some kick but still hybrid and great MPG. Tough to find one though. I'm on the list at a couple places in order to get the tax credit before it times out later this year, and then send the vehicle on down the road to some Californian.

[Infowarrior]

I think cars that make engine noises are fun and have more similarities to the human body and how it works, the car is second nature to us, one of the most individual things we have. The electric car sounds good on paper but has no soul or unique attitude, eventually it’s just box transportation with a mute button. I only say this because I own a business that allows me to be around exotic cars and custom cars daily, I don’t think a silent Lamborghini would be terribly attractive if you have ever heard a lambo 3 miles away from you and it sounds like it’s next to you still. For a tow rig???? The old Dmax will do just fine, I don’t see the electric deal being the end all be all to car enthusiasts, maybe for just an added appliance to the house you have to plug in. 

[cowwboy]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:19 AM, shawndoggy said:

There's also an environmental regulation issue.  It's WAY easier to regulate the emissions of 3400 fossil fuel electric power plants than 280M tailpipes.  AFAIK there isn't a cottage industry of DEF delete kits for power plants (ICBW -- I really don't know anything about the aftermarket for power plants).

Coming from someone who's day job is in power plant environmental.  They regulate us like crazy.

Our analyzers are checked for accuracy every 24 hours and audited by third parties quarterly and annually in multiple manners. Plus random DEQ and EPA inspections. 

Compare that to what is used in cars. From a quick google search it showed NOx sensors claiming 10% and one study showing real world of 20% accurate. That is dog sh*t compared to what we are held to. https://trid.trb.org/view/1856172

That is on factory delivered ideally maintained vehicles. Let alone what is on the road after 100k miles. 


Given I think the "green" bit to electric cars is a political talking point. But can see their push to more easily control system.

 

 

[justgary]

7 hours ago, Infowarrior said:

I think cars that make engine noises are fun and have more similarities to the human body and how it works, the car is second nature to us, one of the most individual things we have. The electric car sounds good on paper but has no soul or unique attitude, eventually it’s just box transportation with a mute button. I only say this because I own a business that allows me to be around exotic cars and custom cars daily, I don’t think a silent Lamborghini would be terribly attractive if you have ever heard a lambo 3 miles away from you and it sounds like it’s next to you still. For a tow rig???? The old Dmax will do just fine, I don’t see the electric deal being the end all be all to car enthusiasts, maybe for just an added appliance to the house you have to plug in. 

Engine noise is an old byproduct of creating power.  Car makers have to try to make noise now just for the few who think it sounds nice.  In fact, it is very annoying to others.  I shouldn't have to hear the kid in the "muscle car" a mile away who is impressed with himself and hits the pedal hard at every stop sign in his subdivision.  It's really great a 1 AM when he's coming home and making sure that everybody within a mile knows it. 

What is more impressive to me is that my truck can make 400 HP and *not* have to make a bunch of noise to do it.

[tvano]

9 minutes ago, justgary said:

Engine noise is an old byproduct of creating power.  Car makers have to try to make noise now just for the few who think it sounds nice.  In fact, it is very annoying to others.  I shouldn't have to hear the kid in the "muscle car" a mile away who is impressed with himself and hits the pedal hard at every stop sign in his subdivision.  It's really great a 1 AM when he's coming home and making sure that everybody within a mile knows it. 

What is more impressive to me is that my truck can make 400 HP and *not* have to make a bunch of noise to do it.

when that noisy show-off wakes me i'm always reminded of that 5 year old, whiny, kid who is hanging onto mommies apron strings while CONTINUALLY yelling "mommy, mommy, look at me.  mommy, mommy, mommy, look at me".  imho that 5yo is VERY a similar mindset to the "look at me in my loud car" juvenile (attitude not age); whining/begging for mommy to finally pay attention.

[Joeprunc]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:41 PM, Chaabo said:

Yeah, well … Newsmax …  LOL Don’t believe everything you read on FB.

For what’s it’s worth…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/25/california-didnt-require-electric-car-owners-stop-charging/5320286001/

I love the fact check, honestly I never visit FB anymore since is become such a cluster F.  Even if the Power Companies didn't tell you not to charge your EV....its hard to charge anything when the grid shuts off from 2-10PM 

[theloungelife]

I'm going EV for next tow vehicle for sure.  But...  my lakes are all within 50 miles and I store my boat at one most of the summer that is only 25 miles away.  Never do road trips.  It's different for each person.  Will work for some and not others.  

Anyone have a ton of reservation/preorders in?  I have a Rivian, a F150 Lightning and the Silverado EV.  Obviously only going to go with one.  I was leaning toward the F150 but the upcharge for the extended battery is kind of insane.  Leaning toward the Rivian now.  My guess for me based on when I put in reservations is that I won't have my hands on any of them till sonmetime in 2023.  

[shawndoggy]

4 minutes ago, theloungelife said:

I'm going EV for next tow vehicle for sure.  But...  my lakes are all within 50 miles and I store my boat at one most of the summer that is only 25 miles away.  Never do road trips.  It's different for each person.  Will work for some and not others.  

Anyone have a ton of reservation/preorders in?  I have a Rivian, a F150 Lightning and the Silverado EV.  Obviously only going to go with one.  I was leaning toward the F150 but the upcharge for the extended battery is kind of insane.  Leaning toward the Rivian now.  My guess for me based on when I put in reservations is that I won't have my hands on any of them till sonmetime in 2023.  

Very much looking forward to a review!

[oldjeep]

Not for me, but I won't be in the market for another truck until around 2027 - so who knows.

This ought to drive the hippies nuts.  They have been fighting against every new mine permit in northern MN for years.  Some of them might start to understand that they can't have their EV without mining the necessary minerals  

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/tesla-signs-deal-source-nickel-minnesota-mine/89-8d59bfa3-a016-457f-8044-d6c6eca819c9

[Sparky450]

3 hours ago, Joeprunc said:

I love the fact check, honestly I never visit FB anymore since is become such a cluster F.  Even if the Power Companies didn't tell you not to charge your EV....its hard to charge anything when the grid shuts off from 2-10PM 

@Joepruncis living it too😂😂

[RyanB]

12 hours ago, justgary said:

Engine noise is an old byproduct of creating power.  Car makers have to try to make noise now just for the few who think it sounds nice.  In fact, it is very annoying to others.  I shouldn't have to hear the kid in the "muscle car" a mile away who is impressed with himself and hits the pedal hard at every stop sign in his subdivision.  It's really great a 1 AM when he's coming home and making sure that everybody within a mile knows it. 

What is more impressive to me is that my truck can make 400 HP and *not* have to make a bunch of noise to do it.

To each their own. I hate loud boats, but one of the things I miss in the EcoBoost is a healthy exhaust note. I miss it even more in my Cayman. I’m still a V8 guy at heart, but enjoy the performance of turbos. I’d like the best of both worlds. Which further explains why I’m not drawn to the electric mandate that’s going to be forced on us.