Towing Truck

[LakePTDoc]

On 12/27/2021 at 4:13 PM, shawndoggy said:

Huh.  Here in Nevada I'm sure I wouldn't have enough savings on fuel cost to pay for the increase on insurance for the new vehicle, let alone the increased cost of registration.  When trying to figure out what's the most economical approach I've never been able to justify an upgrade.  It's always been less expensive for me to keep what I have.  That doesn't mean I don't upgrade, but it does mean that I don't try to trick myself into it with the "spend money to save money" trap.

 

I really like this approach and am semi-tempted to do a 2500 gasser.  apropos to my response to @LakePTDoc doc tho, I'm getting hung up on whether any cost savings realized on the front end would be lost on the backend with a gasser vs diesel.  Maybe I just need to find a used gasser that's already taken the big depreciation hit... ?

I live in Oklahoma and I am spending the same per gallon for the Diesel as I was with 89 octane in my 2015 5.3 they are about the same cost no matter the cost of gas. (low or high)  My insurance went down $20 dollars per six months with a 6 year newer truck, and the cost for the trim I wanted was a wash for the different engines.  I know some markets are different but the initial cost difference between the gas and diesel 1/2 tons has lowered since the engine debuted in 2019.  So aside from paying more for a newer truck per month, the cost of daily use is actually less because I am getting 6-12 mpg more for daily driving than I was with my 5.3 since I spend the same per gallon on the diesel as I did for the gas. I think insurance decrease was because the new tech on the new vehicles helping mitigate accidents which saves insurance companies money.  

[ThinBuLine]

22 hours ago, Rack said:

You Mean One of these?

K2500 Suburban  454 cu in Big Block

12 MPG towing

Exactly what I mean but modernized with an L5P duramax 🤤

[MLBurns]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:02 AM, ThinBuLine said:

I think the issue is weight of the boat pushing the truck around rather than tongue weight. For tongue weight, yes heavier duty 10 ply tires will support more weight and less risk of a blow out. 
 

these trucks have enough power now days to straight pull just about anything. Great example for the visual effect of this is the tundra pulling the space shuttle… marketing scheme successful and I have first hand account that the tundra can pull just about anything. 
 

however the issue for these half tons is stopping and turning. These heavy boats just push the lighter weight trucks around and the brakes arnt built to support that kind of load. They also don’t have exhaust brakes. 
 

I’ll get off my soap box but tires alone won’t make the truck tow any better or worse and you might be feeling a placebo effect with the bigger tires. Please be careful when towing heavy loads. 

I completely agree, but all too often on here you read the "my F150 doesn't even know it's back there" comments. I would be very curious how overloaded the factory 1/2 ton tires are towing a big boat with the bed full of gear. Trying to get that rig safely shut down with a blowout will be winning lottery ticket.

Edited December 31, 2021 by MLBurns
add on

[Sparky450]

17 hours ago, MLBurns said:

Trying to get that rig safely shut down with a blowout will be winning lottery ticket.

I wonder how many people have actually had a tread separating blowout, with a heavily loaded vehicle? It is not a fun situation to be in. It is also the reason I will not run cheap off brand tires on any of my vehicles. When the tread separates and beats on the bed of the truck and stops the wheel from spinning. Essentially locking up one brake, at 65 MPH it is a very unnerving feeling. Now put a 10k lb trailer behind you and see what the outcome is.

[BlindSquirrel]

Careful if you have a duramax. My brother’s 2020 with 47k miles had the “check def” system come on the other day. It also mentioned that in 55 miles it would go to limp mode, or 5 mph. He just filled the def tank. He made it to the dealer before limp mode locked in and they checked it out. Said they had good news and bad news. Good news is they found the def tank level sensor is bad and the whole tank will be replaced free under warranty. Bad news is there are 4 trucks out back waiting for the same back ordered part…. With no eta. Huge buzzkill. $80k paper weight now. It’s a shame what is happening to the diesel. 

[MLBurns]

11 hours ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Careful if you have a duramax. My brother’s 2020 with 47k miles had the “check def” system come on the other day. It also mentioned that in 55 miles it would go to limp mode, or 5 mph. He just filled the def tank. He made it to the dealer before limp mode locked in and they checked it out. Said they had good news and bad news. Good news is they found the def tank level sensor is bad and the whole tank will be replaced free under warranty. Bad news is there are 4 trucks out back waiting for the same back ordered part…. With no eta. Huge buzzkill. $80k paper weight now. It’s a shame what is happening to the diesel. 

The DEF tanks on all of them will have this issue if you let the fluid get low for very long. The fluid will crystallize in the tank causing the level sensor to stick. I had this issue with the Duramax and had it last year on a Cummins that only had 8k miles on it. Keep the tank over 1/2 full or delete is the best way to avoid this.

[RCorsa]

Do any of you towing experts know - Is there any need for a weight distribution hitch for towing a heavy boat (m240) with a new f250 with the max tow package?   Per the specs it says it does 20,000 conventional and there is no *in the details talking about one like the f150 has in the max tow package (that is rated at 12,500).   

After towing my old m235 with a 2019 raptor for a couple years I decided to upgrade my tow rig to a 3/4 ton with my incoming m240 and a guy on another forum I belong to was quite adamant that you should never tow anytime over 10k with anything less than a one ton?  

Edited January 28, 2022 by RCorsa

[BlindSquirrel]

20 minutes ago, MLBurns said:

The DEF tanks on all of them will have this issue if you let the fluid get low for very long. The fluid will crystallize in the tank causing the level sensor to stick. I had this issue with the Duramax and had it last year on a Cummins that only had 8k miles on it. Keep the tank over 1/2 full or delete is the best way to avoid this.

Interesting. Wonder why there isn't an easier fix, other than replacement, if the level senor is just stuck. Maybe try and get it unstuck? Especially since no parts are available and the truck wont work without it. Options at this point are to leave the truck and wait, dealer says now 4 months to a year for the part or pay $~6k for the delete kit and do it ourselves. 

[Cole2001]

2 hours ago, RCorsa said:

Do any of you towing experts know - Is there any need for a weight distribution hitch for towing a heavy boat (m240) with a new f250 with the max tow package?   Per the specs it says it does 20,000 conventional and there is no *in the details talking about one like the f150 has in the max tow package (that is rated at 12,500).   

After towing my old m235 with a 2019 raptor for a couple years I decided to upgrade my tow rig to a 3/4 ton with my incoming m240 and a guy on another forum I belong to was quite adamant that you should never tow anytime over 10k with anything less than a one ton?  

I wouldn’t worry about it with a f250. Will probably end up messing with your surge breaks more than anything.  Also this other guy is probably used to older HD trucks, current f250 and f350 models are nearly identical especially when equipped with max tow. 

[RyanB]

3 hours ago, RCorsa said:

quite adamant that you should never tow anytime over 10k with anything less than a one ton?

I would be interested to see how he would defend that statement.  Because I couldn't.  Personally, I wouldn't want to tow 10,000 on a regular basis with a 150/1500.  But most of todays 250/2500s are rated SAE J2807 rated to tow 20,000 pounds.

[jjackkrash]

6 hours ago, RCorsa said:

After towing my old m235 with a 2019 raptor for a couple years I decided to upgrade my tow rig to a 3/4 ton with my incoming m240 and a guy on another forum I belong to was quite adamant that you should never tow anytime over 10k with anything less than a one ton?  

Unless you move to a DRW, the modern 3/4 ton and 1 ton distinction is pretty minor.  At least on the GM products, and if IIRC Ford products as well, they are on the same chassis, have the same engine, transmission, brakes, etc., and almost all the same parts.  The one tons typically have stiffer rear suspension and maybe some different or more bolts on the front wheels.  On the newest GMs the 1 tons also have a bigger ring gear and are not torque limited in first gear, but this is a minor distinction.  If you are towing a fiver and have a lot of weight in the bed of the truck, you really want a 1 ton just for the payload ratings.  But, towing from the conventional bumper hitch, I would not blink about towing a 10K boat with a modern 3/4 ton unless the specific truck had some funky limits on the hitch carry weight.   I towed a nearly 40ft 10K TT with 1400 pounds of carry on the hitch and was within all specs with my 2 trucks ago 3/4 ton and don't see a 10K boat being any worse than that.  Just check the hitch rating.  

Edited January 28, 2022 by jjackkrash

[Surf4FamFun]

Get your VIN number and plug it into the Ford VIN decoder.  Presuming it is accurate it is the simplest way to see what your Ford will tow.  The SAE rating is a fun number but fi the truck can pull 12k but has a hitch limit of 500 pounds that limits you to a 5k trailer if you are going by the book.  Sample below is from a random 2020 F250 that I grabbed the VIN number for on Auto Trader.  Note you can tow 20k with a WDH but only 5k (500 pounds tongue wt) by the book.  Not saying it will not do just fine without the WDH but this is what the VIN decoder comes up with.  It is really hard to find documentation that shows hitch (tongue) weight limits.  If what you are looking does not include hitch limits then you are not into the details that allow you to determine (by the book) if you should have a WDH (notice I did not say need).  Also axel limits are part of the SAE calculation as well not just hitch limits.

Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.       5000  lbs  5000.0 min 5000.0 max

Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt.        500  lbs  500.0 min 500.0 max

Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.  20000, 15000, 12500  lbs  12300.0 min 20000.0 max

Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt.   2000, 1500, 1250  lbs  1230.0 min 2000.0 max

 

Good towing weight explanation relative to vehicle specifications.

https://youtu.be/gIhRJe1O5eY

 

Lots of people use air bags but this shows how it levels the truck but does not address keeping the load distributed across all the axels.  It also shows how the WDH (Weight Distributing Hitch) works differently than air bags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZu3...

 

This demonstrates how weight distribution impacts trailer sway.  Makes a really good case for WDH if towing something heavy by keeping the weight better distributed including more on the steering axel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mW_g...

[RCorsa]

Thanks for the explanation.  I don’t do a ton of towing so a lot of people have said my new truck is probably overkill but I prefer to be safe.  I have my ViN but where is that decoder? Unfortunately the you tube videos say “unavailable” when I click on them??

[MLBurns]

6 hours ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Interesting. Wonder why there isn't an easier fix, other than replacement, if the level senor is just stuck. Maybe try and get it unstuck? Especially since no parts are available and the truck wont work without it. Options at this point are to leave the truck and wait, dealer says now 4 months to a year for the part or pay $~6k for the delete kit and do it ourselves. 

On the Duramax's I always deleted when I started having DEF problems since I have had very good luck with them not requiring warranty work. The Cummins was too new and have a worse track record to delete that early in warranty, so I kept forcing regen (I have my own programmer/scanner) until it finally quit giving me the count down until limp mode since they won't do a full cycle regen if the tank level is low. After that I never let that truck's DEF get below 1/2 tank. Now I wish I would have tried this on a Duramax to see if it would fix it too. See if your brother knows a mechanic that has a Tech 2 scanner that will let him borrow it or ride around with him clearing the codes and forcing regen to see if it will fix it.

[Surf4FamFun]

25 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

Thanks for the explanation.  I don’t do a ton of towing so a lot of people have said my new truck is probably overkill but I prefer to be safe.  I have my ViN but where is that decoder? Unfortunately the you tube videos say “unavailable” when I click on them??

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php

 

The YouTube links work for me but on the laptop I posted from.  Will try another one.  If the Vin link does not work let me know,.

[hethj7]

1 hour ago, Surf4FamFun said:

Get your VIN number and plug it into the Ford VIN decoder.  Presuming it is accurate it is the simplest way to see what your Ford will tow.  The SAE rating is a fun number but fi the truck can pull 12k but has a hitch limit of 500 pounds that limits you to a 5k trailer if you are going by the book.  Sample below is from a random 2020 F250 that I grabbed the VIN number for on Auto Trader.  Note you can tow 20k with a WDH but only 5k (500 pounds tongue wt) by the book.  Not saying it will not do just fine without the WDH but this is what the VIN decoder comes up with.  It is really hard to find documentation that shows hitch (tongue) weight limits.  If what you are looking does not include hitch limits then you are not into the details that allow you to determine (by the book) if you should have a WDH (notice I did not say need).  Also axel limits are part of the SAE calculation as well not just hitch limits.

Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.       5000  lbs  5000.0 min 5000.0 max

Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt.        500  lbs  500.0 min 500.0 max

Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.  20000, 15000, 12500  lbs  12300.0 min 20000.0 max

Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt.   2000, 1500, 1250  lbs  1230.0 min 2000.0 max

 

I guess I'll question the info coming out of the VIN tool, and not that it didn't produce what you posted, but that it isn't an accurate tool.  I highly doubt any F250 in 2020 had a weight carrying limit of only 5,000 lbs from the factory.   And looking at the 2020 Ford Towing Guide I can't find an example of that.   The lowest published weight carrying limit for conventional towing I see is 12,300 lbs for a 4x4, Crew Cab, 3.73 axle, with the base 6.2L engine and the long bed with 176" wheelbase.   

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/2020_Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide.pdf

[hethj7]

I should add, yes, the specific hitch and options will matter.  But a 5,000 lbs limit would imply a 2" receiver and Class 3 hitch I think.  I don't know of any 3/4 tons being outfitted like that.    Maybe some were, but it sure seems to defeat the purpose of getting a 3/4 ton.   

FWIW, I just checked mine - Class V hitch, weight carrying and weight distribution both listed identically at 15,200 lbs.   2020 F250, CC, short bed, with the diesel and 3.31 rear end.  

[Bozboat]

5 hours ago, RCorsa said:

Thanks for the explanation.  I don’t do a ton of towing so a lot of people have said my new truck is probably overkill but I prefer to be safe.  I have my ViN but where is that decoder? Unfortunately the you tube videos say “unavailable” when I click on them??

Ford VIN Decoder

edit: close to useless 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Bozboat

[RCorsa]

Odd that Vin tracker shows my truck as a XLT base with an MSRP of 42K but the Ford Sticker its clearly a loaded Lariott with max tow package at 79K so something is off for sure

[Cole2001]

I’ve found vin decoder to be far from accurate. Better off using a window sticker generator but hard to find one that works. 

[vaporbluebu]

48 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

Odd that Vin tracker shows my truck as a XLT base with an MSRP of 42K but the Ford Sticker its clearly a loaded Lariott with max tow package at 79K so something is off for sure

VIN decoders aren’t even close to accurate.