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sure-path users group


tvano

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sure-path is amazing/ humbling. 

first sets w the new toy added a cacophony of new noises while in the course. 

i'm really (really) hoping that this weekends guide buoy adjustments/relocations will net a bit quieter ride.

let's use this topic to share stuff n things"... a user group of sorts?

iso: waterproof enclosure for corded bluetooth piece.  thinking something like a roll top drybag.  other thought/ideas?

 

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I doubt there are more than 5 people on this site who even know what sure-path is, and that there are more than 2 who've used it.

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1 hour ago, justgary said:

This has to be an oxymoron....

i'm the moron for that description. 

there is a piece of the puzzle that is corded (between the gps receiver/antenna and a bluetooth xmitter).

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8 hours ago, UWSkier said:

I doubt there are more than 5 people on this site who even know what sure-path is, and that there are more than 2 who've used it.

that will change.  it's a requirement.

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The technology behind it is awesome and the conversation behind it about how sensitive it is, is also fascinating. There was quite a bit of controversy earlier in the year at pro tournaments about re-rides. Haven’t been able to keep up with the last few tournaments so not sure how it’s gone. 
 

Also, don’t you think they could have put an image of an actual inboard on their display screen? Lol

+1 for who knows what it is too… :biggrin:

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User here.  I love it.  My 13 year old started driving me this summer and it was hard to explain what "straight done the middle" really means with a skier in tow.  Sure path explained it in about five minutes with visual and audio cues and data at the end.  He is still learning but now tows me in tolerance most sets.  And I can tell behind the boat, his driving flat out improved in a week or two.  I has also helped me identify some tendencies I needed to change to pull shortline skiers.   

I would like to learn how to survey the course to get it accurate.  My neighbor just surveyed and adjusted a course  for the Pro Am tourney this weekend, and it reportedly went went from just in record tolerance to dead bang perfect down to the centimeter with a few days work.  He said it was a PITA to get the bouys just right but worth it to know it is dead bang on.  

 

Edited by jjackkrash
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Cool side feature:  you can pick a new-model Malibu, MC, or SN boat for the visual running down the course in real time.  The stock SN matches my boat's color scheme so I got the goin' for me.  :)  

Edited by jjackkrash
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On my SN I ran the cable down the pylon; use a dremel to give me a little opening in the plug access panel; and drilled a small hole to let the cord into the bilge without bending.  Then I ran it to the glovebox through some of the drain holes.  It works perfect.  

IMG_4633 (1).jpeg

IMG_4634.jpeg

  • Like 2
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4 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

On my SN I ran the cable down the pylon; use a dremel to give me a little opening in the plug access panel; and drilled a small hole to let the cord into the bilge without bending.  Then I ran it to the glovebox through some of the drain holes.  It works perfect.  

IMG_4633 (1).jpeg

IMG_4634.jpeg

Do you have to tell the unit that you mounted the antenna off center?  It seems that you would have to since it would otherwise tell you where the antenna went.  You don't want that going down the center of the course.

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On 8/19/2021 at 4:34 PM, tvano said:

 

iso: waterproof enclosure for corded bluetooth piece.  thinking something like a roll top drybag.  other thought/ideas?

 

What are your storage and power options?  

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18 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

User here.  I love it.  My 13 year old started driving me this summer and it was hard to explain what "straight done the middle" really means with a skier in tow.  Sure path explained it in about five minutes with visual and audio cues and data at the end.  He is still learning but now tows me in tolerance most sets.  And I can tell behind the boat, his driving flat out improved in a week or two.  I has also helped me identify some tendencies I needed to change to pull shortline skiers.   

I would like to learn how to survey the course to get it accurate.  My neighbor just surveyed and adjusted a course  for the Pro Am tourney this weekend, and it reportedly went went from just in record tolerance to dead bang perfect down to the centimeter with a few days work.  He said it was a PITA to get the bouys just right but worth it to know it is dead bang on.  

 

Jon travers and Zack Worden have traveled to help survey courses. Could link it with a clinic maybe too!

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5 minutes ago, justgary said:

Do you have to tell the unit that you mounted the antenna off center?  It seems that you would have to since it would otherwise tell you where the antenna went.  You don't want that going down the center of the course.

You can mount it directly in back of or in front of the Pylon with no offset; I have the GPS puck mounted to the side with an 11 cm offset which you can program in to the rover.  You are in fact measuring the location of the pylon where the rope is connected.  This also means you are to a certain extent measuring the roll axis of the boat as well as path.  

Edited by jjackkrash
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10 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Jon travers and Zack Worden have traveled to help survey courses. Could link it with a clinic maybe too!

The ideal measurements are all based off the gates.  It sounds like once you survey the location of all the buoys you can dump the file into a program that shows you actual locations, tolerances, and ideals.  The trick is getting the measurements perfect and then adjusting the anchors and each time you adjust an anchor you need to resurvey everything.  It also sounds like you need zero wind,  a long wire for the puck, a battery pack, and something like a jon boat or paddle board to get the each buoy measured accurately without disturbing the buoy while it is being measured.  And a lot a patience.  

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I'm surprised to see them using a full-sized pinwheel antenna in the boat.  They could probably use a mini pinwheel or other antenna since multipath effects subside a bit when the boat is going over about 20 MPH or so.  Ideally, a bullet antenna would allow mounting directly over the pylon and still let the rope pass over.  On second thought, I can build you a mount that lets your pinwheel stand directly over the pylon and still allow access to the pylon.

I'm also surprised to see them using cell phones and WiFi rather than ISM band telemetry radios.  I do understand that some installations might need more standoff, but DGPS correction messages are very compact and don't need much bandwidth.

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4 minutes ago, justgary said:

I'm surprised to see them using a full-sized pinwheel antenna in the boat. 

I don't have much knowledge of the tech.  I had a smaller antenna puck first but they indicated it still needed to be mounted on a metal "ground plane" disc.  This puck had  a magnet and it slid around and got bumped a lot. The bigger antenna pictured was an "upgrade" that I ordered.  I like it a lot better than the other option because the offset is a known number and it does not slide around.  And I think it looks cool.  :)  

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10 minutes ago, justgary said:

I'm also surprised to see them using cell phones and WiFi rather than ISM band telemetry radios.  I do understand that some installations might need more standoff, but DGPS correction messages are very compact and don't need much bandwidth.

I think this is probably a cost-saving measure but I don't know the benefits of the other hardware.  The guy who made this stuff just took ag tech and readily available parts and made this on a bit of a whim.  But so far I love it.  

Edited by jjackkrash
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18 minutes ago, justgary said:

 On second thought, I can build you a mount that lets your pinwheel stand directly over the pylon and still allow access to the pylon.

Some guys at the lake are already fabbing different mount options.   And I wanted something like you described but there is some debate on whether over the pylon starts measuring more roll than you want measure.  It seems to me that you want to measure as close to the rope as possible if you want to know where the rope is connected in relation to the course but some guys think you should be measuring closer to the floor under the rope to measure the "boat" path and not pylon roll.    

Edited by jjackkrash
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1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

The ideal measurements are all based off the gates.  It sounds like once you survey the location of all the buoys you can dump the file into a program that shows you actual locations, tolerances, and ideals.  The trick is getting the measurements perfect and then adjusting the anchors and each time you adjust an anchor you need to resurvey everything.  It also sounds like you need zero wind,  a long wire for the puck, a battery pack, and something like a jon boat or paddle board to get the each buoy measured accurately without disturbing the buoy while it is being measured.  And a lot a patience.  

I have never done it but that sounds like a lot lol. Plus idk if you have ever hung out with those guys but they are an absolute riot and super nice. 

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4 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

I have never done it but that sounds like a lot lol. Plus idk if you have ever hung out with those guys but they are an absolute riot and super nice. 

We met Travers at Hilltop last year; the whole group of pro skiers there were great.  I could think of way worse ways of killing a Saturday that's for sure.    

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44 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Some guys at the lake are already fabbing different mount options.   And I wanted something like you described but there is some debate on whether over the pylon starts measuring more roll than you want measure.  It seems to me that you want to measure as close to the rope as possible if you want to know where the rope is connected in relation to the course but some guys think you should be measuring closer to the floor under the rope to measure the "boat" path and not pylon roll.    

In watching the sure path video, I don't see much roll at all.  I also notice that they appear to have their antenna on a boom well above and in front of the windshield of the boat.  Typically, you would want to tell the system of the antenna and pylon offsets as measured from the boat's CG so you could remove any lever arm effects and recalculate the motion of the pylon itself.

I suppose that I would consider putting two antennas on the boat; one on the bow and one near the stern at the centerline and taking a weighted mean to get the pylon position.  You could also get boat heading from that setup as well.

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For anyone interested the Hilltop ProAM is streaming live on the Waterski Broadcast Company (youtube) right now with some great coverage.  

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BlindSquirrel
1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

For anyone interested the Hilltop ProAM is streaming live on the Waterski Broadcast Company (youtube) right now with some great coverage.  

That water looks artificially blue. Pretty cool to watch.

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4 hours ago, BlindSquirrel said:

That water looks artificially blue. Pretty cool to watch.

Its blue dye.  It helps with weeds and makes the water look better.    

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