Response LXI Tow Vehicle

[jjackkrash]

Looking at boats right now, also considering a new-to-me tow vehicle (we currently have a 99 tropper that we bought new and that has done us well, but has a lot of miles, like 120k without a hickup). We live in Dallas, Texas, likely will tow to various lakes within two hours, fairly flat tow (on a clear day you can see the back of your head) need a tow vehicle that's also a daily driver for the CFO. (She commutes to DFW about 4 days a week, about 40 miles one way). I have been looking closely at 05 and 06 Toy 4runners and VW Touaregs's with v-8s. Also, we have (i just learned yesturday) a future three event champion on the way (our first) so safety seems like more of a factor than it used to be. Any pros or cons from personal experience I should know about, or alternates to consider? I know you guys are power junkies--which I respect--but cost is a factor.

[brazosvet]

Tahoe/Yukon.

[jjackkrash]

Tahoe/Yukon.

Why? Plusses/Minuses?

Thanks in advance for the input.

[brazosvet]

You want a tow vehicle that is heaver than the thing you are towing.

IMHO, small to mid-sized SUVs don't compare to the full size, heavy frame ones when it comes to stability, control, and the most important factor, stopping power. A Response LXi with trailer and all your goodies weighs around 2 tons. It doesn't take much of a hill for the boat to push you out of control.

[M3Fan]

You want a tow vehicle that is heaver than the thing you are towing.

IMHO, small to mid-sized SUVs don't compare to the full size, heavy frame ones when it comes to stability, control, and the most important factor, stopping power. A Response LXi with trailer and all your goodies weighs around 2 tons. It doesn't take much of a hill for the boat to push you out of control.

I'd agree with that to some extent but let's take a look a the vehicles that he's talking about and look at a few facts. Both are respectable towing machines and both are rated to tow over 7000lbs (if he goes with the V8 4R). The 4Runner weighs 4500 lbs with the V8 and is a full ladder frame vehicle. The Touraeg weighs 5200 lbs, which is quite heavy. I went with the 4R V8 specifically for a blend of good towing capabilities and good everyday driving characteristics. The full sizers out there are all too big for my daily driving and the latest generation of the Tahoe/Yukon are hidious in my opinion. GM has not been known for great brakes, ever. Without running out and grabbing the specs, I'd venture to guess that the Touraeg and the 4R have better brakes and more advanced stability control/suspension than the GM full size SUVs. I think these two vehicles are great alternatives to full-size vehicles for those of us who don't want to drive a bus around every day.

[BlastRlxi]

You want a tow vehicle that is heaver than the thing you are towing.

IMHO, small to mid-sized SUVs don't compare to the full size, heavy frame ones when it comes to stability, control, and the most important factor, stopping power. A Response LXi with trailer and all your goodies weighs around 2 tons. It doesn't take much of a hill for the boat to push you out of control.

I'd agree with that to some extent but let's take a look a the vehicles that he's talking about and look at a few facts. Both are respectable towing machines and both are rated to tow over 7000lbs (if he goes with the V8 4R). The 4Runner weighs 4500 lbs with the V8 and is a full ladder frame vehicle. The Touraeg weighs 5200 lbs, which is quite heavy. I went with the 4R V8 specifically for a blend of good towing capabilities and good everyday driving characteristics. The full sizers out there are all too big for my daily driving and the latest generation of the Tahoe/Yukon are hidious in my opinion. GM has not been known for great brakes, ever. Without running out and grabbing the specs, I'd venture to guess that the Touraeg and the 4R have better brakes and more advanced stability control/suspension than the GM full size SUVs. I think these two vehicles are great alternatives to full-size vehicles for those of us who don't want to drive a bus around every day.

I'll agree with M3Fan. We bought a V8 4Runner back in 2003 and we use it to tow our Rlxi. The 4Runner tows it with ease. It is very stable and plenty of power. The new 4Runners have an even stronger V8 than my 2003. I would highly recommend it to anyone. The other good thing about the 4Runner, in the nearly 4 years I've owned it, I've not had a single problem with it.

[grnautique]

I would also recommend the V8 4R. We bought a leftover 2005 model in November of 2005. I don't tow a lot but the times it pulls my boat like its not even there. Also, I have been impressed by the fuel economy. Its a V8, full time 4 wheel drive and we average about 19 MPG. On long highway trips we can get about 21. Also the truck is rock solid and we haven't had a single problem with it. The only down side I see to the 4R is that although a third row of seats is offered as an option, we were told that its pretty much impossible to find them.

[jjackkrash]

Thanks for the input on the 4runners. My thoughts were it has to be a daily driver for the CFO, and she likes the midsive SUVs. If I had my druthers, I'd get the new 5.7litre Tundra Crew Cab new for 07 (made in san antonio with close to 11,000lbs. towing cap) but this isn't really an option. We are leaning toward the 4runner because of its reputation for being bullit proof, and I like the idea of putting more than 100k miles on it, but that VW interior is really nice. I just don't have a good feel for the VW's reliability track record.

Thanks,

Jack

[edwin]

Another added bonus for the 4Runner is resale value...best mid size out there by a mile.

[wienrdog]

The VW interiors are really nice. Unfortunately, VW is near the bottom of the reliability lists. I've heard a lot of FUD spread about them, but know that they do have some issues (co-worker's Jetta) and parts can to take a while (> 1 week) to get if they're not in stock.

We tow with a Pathfinder V6 we use as my wife's daily driver also. She refuses to drive one of the full size SUVs on a daily basis. Overall, I wouldn't recommend it as the rear springs are too soft. A single pole weight distributing hitch has really improved the towing feel. That said, our next tow vehicle will be either the Toy 4R V8 or Lex GX unless someone comes out with a better mid-size tow vehicle before we buy.

[VinRLX]

What year is the Pathfinder? They are redesigned and better for towing now, IIUC.

[wienrdog]

The Pathfinder is a '01 with 90K miles - 3.5L V6 - 240 HP, 250 FT/#. It has plenty of power to pull, but really 'wallowed' at the rear with the boat on it. The weight distributing hitch took care of the wallowing. The other issue is it only has 4 speed OD transmission. Where we often tow - the hilly interstates of KY, the engine will scream with OD off (3K -> 3.5K RPM). With OD on (2.6K RPM), then engine seems more comfortable, but the torque converter will unlock more than I like on long hills. For a daily driver with 1 little one, it's excellent & I would highly recommend it. They may have made improvements since we bought it (4L V6 - 265HP - 288 Ft/#, 5Spd, doesn't list tow mode on transmission).

[dlb]

My sister tows with ther VW says it is fine. They have had the vehicle over 2 years and no problems.

[johnsvt]

Toyota will be adequate for what you are doing and the VW is known for electrcal issues. I would go with 4Runner if given those two choices.

[VinRLX]

They may have made improvements since we bought it (4L V6 - 265HP - 288 Ft/#, 5Spd, doesn't list tow mode on transmission).

The frame is different as well.

[barefootski]

I have some recent experience towing with my wife's 2003 Expedition. One week ago, we purchased our first boat, a 2006 Response LXI with Extreme tower and Hammerhead engine. We traveled 600 miles one way to pick-up the boat. We traveled through the hills/mountains around Chattanooga, Tennessee en route to Atlanta, GA to take delivery on our first boat. The Expedition did just fine, I'm not sure I would want to tow that distance with anything smaller. I drive a 2003 Infiniti FX45 which has a towing capacity of 3500 lbs according to the manufacturer. Granted my Infiniti has more horsepower than the Expedition but the Infiniti is not built on a truck frame. The OEM hitch receiver for the Infiniti is a class II hitch, not a class III hitch. As far as an every day driver, I would pick my Infiniti which has more safety features but is considerably smaller than a full size SUV. (I know I'm kinda comparing apples to oranges). Fuel efficiency is not great for either of our vehicles but what non hybrid full size SUV or mid-size SUV gets more than 20 mpg? Our Expedition has 96000 miles and we have not had any major problems.

If you are expecting a child; (congratulations by the way) how long do you plan on keeping your SUV? Do you plan to have other kids within the next two years? The reason I ask is that it is nice to have the extra room in your SUV for an expanding family and all the stuff that goes with taking the kids to see family or taking the family out on the boat. Loading our kids into their car seat and booster seat is eaiser in a full size SUV than compared to a mid-size SUV. Maybe that is because my Infiniti sits lower to the ground. Anyway,

just wanted to share my thoughts.

[jjackkrash]

I have some recent experience towing with my wife's 2003 Expedition. One week ago, we purchased our first boat, a 2006 Response LXI with Extreme tower and Hammerhead engine. We traveled 600 miles one way to pick-up the boat. We traveled through the hills/mountains around Chattanooga, Tennessee en route to Atlanta, GA to take delivery on our first boat. The Expedition did just fine, I'm not sure I would want to tow that distance with anything smaller. I drive a 2003 Infiniti FX45 which has a towing capacity of 3500 lbs according to the manufacturer. Granted my Infiniti has more horsepower than the Expedition but the Infiniti is not built on a truck frame. The OEM hitch receiver for the Infiniti is a class II hitch, not a class III hitch. As far as an every day driver, I would pick my Infiniti which has more safety features but is considerably smaller than a full size SUV. (I know I'm kinda comparing apples to oranges). Fuel efficiency is not great for either of our vehicles but what non hybrid full size SUV or mid-size SUV gets more than 20 mpg? Our Expedition has 96000 miles and we have not had any major problems.

If you are expecting a child; (congratulations by the way) how long do you plan on keeping your SUV? Do you plan to have other kids within the next two years? The reason I ask is that it is nice to have the extra room in your SUV for an expanding family and all the stuff that goes with taking the kids to see family or taking the family out on the boat. Loading our kids into their car seat and booster seat is eaiser in a full size SUV than compared to a mid-size SUV. Maybe that is because my Infiniti sits lower to the ground. Anyway,

just wanted to share my thoughts.

Thanks for the input and congrats on the new boat. We both bought our cars very-slightly-used last time and we both and have 120k on them now, but, if we outgrew a vehicle, I wouldn't be that upset trading up. If nature allows, we would like two children (no more than that) in the next two years.

Do you love your new boat? Have you driven it yet? I am looking at 05 and 06 RLxis, and going to the FW boat show today to hopefully see an 07. Likely can't afford one, but I still want to see them before I decide.

[barefootski]

The previous owner of my boat lived in Flordia where he did not winterize the boat. Myself, living in Missouri; I requested and paid for the dealer to winterize the boat before I took delivery. The boat remains under warranty. I have not actually driven the boat but I have friends (BillFooter, Sunset Bob) that all have Malibu's that I have skied with and driven so after months of research using this web site (and many discussions with BillFooter) I decided to buy so I will be ready for the upcoming boating season. I purchased a promo boat which helped on the price somewhat.

Both of our vehicles were purchased used, we have yet to buy a brand new vehicle, the boat was about as close to new (it was only used in one tournament) as we have every purchased/financed. Give me a PM if you want to discuss any details.

[GTI2lo]

Touareg get my vouch for SAFETY

Got t-boned on the Drivers side by a 93 Caddilac Seville who ran a red light at 40 mph.... I walked away!!

Only 12k in damage!! Touareg is bulit like a truck...

only 2004 model had relaibility problems and only the first 49,000 units produced...

Look into it.. VW are very good now.. also resale is good too and warranty takes care of you for everytihng.

We have a late production 2004 V8 Touarag with almost

[mrothwell]

Fuel efficiency is not great for either of our vehicles but what non hybrid full size SUV or mid-size SUV gets more than 20 mpg? Our Expedition has 96000 miles and we have not had any major problems.

The '07 Tahoe/Yukon/Suburbans get better than 20 mpg. My buddy is getting 21 with his denali XL with a 6.2 on the road. The 5.3's are doing a little better than that.

Also, the last few years, the brakes on the GM's have been much improved. My 03 sub has really firm responsive brakes, and I just had to replace them for the first time at 80k miles.

I like a full sized vehicle for towing, but that's just me.

[electricjohn]

If he is getting 21 mpg, I doubt he is geared for towing.

[mrothwell]

If he is getting 21 mpg, I doubt he is geared for towing.

The 6.2 will tow great, and it has the Allison Tranny. It is getting that good of mileage due to the active fuel management. In town, it isn't great, but on the road it's incredible.

[HRemington]

If one were in the 2003-2005 used 4Runner market...for basic towing but not a lot of it (10 miles one way without many hills) and one 250 mile one way trip per year...Response LX w/single axle trailer...would a V6 w/towing package work, or should nothing but the V8 be considered, and if V8 only, do you consider 4WD a requirement for this vehicle and these conditions?

[M3Fan]

If one were in the 2003-2005 used 4Runner market...for basic towing but not a lot of it (10 miles one way without many hills) and one 250 mile one way trip per year...Response LX w/single axle trailer...would a V6 w/towing package work, or should nothing but the V8 be considered, and if V8 only, do you consider 4WD a requirement for this vehicle and these conditions?

In 05 they switched to a much improved V8, so if you're shopping V8's then start your search in 05- the V6 is no slouch, though. The V8 has other options besides the engine that may be helpful such as a large trans cooler, different brakes and hitch.

I towed with a 99 (previous generation) 4Runner V6 for 3 years with no real problems- short trips to the lake and 1 300 mile trip per year, but it was no speed demon with the boat attached. Always felt smooth and solid, and my 3 years of towing had no apperent affect on the truck at all- still shifting and running beautifully after 92k miles. I'd say you'd be fine with either engine. If you go with the V6, get an aux. trans cooler.

[HRemington]

Thanks, M3, that helps. Let me put it to ya'll this way. With the 4Runner and my fairly modest towing requirements, coupled with the fact that 95% of driving will just be plain 'ol driving and not towing...would you prefer V6 w/o 4WD, V6 w/ 4WD, V8 w/o 4WD, or V8 w/4WD, factoring in initial cost, maintenance costs, and fuel economy?