Another Prop Thread...

[23MXZ4ME]

Hello,

I am new to this Forum and this is my first post. I am the proud new owner of a brand new 2021 23MXZ. This is my first boat but I have been around boats my entire life but never been the owner. I have always been on my family or friends boats. I am now the "Friend with a boat" LOL. I could not be happier with my purchase. This boat is absolutely amazing! I have taken it out 3 times now and have about 14 hours on it. 

Well the bad news is I dinged my prop up while putting the boat back on the trailer this past weekend. I drove the boat onto the trailer and thought I was centered well...according to my 16 year old son I was centered and it felt centered. I gave it a little throttle to get the eyelet snugged up to bumper ( I have done this 100's of times with other boats) and the boat yawed a bit and the prop dinged the frame. Luckily it is going to be repairable but I am thinking about putting a 17x17 prop on it. Good news is the shop that is getting me the prop said I can return it if I don't like the performance. The prop that came on the boat is a OJ V4 17X15.5. After reading some posts on here it sounds like I might be happier with the 17x17 and I can save the 17X15.5 for boating at altitude. My top speed with about 5 people in the boat was about 37-38 miles an hour. I assume I will get a few more MPH's with the 17x17 prop But I want to make sure I still have a good prop for surfing. I found that with the boat fully ballasted with the wedge in position 1, I had an awesome steep wake that had good length at 11.6 MPH. This was for right side surfing. left side was a little different. I found it Better to have about 75% ballast on the right side of the boat when surfing the left side and about 11.8 MPH with the wedge in position 1. 

 

I am curious what top speeds I will get to with the 17x17 and will surfing suffer at all? From what I read so far it seems like I will be just fine but thought I would ask specifically for my situation. Oh, I typically will be boating on the California Delta in Nor Cal or at some the lakes that are with about 2 to 3 hours of me... Lake Tulloch, New Malones, Don Pedro, Lake McClure, Camanche etc. There will be the occasional trip to Donner or Tahoe as well.

BTW...No more throttling the boat to the bumper. I will be putting the trailer deeper in the water and winching it snug from now on. expensive lesson learned! LOL

Thanks,

Mike

[Surf4FamFun]

We have the same hull/year and the 17x15.5 prop, assume you have the M6, don't think you would be happy with that combination and the M5.  Our PNP bags are 650 lb according to what is printed on them.  From what I have read I am thinking the 17/17 would give your 42-43 mph but don't know from first hand experience

I am probably going to try the same change on prop but the current config works very well and not terribly motivated.

Some  cautions, when comparing props and apparently similar boats keep in mind that depending on year and installed motor the transmission may be either a 2.0 (more recent) or 1.76 ratio (someone will correct me if I got that right) which is a pretty big difference.  

You will likely find some people who want more ramp from the wedge.  Had a guest a couple of weeks ago wanted a 4 wedge at 11.8 goofy.  He wanted to try a 6 but the M6 would not pull it.  Most behind our boat use a 1 or 2, 3 is not that unusual.

For us crew size varies a lot.  Weekdays after school with the kids probably 900 pounds.  On both vacation trips to the lake this summer with 12 - 16 in the house the boat had a  crew ranging from 1,200 to 1,900 hundred pounds.

Just some variables to consider.

[bcoppess23]

Friend and I both run the OJ 1770 17x17 props behind our boats and are happy with them.  My boat is a '21 23 LSV and his is a '21 Axis A24.  We primarily wakeboard and we both can run rear PNP full + full stock ballast + wedge position 3 or 4 at 21-22 MPH without any problems.  On his Axis, his rear PNP are the 900's.  We are not at elevation and these props run flawlessly.  It is great.  Don't really know what top speed is, nor care.  Surfing speeds for us 10.8 mph, RPMS are around 3100.

[23MXZ4ME]

13 hours ago, Surf4FamFun said:

We have the same hull/year and the 17x15.5 prop, assume you have the M6, don't think you would be happy with that combination and the M5.  Our PNP bags are 650 lb according to what is printed on them.  From what I have read I am thinking the 17/17 would give your 42-43 mph but don't know from first hand experience

I am probably going to try the same change on prop but the current config works very well and not terribly motivated.

Some  cautions, when comparing props and apparently similar boats keep in mind that depending on year and installed motor the transmission may be either a 2.0 (more recent) or 1.76 ratio (someone will correct me if I got that right) which is a pretty big difference.  

You will likely find some people who want more ramp from the wedge.  Had a guest a couple of weeks ago wanted a 4 wedge at 11.8 goofy.  He wanted to try a 6 but the M6 would not pull it.  Most behind our boat use a 1 or 2, 3 is not that unusual.

For us crew size varies a lot.  Weekdays after school with the kids probably 900 pounds.  On both vacation trips to the lake this summer with 12 - 16 in the house the boat had a  crew ranging from 1,200 to 1,900 hundred pounds.

Just some variables to consider.

Thank you for the response I appreciate it! Yes I have the M6 motor. I just found out the my stock prop is repairable so I am happy about that and will get it repaired. I will be testing the 17x17 this Sunday. If I don't care fort it I can return it which is nice. I definitely had no complaints with the 17x15.5 stock prop but I was able to get the 17x17 immediately and get to try it for free LOL. If I like it better then I will keep it on there and use my repaired stock prop as an elevation prop. I will report back after this Sunday! My boat is brand new 2021 14 hours on it so I believe it is the 2.0 trans. 

 

Thanks again,

Mike Miller  

[23MXZ4ME]

13 hours ago, bcoppess23 said:

Friend and I both run the OJ 1770 17x17 props behind our boats and are happy with them.  My boat is a '21 23 LSV and his is a '21 Axis A24.  We primarily wakeboard and we both can run rear PNP full + full stock ballast + wedge position 3 or 4 at 21-22 MPH without any problems.  On his Axis, his rear PNP are the 900's.  We are not at elevation and these props run flawlessly.  It is great.  Don't really know what top speed is, nor care.  Surfing speeds for us 10.8 mph, RPMS are around 3100.

Thank you for your response! Awesome sounds like I won't be disappointed. I am not really interested in top speed either just wake and surf performance. I was just curious as a comparison to what I am getting now which is about 37 MPH. 

 

Thank you again!

Mike 

[Slayer]

6 minutes ago, 23MXZ4ME said:

Thank you for your response! Awesome sounds like I won't be disappointed. I am not really interested in top speed either just wake and surf performance. I was just curious as a comparison to what I am getting now which is about 37 MPH. 

 

Thank you again!

Mike 

For reference, I have the ACME 2805, which is effectively the same as the OJ that @bcoppess23has and I love the performance.  He and I have the same boat with the M6 and I'm seen WOT top speeds just north of 40 MPH.  I see similar RPM as he does while surfing depending on speed and ballast based on rider skill and age.  

 

 

[23MXZ4ME]

1 hour ago, Slayer said:

For reference, I have the ACME 2805, which is effectively the same as the OJ that @bcoppess23has and I love the performance.  He and I have the same boat with the M6 and I'm seen WOT top speeds just north of 40 MPH.  I see similar RPM as he does while surfing depending on speed and ballast based on rider skill and age.  

 

 

Awesome! the 2805 is the prop that I had them install and will be testing this Sunday. Sounds like I am going to enjoy this prop and end up with spare that can also be used at altitude!

 

Thank you,

Mike Miller

[Slayer]

15 minutes ago, 23MXZ4ME said:

Awesome! the 2805 is the prop that I had them install and will be testing this Sunday. Sounds like I am going to enjoy this prop and end up with spare that can also be used at altitude!

 

Thank you,

Mike Miller

Happy to help.  I have my "standard" prop that came with my boat as a back up.  The 2805 is awesome, as is the OJ that @bcoppess23is running.

 

[RoverOn]

Kind of off topic but what did you hit the prop on?  Bunk, cage, tie down?  Was your trailer too far in the water?  Not trying to nitpick but I didn’t even think this could be an issue and now I am worried :-(

[23MXZ4ME]

10 hours ago, RoverOn said:

Kind of off topic but what did you hit the prop on?  Bunk, cage, tie down?  Was your trailer too far in the water?  Not trying to nitpick but I didn’t even think this could be an issue and now I am worried :-(

So there are three bars that "surround" the prop on my trailer. One is directly underneath, one is to the left side and one is to the right side of the prop. They run from back to front. The boat yawed pretty good to the left which made the rear of the boat go to the right. This was totally my fault. But to be honest I did not think this could happen either. I think the bottom of the "V" of the haul was actually to the left of the channel it was supposed to be in as I drove the boat onto the trailer. My son said I was centered but I obviously was not. This last tine out I just backed a bit further down the ramp and used the wench to pull the boat up the last foot or so. It was not a big deal. This was no more problems. 

 

regards,

Mike        

[SteveQ]

I run the OJ 1770 17x17 on my 2021 23 LSV with the M6 and have similar results as @bcoppess23 mentioned above.  I run 650 bags + stock ballast all full both surfing and wakeboarding with no issues at 1000 ft elevation.

[NWBU]

21 hours ago, RoverOn said:

Kind of off topic but what did you hit the prop on?  Bunk, cage, tie down?  Was your trailer too far in the water?  Not trying to nitpick but I didn’t even think this could be an issue and now I am worried :-(

On a related note, a friend just found out why the transom straps should never be left hanging while unstrapped. 

[RoverOn]

19 hours ago, NWBU said:

On a related note, a friend just found out why the transom straps should never be left hanging while unstrapped. 

 

Barely caught mine once (heard the clang) and now I tighten them ALL the way down prior to unloading :-)

 

[REHinH20]

19 hours ago, NWBU said:

On a related note, a friend just found out why the transom straps should never be left hanging while unstrapped. 

Is that "ding" on the prop cage from this also or is there some other issue?

[NWBU]

40 minutes ago, REHinH20 said:

Is that "ding" on the prop cage from this also or is there some other issue?

That happened when the prop sucked in the strap and then pulled to the right, before ripping off the transom strap bracket. 

[23MXZ4ME]

So I thought I would follow up on this now that I have run the 17x17 prop. I did really enjoy the boat with this prop. The only downside which I don't think is really a downside is that the preprogrammed surf Left/right setting on the boat is set to full ballast (fill everything including PNP) 11.8 MPH, wedge in position 4. It might be 11.6 MPH now that I think about it....anyway I had the MPH set at 11.8 and with the wedge in position 6 and the boat would not go above 11.4 MPH. Where as with the 17x15.5 had no problem getting to 11.8 MPH in the same condition. I am fine with this because I think I need to be surfing a bit slower anyway. I am still playing around with these settings trying the get the best right side and left side wake.        

[NWBU]

4 hours ago, 23MXZ4ME said:

So I thought I would follow up on this now that I have run the 17x17 prop. I did really enjoy the boat with this prop. The only downside which I don't think is really a downside is that the preprogrammed surf Left/right setting on the boat is set to full ballast (fill everything including PNP) 11.8 MPH, wedge in position 4. It might be 11.6 MPH now that I think about it....anyway I had the MPH set at 11.8 and with the wedge in position 6 and the boat would not go above 11.4 MPH. Where as with the 17x15.5 had no problem getting to 11.8 MPH in the same condition. I am fine with this because I think I need to be surfing a bit slower anyway. I am still playing around with these settings trying the get the best right side and left side wake.        

Add a little more bow weight and play with it some more. That will length your wave and bring the prop angle down so the boat isn’t working so hard.

[NMMalibuFamily]

Any opinions on the difference between the Acme 2805 versus the OJ 1770 - both 17" x 17"?  The only difference appears to be the Cup.  Acme has a cup of .105" versus OJ with a cup of .120".  Acme 2805 seems to be hard to find or pricey at $1,100 while OJ 1770 can be picked up for around $880. 

We are running the OJ 1773 (17" x 14") on a '22 23 LSV with the Diamond Hull.  Looking to have a spare prop that's not the exact same.  Seems like people like the 2805 and I wonder if the same is true of the 1770 even if the cup is slightly different.  

 

[CaptainMorgan]

On 5/3/2022 at 2:14 PM, NMMalibuFamily said:

Any opinions on the difference between the Acme 2805 versus the OJ 1770 - both 17" x 17"?  The only difference appears to be the Cup.  Acme has a cup of .105" versus OJ with a cup of .120".  Acme 2805 seems to be hard to find or pricey at $1,100 while OJ 1770 can be picked up for around $880. 

We are running the OJ 1773 (17" x 14") on a '22 23 LSV with the Diamond Hull.  Looking to have a spare prop that's not the exact same.  Seems like people like the 2805 and I wonder if the same is true of the 1770 even if the cup is slightly different.  

 

bumping this question as i too am curious about the Acme 2805 vs OJ 1770?  i'm specifically interested if anyone ran them on an A24 with the 409 engine at sea level like me (i'm sure it would be fine with an M6). 

I am looking for a backup prop to my current 3077 which does the job fine but a few mph faster on top end would be nice.  I'm simply waffling between a direct backup of known commodity vs risk of trying something new to perhaps get a little extra top end and making the 3077 my backup.  If someone has already done this experiment and knows the 17" pitch will limit surfing, that'll just save me the headache. @Slurpeeprobably has the most prop data i've seen (love those graphs btw, if i was local to you i'd totally be a partner in crime), but didn't see any OJ1770 nor anyone with 'just' a 409 in a big boat.

Background:  2019 A24, 409 engine, 2:1 transmission, sea level, currently have 3077.  Surfing & cruising only, no wakeboarding. Typically run full PnP + 300 lbs lead under OB seat, 1 driver + 1 spotter, 11.3mph, Wedge 3 for regular (3500 rpm), Wedge 2 for goofy (3200rpm). 

any comments from folks with related experience would be appreciated

Edited August 9, 2022 by CaptainMorgan

[Slurpee]

Sorry. I don’t have that data. Interesting idea though to get more.  Consider the torch passed. 

[CaptainMorgan]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:56 PM, Slurpee said:

Sorry. I don’t have that data. Interesting idea though to get more.  Consider the torch passed. 

I'm no-where near ready to handle the responsibility of Prop King, i don't even have a scangauge!

My current thinking is that since 3077 is perfectly fine, i can be slightly risky on a backup prop.  If backup works better, i win and 3077 sits in the garage.  if its worse, i keep running the 3077 and backup sits on a shelf until necessary (when it would go into service temporarily while 3077 gets repaired/replaced). 

Realistically i only expect difference of a couple hundred rpm in various setups (your old results of 3077 vs 2805 showed surf differences of like 0.5gph/100rpm). I even have an old Acme email saying those 2 are super similar, basically cup and pitch kinda offset eachother (to first order).

Since the engineer in me thinks it would be fun to experiment with different props, i may go for something else to add to the overall TMC prop knowledge (using my simplistic tachometer & paddlewheel).  Will probably be a while given work + kids school / activities picking backup, and fact i want to get a good baseline of rpm vs MPH both empty and ballasted before i switch anything, but if i take data i'll definitely post it.  

[Olddognewtricks]

No engineer here but shopping for a spare prop as well.  

2022 23 lsv with M6 at sea level. dealer here puts acme 3537 on all of them.  It is a 16.5 x 14 prop so I’m wondering what a 17 x 17 like the 2805 would do.   Have had no issues at all with the M6 with plenty of power and no Issues with speed.   
 

anybody made that kind If change?

[NWBU]

1 minute ago, Olddognewtricks said:

No engineer here but shopping for a spare prop as well.  

2022 23 lsv with M6 at sea level. dealer here puts acme 3537 on all of them.  It is a 16.5 x 14 prop so I’m wondering what a 17 x 17 like the 2805 would do.   Have had no issues at all with the M6 with plenty of power and no Issues with speed.   
 

anybody made that kind If change?

Yes, and do it! I run my M220 with the M6 at 5000’ elevation using the 2805. You’ll love that prop, compared to the 17x14.

[CaptainMorgan]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:04 PM, CaptainMorgan said:

I'm no-where near ready to handle the responsibility of Prop King, i don't even have a scangauge!

My current thinking is that since 3077 is perfectly fine, i can be slightly risky on a backup prop.  If backup works better, i win and 3077 sits in the garage.  if its worse, i keep running the 3077 and backup sits on a shelf until necessary (when it would go into service temporarily while 3077 gets repaired/replaced). 

Realistically i only expect difference of a couple hundred rpm in various setups (your old results of 3077 vs 2805 showed surf differences of like 0.5gph/100rpm). I even have an old Acme email saying those 2 are super similar, basically cup and pitch kinda offset eachother (to first order).

Since the engineer in me thinks it would be fun to experiment with different props, i may go for something else to add to the overall TMC prop knowledge (using my simplistic tachometer & paddlewheel).  Will probably be a while given work + kids school / activities picking backup, and fact i want to get a good baseline of rpm vs MPH both empty and ballasted before i switch anything, but if i take data i'll definitely post it.  

i haven't finished my experiments, but before pulling the boat this fall i did take data on the 3077 (17" diam, 15.5" pitch, .150" cup).  When i launch in the spring it'll have a 2969 (17" diam, 17" pitch, .150 cup) and i plan to do the same experiment described below when i get a super flat day (which may be a while, so figured i'd post this to humor prop nerds over the winter).

2019 A24 w/ Monsoon 409 and 2:1 transmission. Sea level.  500 lbs lead (350 lbs in OB/amp compartment, 150 lbs walkway). 1 driver, only 'resident' gear like ropes and spare lifejackets/tubes onboard. Taken on a calm, near-glass morning by setting rpm every 500, and eyeballing/averaging speed displayed on paddle-wheel sensor over a ~10sec period.  once on plane, i'd put error +/- 0.5mph from wind conditions/eye-averaging/water glassness.  Bimini was deployed with 2 surfboards in racks as well -- i note that because another day without bimini or boards, the WOT went up from 35.0-37.0 and i hypothesize their wind resistance was primary cause (since it scales with velocity squared should only affect top couple datapoints slightly and i didn't have time to re-take).

for reference, i tried a couple wakeboard speeds with wedge in lift (as that was mentioned somewhere), and speeds went down by 0.5-1.0 mph -- so while it can shape the wake behind, the drag of the wedge only slowed me down.  i did not run the whole curve with full ballast (as that's not a common use case for us), but needless to say, i expect all the speeds to go down a little - tho without a scanguage, wouldn't know under the hood how much harder the engine is working.

Surf datapoints: i typically run lead above, full PnP, 11.2mph / wedge 2 or 3, just driver & spotter -- usually see 3400-3500rpm regular and 3100-3200rpm goofy.  Curious to see if the new prop changes surfing rpm, but i expect it'll change cruising by a few mph on top end.

[Woodski]

Nice data set.  I also add GPS speed off my phone app, resolution is to tenths on the app.  App even has the sultry British voice 😂