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which fuel pump 2004 VLX 340 Monsoon? fuel issues?? troubleshoot help


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I believe the pump is either failing  or i am getting water in my gas from my port side gas vent from spray from the tabs i added.

 

  I use almost half a tank or more every time out and fill it before every ride at different stations,

 

Yet every time out just the last 3 times in row..ive put sea foam in but the boat will run fine and   intermittently just sputter and want to die..at first was omnly when we were surfing portside never running across the lake or wakeboarding but was doing it last week just when surfing at first as i wakeboard first and no issues but last set it did it once wakeboarding.

 

ill stop, restart and go its been getting worse the more we ride..

 

it was just an hour or two into ridng like yesterday,

 

we rode 4-5 surfers left and right, no issues first sets cruised medium speed across river to change spot and i was using tabs to keep bow from bouncing and it shoots up lots of water on the sides of the boat,...when we got to the spot and starting it started sputtering. More then usual..ive changed the fuel filter before the season and only thing i can come up , all maintenance has been done the last two seasons plugs wires, ignition coil, oil fuel filters oil pressure switch and sensor etc etc so its very random on how and when it happens and all i can now come up with is fuel, water in tank each time out 

it doesnt appear to be electrical batteries are strong everything works including all amps and speakers, start quick and motor sounds strong. all temps etc seem to be inline..

 

so to the fuel any way to turn or change vent to make it less likely to get water in it?

any ideas as to my issue??

 

do i need the kit

https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-556014-fuel-pump-conversion-kit-to-pierburg.html

 

or will this go back straight replacement?

 

https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-pierburg-fuel-pump-2003-2006-indmar-engines.html

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BlindSquirrel
26 minutes ago, thebill said:

Before I would spend money replacing the fuel pump, I would check the fuel pressure at the rail to make sure that is the issue. A fuel pressure gauge is not expensive or even some auto part stores will loan them to you for free. Changing the pump will not help keep water out of your gas, if that's the issue. I guess I'm trying to say, you are not at the point yet in your investigation to start buying new parts. 

Edited by BlindSquirrel
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so has anyone experienced thes issues an the vent pick up water? can it be modified to be pointed anther direction to avoid water getting in there..??

 

if not the pump, then water if not water, VAPOR LOCK, WHICH IS MOST LIELY FROM MY DECSRIPTION?

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4 hours ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Before I would spend money replacing the fuel pump, I would check the fuel pressure at the rail to make sure that is the issue. A fuel pressure gauge is not expensive or even some auto part stores will loan them to you for free. Changing the pump will not help keep water out of your gas, if that's the issue. I guess I'm trying to say, you are not at the point yet in your investigation to start buying new parts. 

i realize this however its so random and intermittent no way it would be found at fuel pressure check..changing the FP on a 2004 doesnt seem unreasonable given eventually would need it anyway just looking for advise..

 

so has anyone experienced thes issues an the vent pick up water? can it be modified to be pointed anther direction to avoid water getting in there..??

 

if not the pump, then water if not water, VAPOR LOCK, WHICH IS MOST LIKELY FROM MY DECSRIPTION?

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59 minutes ago, thebill said:

i realize this however its so random and intermittent no way it would be found at fuel pressure check..changing the FP on a 2004 doesnt seem unreasonable given eventually would need it anyway just looking for advise..

 

so has anyone experienced thes issues an the vent pick up water? can it be modified to be pointed anther direction to avoid water getting in there..??

 

if not the pump, then water if not water, VAPOR LOCK, WHICH IS MOST LIKELY FROM MY DECSRIPTION?

You say you are looking for advise; @BlindSquirrel gave it to you.  A fuel pressure check would rule out fuel pump and regulator problems.   A decent fuel pressure gauge would also allow you to vent some fuel into a jar while it is happening so you can see if water is present in the fuel rail.

Yes, your fuel vent can pick up water if you allow water to hit it.  I would fix the thing causing the spray rather than cobble up the vent.

Finally, SHOUTING IS NEVER NEEDED on this forum.  That alone can run off all of the help, leaving you without any answers at all.

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BlindSquirrel
1 hour ago, thebill said:

i realize this however its so random and intermittent no way it would be found at fuel pressure check..changing the FP on a 2004 doesnt seem unreasonable given eventually would need it anyway just looking for advise..

Knock yourself out and change the fuel pump. :dontknow: Better yet, with that logic, your steering cable will eventually need replaced.. may as well change it while you're at it. Until you find the real reason behind your issue, replacing parts will not yield different results unless you get lucky. I'm pretty sure engines don't run well with water in the gas. Starting there seems easier than replacing parts. 

 

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3 hours ago, thebill said:

so has anyone experienced thes issues an the vent pick up water? can it be modified to be pointed anther direction to avoid water getting in there..??

 

if not the pump, then water if not water, VAPOR LOCK, WHICH IS MOST LIELY FROM MY DECSRIPTION?

Is your vent the older style, or the newer flush ("surf" approved) style? 

If it's the older style, then loosen and rotate the vent backwards slightly.  Instead of sea foam, try putting some Heet into your tank for a couple runs to remove the water.  The sea foam probably isn't helping your cause.

28202.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Older style fuel vent:

th?id=OIP.2n1CIyGrFXJm8QGtIqEBQwHaHa%26p

 

New flush style fuel vent:

th?id=OIP.wsRS1db2wHGXrrIzACcrvgHaGg%26p

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16 hours ago, justgary said:

You say you are looking for advise; @BlindSquirrel gave it to you.  A fuel pressure check would rule out fuel pump and regulator problems.   A decent fuel pressure gauge would also allow you to vent some fuel into a jar while it is happening so you can see if water is present in the fuel rail.

Yes, your fuel vent can pick up water if you allow water to hit it.  I would fix the thing causing the spray rather than cobble up the vent.

Finally, SHOUTING IS NEVER NEEDED on this forum.  That alone can run off all of the help, leaving you without any answers at all.

bold lettering is not shouting , its emphasizing main points , if i were shouting it would have controversial language and punctuation that would be factual proof it meant i was shouting.. >>>>!!!!!!!! that typically means shoulting :) ((((shout))) or < :)

 

bold is always been used in normal context in pointing out the main points you want [people to see right away. Only a super sensitive person would see bold lettering as shouting the way i wrote it....

Link to post
14 hours ago, formulaben said:

Is your vent the older style, or the newer flush ("surf" approved) style? 

If it's the older style, then loosen and rotate the vent backwards slightly.  Instead of sea foam, try putting some Heet into your tank for a couple runs to remove the water.  The sea foam probably isn't helping your cause.

28202.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Older style fuel vent:

th?id=OIP.2n1CIyGrFXJm8QGtIqEBQwHaHa%26p

 

New flush style fuel vent:

th?id=OIP.wsRS1db2wHGXrrIzACcrvgHaGg%26p

thanks man!! good info HEET is on my list and yes i figured id tur the old style like that but maybe ill buy that newer style..i guess the manufacturers call them surf style for this reason..

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16 hours ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Knock yourself out and change the fuel pump. :dontknow: Better yet, with that logic, your steering cable will eventually need replaced.. may as well change it while you're at it. Until you find the real reason behind your issue, replacing parts will not yield different results unless you get lucky. I'm pretty sure engines don't run well with water in the gas. Starting there seems easier than replacing parts. 

 

cable already changed as it was very stiff a few years ago but thanks..im an HVAC TECH ie contractor and diagnosing and installing heating and AC equipment is much the same, sometimes you cant find and issue until it fully shows itself while you are there..sometimes a hard reset and it runs fine for long time then acts up at random times..

 

i understand not being parts changer is best but also understand if an issue is so random and intermittent even bringing it to mechanic when its not acting up would also be wasted time and money if they cant get it to ,,trying not lose water time and get this resolved..

 

new parts on an 04 not necessarily a bad thing is all i was pointing out..

 

I appreciate the info though as always around here...

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16 hours ago, justgary said:

You say you are looking for advise; @BlindSquirrel gave it to you.  A fuel pressure check would rule out fuel pump and regulator problems.   A decent fuel pressure gauge would also allow you to vent some fuel into a jar while it is happening so you can see if water is present in the fuel rail.

Yes, your fuel vent can pick up water if you allow water to hit it.  I would fix the thing causing the spray rather than cobble up the vent.

Finally, SHOUTING IS NEVER NEEDED on this forum.  That alone can run off all of the help, leaving you without any answers at all.

I pulled out over 4 gallons yesterday 1 gallon at time and not sure how far i was in the tank but so far not seeing signs of water...how long hose would it take to hit bottom of tank where water might hide? i put on one of those rattle traps what like 2ft of hose plus smaller on inside that so had to be 3ft plus from the starboard gas cap area..seems deep..

 

again putting a pressure gauges on in the drive way on fake a lake wouldn't accomplish much if it doesnt act up while in the driveway.. or does this pressure gauge stay on inline all day on the lake, is it in line ? nothing can truly simulate an random intermittent issue unless you are using it in the environment its acting up..

 

that was my point..im asking for as much possible issues to look for before this weekend and in between work , its tough..

Link to post
14 hours ago, formulaben said:

Is your vent the older style, or the newer flush ("surf" approved) style? 

If it's the older style, then loosen and rotate the vent backwards slightly.  Instead of sea foam, try putting some Heet into your tank for a couple runs to remove the water.  The sea foam probably isn't helping your cause.

28202.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Older style fuel vent:

th?id=OIP.2n1CIyGrFXJm8QGtIqEBQwHaHa%26p

 

New flush style fuel vent:

th?id=OIP.wsRS1db2wHGXrrIzACcrvgHaGg%26p

do any of you know which gas vent goes on my boat is it straight or the 90 degree type?

Link to post
1 hour ago, thebill said:

bold lettering is not shouting , its emphasizing main points , if i were shouting it would have controversial language and punctuation that would be factual proof it meant i was shouting.. >>>>!!!!!!!! that typically means shoulting :) ((((shout))) or < :)

 

bold is always been used in normal context in pointing out the main points you want [people to see right away. Only a super sensitive person would see bold lettering as shouting the way i wrote it....

I don't really care to belabor the point, but you used UPPER CASE lettering, which is considered shouting.  Bold or italic or maybe bold italic is used for emphasis.  Some people simply use asterisks for *added inflection*.

Your fuel rail has a threaded Schrader valve to accept a fuel test gauge.  You can leave it in place as long as you would like.  Using the vent valve on the gauge will give you fuel directly from the rail, so it shows you the fuel that the engine is receiving at that moment.  When the engine acts up, check the fuel pressure.  If it is OK, hold the button down and vent a bunch of fuel into a jar so you can inspect it.  The engine will probably die when you are doing it due to low pressure, but that is OK.  If the fuel pressure is not OK, you know you have a delivery problem.

Since you have a 2004 Monsoon, you may want to look around and find a gauge with a 90* fitting if you can find one (they seem very rare).  The edge of the plenum cover on a 2004 sits directly above the test port, so you either need a 90* fitting or you have to remove the plenum cover and cut out a notch in the flange (I suppose you could do it with the plenum cover on, but it is pretty easy to remove).  You might get away with a 90 brass fitting on your gauge, but I don't know if it will fit.  I find it absurd that it was designed this way, but it is what it is.  Perhaps someone has already cut yours for you.

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4 hours ago, justgary said:

I don't really care to belabor the point, but you used UPPER CASE lettering, which is considered shouting.  Bold or italic or maybe bold italic is used for emphasis.  Some people simply use asterisks for *added inflection*.

Your fuel rail has a threaded Schrader valve to accept a fuel test gauge.  You can leave it in place as long as you would like.  Using the vent valve on the gauge will give you fuel directly from the rail, so it shows you the fuel that the engine is receiving at that moment.  When the engine acts up, check the fuel pressure.  If it is OK, hold the button down and vent a bunch of fuel into a jar so you can inspect it.  The engine will probably die when you are doing it due to low pressure, but that is OK.  If the fuel pressure is not OK, you know you have a delivery problem.

Since you have a 2004 Monsoon, you may want to look around and find a gauge with a 90* fitting if you can find one (they seem very rare).  The edge of the plenum cover on a 2004 sits directly above the test port, so you either need a 90* fitting or you have to remove the plenum cover and cut out a notch in the flange (I suppose you could do it with the plenum cover on, but it is pretty easy to remove).  You might get away with a 90 brass fitting on your gauge, but I don't know if it will fit.  I find it absurd that it was designed this way, but it is what it is.  Perhaps someone has already cut yours for you.

good info , thanks ill give it a look never had to take off that cover yet..auto parts have this gauge, I'm assuming..

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2 minutes ago, thebill said:

good info , thanks ill give it a look never had to take off that cover yet..auto parts have this gauge, I'm assuming..

Most any auto parts store has them, and many will rent one to you.  If you are buying one, you might make sure to get one that will read at least 60 PSI in case you upgrade to a newer motor that has a 4 Bar fuel system.

That plenum cover is going to frustrate you if it isn't already cut.  Please post a photo of your solution.

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7 hours ago, thebill said:

do any of you know which gas vent goes on my boat is it straight or the 90 degree type?

I'm pretty sure my old one was a 90 degree, as these gunnels are fairly narrow.  But either way I am certain that the newer style I installed was 90 degrees.  I installed the barb upwards onto an extra section of non-collapsible hose, and made a small loop as high as possible so that any water coming into the vent (in small-ish quantities) would have to go UP first, and then would likely drain back down...if it does somehow make it up and over, it would hopefully stay in the loop trap and later evaporate. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/22/2021 at 3:38 PM, formulaben said:

I'm pretty sure my old one was a 90 degree, as these gunnels are fairly narrow.  But either way I am certain that the newer style I installed was 90 degrees.  I installed the barb upwards onto an extra section of non-collapsible hose, and made a small loop as high as possible so that any water coming into the vent (in small-ish quantities) would have to go UP first, and then would likely drain back down...if it does somehow make it up and over, it would hopefully stay in the loop trap and later evaporate. 

well it turned out it was straight and 3/4 inch couldn't find a flush mount that small..instead i bought the 90 degree flush munt that required a 1 3/8 hole so i drilled the old hole larger..looks great.

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so far this is what ive done,

 

added HEET, 

 

installed new larger vent,

well it turned out it was straight and 3/4 inch couldn't find a flush mount that small. Instead i bought the 90 degree flush munt that required a 1 3/8 hole so i drilled the old hole larger..looks great.

 

bought a kit to pressure test fuel rail but couldn't get it on as the manifold was in the way but eventually got to it and slowly used a rotary bit on high speed drill, one that is rounded has spikes on it and got enough material removed i now have the gauges on it to leave there..I noticed in the driveway on fake a lake its around 70-80 PSI depending on if im revving. seems to sit around 78 at idle..not sure whats normal.

 

also removed 5 gallons of gas 1 gallon at time and looker do alter and although i dint see separation after i refilled, added heat, and went out last Sunday the issue didnt repeat but we didnt surf wakeboarded all day on butter..:)

 

so not sure issue will return but i now and ready to check the pressure and take sample with the little hose comes off the gauge see if gas comes out and if it has water in it..

 

can we post ie upload pictures here? doesnt seem like it allows that has to be third party URL post??

 

 

 

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On 6/22/2021 at 1:41 PM, justgary said:

Most any auto parts store has them, and many will rent one to you.  If you are buying one, you might make sure to get one that will read at least 60 PSI in case you upgrade to a newer motor that has a 4 Bar fuel system.

That plenum cover is going to frustrate you if it isn't already cut.  Please post a photo of your solution.

dont think we can post pictures here unless its on third party site with url?

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3 minutes ago, thebill said:

i bought the 90 degree flush munt that required a 1 3/8 hole so i drilled the old hole larger..looks great.

Oopsie, yeah I forgot to mention that it requires a bigger hole.  I grabbed the ol' Dremel tool and made a great fit.  Definitely makes the boat look newer and now you don't catch the vent with your calf if you're hanging off the side of the boat.

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3 minutes ago, formulaben said:

Oopsie, yeah I forgot to mention that it requires a bigger hole.  I grabbed the ol' Dremel tool and made a great fit.  Definitely makes the boat look newer and now you don't catch the vent with your calf if you're hanging off the side of the boat.

used a 1 3/8 hole saw was quick and easy

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15 minutes ago, formulaben said:

Oopsie, yeah I forgot to mention that it requires a bigger hole.  I grabbed the ol' Dremel tool and made a great fit.  Definitely makes the boat look newer and now you don't catch the vent with your calf if you're hanging off the side of the boat.

not sure you can open this on my Gdrive but hers pics of recent boat projects..has the new vent in it

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13FV4QscrqkGzCMIPUiA6SofhY6etzW7h

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1 minute ago, thebill said:

not sure you can open this on my Gdrive but hers pics of recent boat projects..has the new vent in it

It says I need access.

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8 minutes ago, thebill said:

can we post ie upload pictures here? doesnt seem like it allows that has to be third party URL post??

Yep, really easy with imgbb.com or other free hosting sites.  Somewhere on here I posted a link to a youtube video on how to do it.

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