This may generate some interest!

[BlastRlxi]

This does create another serious question.

When using the COF (cylinders owned factor) to determine male worthiness, will there be a formula to extrapolate the less cylinder to more manliness features of the deisel engine?

Diesel engines should be multiplied by a factor of 2......Twice the torque and twice the price.

[Daman]

Daman - Interesting post!! Lots of good material. However, if I may correct one small fact: ".... Also it takes more oil to produce diesel than gasoline". If you are referring to the refining process of making gasoline and diesel, thats not true. It takes the same amount of crude oil to make a gallon of gasoline vs a gallon of diesel.

Since the current market for diesel is above gasoline, that is often given as the explanation. The reason it's currently higher is more simple: supply and demand. I would be happy to post several pages on cost accounting in the refining and oil and gas industry, but trust me: cost of refining has only modest impact vs cost at the pump.

I understand this model, but most of my customers don't like it. They rather see the models I have posted below, which show more oil going into the processing of diesel than gasoline. These are facts that were pulled off of the EIA.

Gasoline

Diesel

This is the information I have. This shows that more oil is going into Diesel....

[SacRiverRat]

Ah- no, that chart shows a greater % of cost per gal going into oil vs marketing, refining, & taxes for diesel... Doesn't show the actual cost of oil in each gal of fuel

Edited December 15, 2006 by SacRiverRat

[Big Dubya]

I was under the impression that Diesel is JP-4

and that Jet Fuel is JP-1

and that it was in a different spectrum of products (from crude) than gasoline...

that would mean you don't sacrifice one for the other.

but i'm no chemical engineer

[Daman]

Ah- no, that chart shows a greater % of cost per gal going into oil vs marketing, refining, & taxes for diesel... Doesn't show the actual cost of oil in each gal of fuel

Here it is.......

2005

2.87 per gallon avg.

[NvBoarder]

Neat!

Daman - You really think diesel is going to be the future in “recreational” boats?

The emissions they emit are much worse than that of a combustion engine….

I think of diesel on a much larger scale than just recreational use, the technology of combustible engines has put gasoline technology on the back burner.

True. Many manufacturers like Honda are working on "clean diesel" cars for there 2010 line ups. Diesels in Germany represent about 50% of the market. Diesels can give us better mileage and more power.... like my Duramax does

What burns me is, last night I did another search for Bio Diesel in my area (the liberal green SF Bay Area), and found nothing within 30 miles

I thank we have a place here that sales Bio diesel 80/20 I believe. But it was always more money and you can't just pay at the pump. Might be time to check into it.

[NvBoarder]

yea the downfall, their is only one type of diesel to choose from at the pump. You pay what it is period. In the last two years I have not seen diesel cheaper then unleaded usually by 30 cents or more. I own a diesel and drive it everyday. Don't get me wrong I love it but the more things that use it the more its going to keep going up. End of Rant

Other than that very cool to see

But what is the cost of the dyed diesel at these days??

Technically speaking you are not using the diesel for highway use

Well the dyed diesel is much, much cheaper , just don't get pulled over by a piece officer with a dipsticking device!

[NorCaliBu]

...just don't get pulled over by a piece officer with a dipsticking device!

...piece of what?

[stewart]

yea the downfall, their is only one type of diesel to choose from at the pump. You pay what it is period. In the last two years I have not seen diesel cheaper then unleaded usually by 30 cents or more. I own a diesel and drive it everyday. Don't get me wrong I love it but the more things that use it the more its going to keep going up. End of Rant

Other than that very cool to see

But what is the cost of the dyed diesel at these days??

Technically speaking you are not using the diesel for highway use

Well the dyed diesel is much, much cheaper , just don't get pulled over by a piece officer with a dipsticking device!

And remember to pay cash at the pump

[vec]

Malibu was going to show a Diesel engine at the Düsseldorf (Thats in Germany for you americans ) boatshow now in January.

They got the engine mounted in a boat but couldn´t get the electronics to work satisfactory, so the premiere has been postponed.

They won´t release it until it works 100%, but it will be an option sometime during 07.

[Chaabo]

Malibu was going to show a Diesel engine at the Düsseldorf (Thats in Germany for you americans ) boatshow now in January.

They got the engine mounted in a boat but couldn´t get the electronics to work satisfactory, so the premiere has been postponed.

They won´t release it until it works 100%, but it will be an option sometime during 07.

Whow that would definitely have been a blast!

Malibu as the first company to release a diesel powered tow boat.

Especially with the gas-prices over here in Europe it would be of the highest interest!

(1 Gallon regular is currently about 6.40 $!)

BTW "vec" where did you get that inside info and how reliable is it?

Haven't heard anything like that out of my dealer's mouth.

Edited December 22, 2006 by Chaabo

[vec]

BTW "vec" where did you get that inside info and how reliable is it?

Haven't heard anything like that out of my dealer's mouth.

Its from a dealer and I specifically asked if this was secret in any way, and he said that it wasn´t.

Id say that this is very reliable and it is a fact that there will be a diesel option sometime next year from malibu if all goes according to plan.

[Brad B]

Shouldn't be that much of a stretch - there are several motor yachts with v-drives sporting deisels in our marina.

BTW I'd love to surf behind a couple of the 40 and 50 footers.

[lakewaterjunky]

What would really be exciting, is to drop a diesel in the bu, use biodiesel to get er warmed up then hit the switch to burn recycled/filtered cooking oil like this greasecar

[gonorth]

It costs $2000 if you get caught with red diesel in your car or pickup. $1000 to the state and $1000 to the feds. Don't ask me how I know that.

Red in Minnesota is 33 cents cheaper per gallon for the same grade of diesel.

I tried to find a way to get the gas tax from the state for the gas I used in the Bou. No way it was gonna happen. You don't get much use out of that road tax money on the lake but the state doesn't care. So, I bet they will find a way to get tax out of you for diesel used in your boat too. Farmers don't have to pay tax on gas, why should boat owners?

Diesel cost, I think some of the increase is due to the new sulfur rules. It went up about 25 cents when we went to low sulfur. The ultra-low now seems to be adding another 20-25 cents. I don't know if they are using higher cost crude (low sulphur) to start with or if it costs more to refine more sulfur out of it. Primier diesel now runs a good 40 cents more than 87 octane gas here.

[uk_exile]

I don't know if it applies to marine diesels but most diesel cars, 4wd's, trucks etc need oil changes twice as frequently as the petrol equivs. Imagine changing your bu oil every 25hrs !

[D-GOOSE]

daman, what do you do to have all this great info? What have you heard about EPA doing (requiring) snap tests on off road and marine eng?

[OLDGUY]

I don't know if it applies to marine diesels but most diesel cars, 4wd's, trucks etc need oil changes twice as frequently as the petrol equivs. Imagine changing your bu oil every 25hrs !

I have a diesel truck and the recommended oil change is twice as long as a gas engine.

[Daman]

daman, what do you do to have all this great info? What have you heard about EPA doing (requiring) snap tests on off road and marine eng?

I am a field tech for a John Deere/Hitachi dealer and have been for too many years, even as young as I am. Any how "snap test" in Cal have NOT been implemented YET, but there has been tons of debate over it. Cal (certain counties) wants to implement their own emission reduction program which would basically try and rid any gross poluters (they say). The real problem has arisen from countless scrapers (wont say the manu) pouring black smoke out the stacks when loaded up. This raised many eyebrows and began to cause people who don't want staring at us to start. So I have attached this website and particular page for you, and you can see that it is not all that bad. Unless you want to try and run a 1978 tractor in a certain county that falls under CA regulations. You will be allowed to run that machine if it has been retrofitted with PM regulators or a Tier II or better engine. That puts the guy with the 1978 tractor out, because his tractor is probably not worth the cost of the new engine. Go to page 24-25 this will explain a lot of what the ARB is wanting to do. Remember its the ARB so it probably will go to law.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordiesel/docu...e_post_12-4.pdf

Marine applications fall under a different regulation. The newest thing right now is if you burn a certain amount of fuel every year as a commerical vessil then you can become eligible for free (thats right free) Tier II engine. I have done 4 different commerical boats so far, and the owners/captains are very happy! Some of them are putting 3 times the amount of hours on one tank from what they did before the replacement. That is HUGE for them, that means that if it takes $300 to fill their tank they will save $600 dollars between tank refills.

Go to http://www.arb.ca.gov and this site will answer all your questions that your heart may ever desire.

Good Luck.

I have weeded through it many times and still have an headache, customers are up my a** to find out what is going to happen to them. I almost want to say, "get a lawyer, you may need one."

[gonorth]

I don't know why anyone would do oil chages more frequently. I have a VW Beetle with diesel it generally goes 10,000 between changes. I also have a Dodge truck with a Cummins diesel and usually let that one go about 6,000 on Rotella-T oil. I use Rotella-T in the bou too now.

They do take more oil, and you do spend more on fuel filters, especially in cold climates you want to change the fuel filter every fall. With VW's you will also spend some extra money on routine maintenance timeing belt changes. But, you don't spend much on spark plugs.

[uk_exile]

Oil changes must vary a lot. Perhaps your typical large US built engine are lazier, less stressed and need changes less often.

All the petrol cars I owned (japanese, 4 cylinder 1.3L through to 2.0L engines, 1970-1998 build) have oil changes every 10000km (6000 miles). The diesel 4WD trucks I've had (4 cylinder, 2.2L - 3.0L turbo 1982 - 1994) have required oil changes every 5000km (3000miles) i.e. twice as frequent

[gonorth]

Hmm, general rule of thumb here is 3,000 miles on gas engines but lots of people stretch that to 5,000 using regular oil.

One reason I can go 10,000 on my VW Diesel is that I use Mobile Delvac-I synthetic oil. I do that because it is a pain to get at the drain plug on that vehicle unless you do some modifications to the drain or the belly-pan to get easier access. I have heard you can pump it out too but you never get it all that way. The synthetic oil about doubles your change interval and on this vehicle it is worth the extra sybtheric oil expense to get more miles between changes.

I don't use synthetic on the truck because it takes 12 quarts and is pretty easy to access the drain plug and the filter. Hence the change at about 5-6,000.

Edited December 27, 2006 by GONORTH

[skicrave]

/Hijack

10,000 miles is the recommended interval on VW diesels, regardless of which type of synthetic you use (it must be CG-4 rated though). Sucking oil out of the filter resevoir is actually the only way to get all of the oil out, simply pulling the drain plug will leave about .5 Qt in the system.

/Hijack Off

[kwold]

Ahhh yes. The Diesel debate! WooHoo!

I own an 06, 5.9 Cummins in my Dodge. Currently with 3400 miles on the clock I am getting about 14-15MPG in town and 16-19 on the Highway. It will take about 10K miles before my mpg settles due to I am doing a light duty break in (cause I am commuting in it). If I towed my Boat around all day, I could probably get the motor broken in within 5K miles or so.

I weighed the cost of a CTD VS a Hemi and for me the CTD won out. I am not going to try and justify my purchase decision as if it was based of some numbers proving Diesel is better (cost wise,etc) in the long run. Rather, I like having a motor that is easily modified for an extra 60 to 120 RWHP and can tow my 21 Xti like its not even back there. To me, buying the CTD was like buying a Vette.

I was thinking about waiting for the newer 07 2500s that will come with cummins new 6.7 Diesel. But after researching, it turns out the larger displacement is there to make up for all the new smog gear that is going to be added. I like the raw HP and TQ you get from bumping the displacement from 5.9 to 6.7 is a tiny 20-30 HP and 40-50 Tq. I am all in favor of lower emssion diesels, but I really don't want the first model year of the 6.7. I can still remember the poop that came out during the early 80's when auto manufacturers were still trying to figure this emissions thing out. Yikes!

Another thing I would like to point out is how far diesels have come. IF you think Diesels are still these nasty smelling, black smoke belching vehicles that struggle to get up hills, you really need to get your head out of the 1980-90s . My 5.9 CTD can still be heard at idle (clunk clunk clunk) but it is far quieter than any previous generation. Also, my truck smokes LESS than my 05 Tahoe (GAS) on cold mornings. Without serious mods, I cannot get my 06 CTD to put off any black smoke. As far as being gutless, well all I can say is mess with a newer diesel truck at a stop light at your own risk .

If you ever pop over to Europe, do yourself a favor and rent a nice Diesel Pugeot or the like. You will be amased at how quiet and powerful the TDIs are and your fuel mileage per KM will be awesome.

Would I get a Malibu with a diesel? That complete depends on the cost of the engine as an option.

Edited December 27, 2006 by kwold

[kwold]

I don't know if it applies to marine diesels but most diesel cars, 4wd's, trucks etc need oil changes twice as frequently as the petrol equivs. Imagine changing your bu oil every 25hrs !

If you are trying to say that Diesel vehicles need their oil changed twice as often as Gasoline vehicles, you are incorrect.

With my 2500 CTD, my oil change interval is 7500 for extreme duty and 15000 for normal duty. The Hemi 2500 is 5000 and 7500. I should note though that my 5.9 CTD takes 12 quarts of oil (3 gallons) with an oil/filter change.