This may generate some interest!

[Trentster]

Enough said!

Enjoy!

Trentster

Edited December 15, 2006 by Trentster

[stewart]

Diesel in a 247, that will be interesting

[Bobby Light]

What? Details please, any specs on the engine??

[Trentster]

I only got a brief sentence out of the employees: VLX, overseas order, lots of money involved, may see it in the future.

[Daman]

Tier 4 engine will be when we see the introduction of the no spark engine. PPM levels will have dropped so low that the emission on a gasoline engine will be worse than higher PPM levels of a whistling clanker. We can't have our little fishies getting sick from soot. Tier 4 emission engines will be hard to beat, when it comes to PPM and their effeciency. Say by by to gasoline.

[88Skier]

So just what is a steyr marine deisel. German inline 6 w/256 hp?

[Ronnie]

Looks like a 6 Cylinder, Turbocharged Intercooled

Marine Diesel Engine 247 HP, 4500 RPM

[lake texoma]

but enough torque to move a mountain!!!! I know what just came up on my wish list for santa.

[chadwick02]

Neat!

Daman - You really think diesel is going to be the future in “recreational” boats?

The emissions they emit are much worse than that of a combustion engine….

[Steck]

but use much less of it...sure would suck for surfing

[Bobby Light]

But with the Ultra Low Sulfur diesel emmisions standard coming out from EPA, next year I think, the diesels will burn as clean or cleaner than gas. I believe it's going from 1,500 ppm to 15ppm. All the refineries are already revamping their processes to accomodate the new standard.

[NvBoarder]

yea the downfall, their is only one type of diesel to choose from at the pump. You pay what it is period. In the last two years I have not seen diesel cheaper then unleaded usually by 30 cents or more. I own a diesel and drive it everyday. Don't get me wrong I love it but the more things that use it the more its going to keep going up. End of Rant

Other than that very cool to see

[Polock]

yea the downfall, their is only one type of diesel to choose from at the pump. You pay what it is period. In the last two years I have not seen diesel cheaper then unleaded usually by 30 cents or more. I own a diesel and drive it everyday. Don't get me wrong I love it but the more things that use it the more its going to keep going up. End of Rant

Other than that very cool to see

But what is the cost of the dyed diesel at these days??

Technically speaking you are not using the diesel for highway use

[chadwick02]

But with the Ultra Low Sulfur diesel emmisions standard coming out from EPA, next year I think, the diesels will burn as clean or cleaner than gas. I believe it's going from 1,500 ppm to 15ppm. All the refineries are already revamping their processes to accomodate the new standard.

I forgot all about that. We just ordered a new freightliner flatbed at work a few months ago in order to sneak in under the old emissions. The new trucks are going to be 15-20K more because of the new emissions requirement!!!!

They will be much cleaner

[chadwick02]

yea the downfall, their is only one type of diesel to choose from at the pump. You pay what it is period. In the last two years I have not seen diesel cheaper then unleaded usually by 30 cents or more. I own a diesel and drive it everyday. Don't get me wrong I love it but the more things that use it the more its going to keep going up. End of Rant

Other than that very cool to see

But what is the cost of the dyed diesel at these days??

Technically speaking you are not using the diesel for highway use

What ever the cost of home heating fuel is...

[Daman]

Neat!

Daman - You really think diesel is going to be the future in “recreational” boats?

The emissions they emit are much worse than that of a combustion engine….

I think of diesel on a much larger scale than just recreational use, the technology of combustible engines has put gasoline technology on the back burner. Gasoline is one of the worst fuels we can be using (other than coal), we as the consumer don't see it's damage when it leaves our exhaust pipes. The virtually clear gasoline exhaust reaks havoc on our upper atmosphere. Who cares right, we only see it on stagnate days where it lingers above our highways and skyscrapers or gets stuck in valleys, and that is only part of its pollution.

Now don't get me wrong, diesel is not the most efficient fuel when it comes to PPM (Part Per Million), for now. Low sulfur fuel is not necessarily the answer either, as it cases many premature mechanical failures as it has very low lubricity, i.e, low centane levels. Thus, why we have diesel additives which add sulfur and cetane, with other tasty little chemicals. So we just raised our PPM again, but extended the life of injectors, injection pumps (old style) and basically pretty much the entire fuel system. With HPCR (High Pressure Common Rail) becoming so popular we are able inject fuel with great accuracy and efficiency. The addition of EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) systems are helping use more exhaust in the intake and help with PPM also. If your bored out of your mind yet, it continues. If you are savvy with newer gasoline engines then this all sounds familiar to you, except we use no spark plugs! But that will soon be untrue, as the spark plug will eventually be introduced into the diesel engine as the diesel loses more and more sulfur and cetane.

Ohh, did I mention variable vained turbos? Yeah thats a hole nother conversation, but basically we are able to increase or decrease boost by moving vains to push more air or less air, depending on what is necessary. How about twin turbos that inject air into the same intake manifold. One for low rpm boost and one for high rpm boost.

Todays diesel is not the best for low atmosphere pollution (ground water), soot is heavier than NoX so it falls to the ground. Just go to Europe and you will smell it, as most of there vehicles are Diesel. I am partially glad that we don't have more diesel now, but as the technology is advancing the less they will smell. VW got clearance to reintroduce it Touraeg with the TDI, and it is going to continue. Can you say diesel hybrid.... Also it takes more oil to produce diesel than gasoline, but you get better mileage on diesel. Diesel cost more. So they pretty much equal out for now. Are you all confused yet?

All you diesel pushers love um, because all that torque for towing power and the much better mileage (unless you got that 6 gun, set at 150 extra HP). Imagine that torque used in a hybrid.

On another note California in its infanant wisdom decided they want to try begin to keep some off-road diesel engines from being able to be operated in certain counties or the whole state. I have had customers all over me, because the state sent out letters stating they are researching this and might try and enforce it. So customers are scared they are going to have to replace their older equipment engines with Tier II or Tier III engines.. ARGUE!!!!!!!

Sorry. I have many opinions and facts on the diesel subject. So if you want more blabber just ask.

Here is some interesting information, that we give to customers.

**Paper copies of solutions may not be the most current solutions**

Problem or Situation: Tier 3 engines and EGR usage questions

Solution: Tier 3 Engine Durability

John Deere engines have always undergone extensive lab and field tests to ensure durability and uptime for our customers. The Cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation/Variable Geometry Turbocharger system is no exception.

EGR is a proven technology that is used to control NOx emissions. Off-road users are Deere and Isuzu.

· All major on-highway diesel engine manufactures will use EGR in 2007.

· Several major on-highway diesel manufactures have been using EGR successfully since 2002.

· Over 30 billion miles on-highway experience.

· Plus millions of gasoline and diesel passenger cars use EGR.

John Deere Tier 3 Engine Durability Test Findings

Valve and seat wear reduction

Tier 3 engines have more robust material and geometry in the valves and seats.

Durability testing of the EGR has shown a measurable reduction in intake valve and seat wear since the carbon particles provide lubrication.

Piston ring and liner wear reduction

Tier 3 engines have selected upgrades for the ring and liner materials, specifically designed for an EGR environment.

Field and lab testing has confirmed that the Tier 3 engines have reduced ring & liner wear over the Tier 2 engines. This is proven by reduced iron accumulation in the oil between drain intervals, and confirmed with high hour end-of-test part inspections.

Oil consumption lower than Tier 2

High hour lab and field testing has demonstrated that the material and combustion strategies selected have led to a durable power cylinder design.

Lab and field testing has demonstrated that the Tier 3 engines have lower levels of oil consumption than the Tier 2 engines they replace.

Bearing Wear

Bearing materials have been upgraded to handle increased loading due to power growth. Improved bearing life has been demonstrated in lab and field durability test. End of test inspection and oil analysis support this.

Soot contamination in the engine oil reduced

The combustion systems on the Tier 3 engines have been optimized to reduce soot contamination in the engine oil.

Comparison of oil soot contamination data between Tier 2 and Tier 3 with EGR show that the Tier 3 certified engines consistently generates lower soot levels in the oil than the Tier 2 engines.

Tier 2 and 3 oil change intervals are the same.

Myths vs Facts

Myth #1 EGR engines circulate “dirty air” into the intake system. Engine life reduction will result

FACT John Deere uses cooled exhaust gas recirculation to lower NOx emissions

· Diesel engine power cylinders deal with much more significant amounts of exhaust by-products during every power stroke and exhaust stroke. They are already designed to survive in this environment. Exhaust gas is not at all detrimental to power cylinder life.

· ALL diesel engine intake ports, valves, and seats are exposed to exhaust gas. ALL diesel engines have some amount of valve overlap between intake valve opening and exhaust valve closing. In part load conditions, when intake manifold pressure is lower than exhaust manifold pressure, some exhaust gas can enter the intake port. Diesel engines have experienced this since their inception.

· Exhaust gas has lubrication characteristics that are actually beneficial to intake valve and seat wear.

Myth #2 Engine Power will be lower with Cooled-EGR

FACT John Deere has maintained or increased power with every PowerTech Plus™ platform

Myth #3 Engines with Cooled-EGR run hotter

FACT John Deere Construction and Forestry machines have traditionally had excellent cooling capacity. This will not change for Tier 3. Exhaust gas will need to be cooled, but the cooling system will be improved to accommodate it. As a result, our Tier 3 engines will run cool as or cooler than comparable Tier 2 models.

Myth #4 Fuel consumption will be worse with Cooled-EGR because of higher fan loads

FACT For Tier 3 excavators with a new variable-speed hydraulic fan system, fan power is lower than previous models under most operating conditions. This adds to the fuel savings. Other machines that carry over a variable-speed hydraulic fan from Tier 2 to Tier 3 will have other cooling system changes in place that allow the machine to maintain Tier 2 fan loads.

Myth #5 Cooled-EGR requires low sulfur on-highway diesel fuel

FACT Diesel fuel recommendations are unchanged. On-highway fuel is NOT required.

· All Deere engines are designed to run on standard worldwide off-road fuels with up to 5000 PPM sulfur, the maximum allowed in most of the world

Myth #6 Engines with Cooled-EGR require special oils

FACT All major engine manufacturers recommend the new API CI-4 Plus oil specification for Tier 3

· All major oil suppliers provide API CI-4 oils

· All grades of John Deere Plus-50™ oil already exceed the API CI-4 standard

· Most grades of Torq-Gard™ Supreme are no longer recommended…except 10w-30 is still recommended

[Chaabo]

Now that was a long post!

I just wanted to add that Steyr is Austrian actually.

[relentless]

i stopped about half way but it sounds great. I think

[Chaabo]

It's probably the 6 cylinder 250PS (253.5HP):

Additional Information can be found here:

http://steyr-motors.com/products/products.htm

[BlastRlxi]

I would say there will definitely be some diesel engine options in Malibu's lineup in the next few years. However, they will be in the larger boats mostly and will never completely replace the gas engines IMO.

[stewart]

Neat!

Daman - You really think diesel is going to be the future in “recreational” boats?

The emissions they emit are much worse than that of a combustion engine….

I think of diesel on a much larger scale than just recreational use, the technology of combustible engines has put gasoline technology on the back burner.

True. Many manufacturers like Honda are working on "clean diesel" cars for there 2010 line ups. Diesels in Germany represent about 50% of the market. Diesels can give us better mileage and more power.... like my Duramax does

What burns me is, last night I did another search for Bio Diesel in my area (the liberal green SF Bay Area), and found nothing within 30 miles

[Gordo]

Daman - Interesting post!! Lots of good material. However, if I may correct one small fact: ".... Also it takes more oil to produce diesel than gasoline". If you are referring to the refining process of making gasoline and diesel, thats not true. It takes the same amount of crude oil to make a gallon of gasoline vs a gallon of diesel.

Since the current market for diesel is above gasoline, that is often given as the explanation. The reason it's currently higher is more simple: supply and demand. I would be happy to post several pages on cost accounting in the refining and oil and gas industry, but trust me: cost of refining has only modest impact vs cost at the pump.

[Brad B]

This does create another serious question.

When using the COF (cylinders owned factor) to determine male worthiness, will there be a formula to extrapolate the less cylinder to more manliness features of the deisel engine?

[Cbrown]

MILLINGTON, Tenn. – Officials of Indmar Products Co., and Steyr Motors have signed a multi-year agreement that will add one of Steyr's most popular diesels to Indmar's engine line, Indmar reported in a recent release.

Chuck Rowe, president of Indmar, and Steyr Motors CEO Rudolf Mandorfer made the announcement jointly.

The agreement calls for Indmar to purchase, brand and sell Steyr's 250-hp, MO256H45 engine as the Indmar 256 Marine Diesel by Steyr. Indmar will warranty the engines and service them though its dealer network. Indmar will initially target the ski boat market, according to the release.

"The strategic alliance with Steyr assures our customers of the same quality and service they expect from Indmar gasoline engines," Rowe said. "This new diesel will provide a viable alternative engine, especially for commercial operators and operators of other high-use vessels."

Steyr's Mandorfer said, "With its outstanding weight-to-horsepower ratio, the 256 engine is a perfect choice for Indmar's ski boat and wake boat customers. This is the beginning of an excellent, long-term relationship between our two companies."

This is a press release from october.

[Guest J-Ro]

Did anyone notice the fuel consumption graph? Wow, if propped correctly, you will be using very little fuel will pulling a rider.