TV Question (23 or 25 LSV)

[Jbcain]

Interesting topic. Almost as volatile/toxic as it is on the RV pages. 

[CaptainMorgan]

I too have found this thread interesting/educational. 

Confirmed that for my situation (all summer on a lift, only to dealer for service), I should continue (a) limiting my Toyota Highlander to repositioning in the driveway, and (b) paying my dealer to retrieve/tow it with their 1-ton pickups - cost isn't much higher than renting an appropriate truck, and way cheaper than getting my own beast of a vehicle for a couple tows/year.

[malibu2004]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:35 AM, Alta said:

I am in the market for a 16 23 or 25 LSV.  My tow vehicle is a 2019 F150 King Ranch with the Ecoboost engine.  Never used it to tow before.  It seems more than sufficient to tow the 23 LSV but curious about if it is powerful enough for the 25 LSV.  Anybody with experience?

i would love to just upgrade to an F250 but then my truck would not fit in parking garage at work...

What's the door sticker say? Look at your max payload. Add passengers, tongue weight and all the gear in the back of the truck and you have your answer. My guess is you'll be fine. 

I have a 2021, GMC 3500 and I know for a fact that I'm over weight with my camper. Just like 90 percent of the SRW truck and campers. People always say if you wreck and your over weight your insurance company wont pay yet nobody can ever come up with an example. 

[malibu2004]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:55 PM, DFW said:

I agree @RyanB. Boat trailer tongue weights are less than RV tongue weights. The tongue weight for my 9000lb 25 LSV is 800lbs when full of gas and gear. I posit that 7000lbs behind a 1/2 ton is safe, but that changes at 8000lbs or 9000lbs and certainly 10,000lbs. Maybe 5000lb to 7000lb should be termed the “acceptable” range? 1/2 ton towing experience tells me that as trailer weight increases over 5000lbs the negative effect on tow vehicle performance is exponential as opposed to linear. As such I think it’s no accident that the big 3 “recommend/require” weight distribution for 1/2 tons at or over 5000lbs(Ford, Ram)/7000lbs(GM).

You need to weigh your tongue to know for sure.

My 2004 VLX has a tongue weight of 750 pounds, stock dual axle trailer, loaded for the day. I was shocked at the weight of it. 

[malibu2004]

On 9/15/2020 at 8:49 AM, guitarcrazy said:

I just bought a new GMC Sierra Denali with the 3.0 Duramax and I have been very happy.  I have no problem going 80 on the interstate, keeps speed on the hills, and the 10 speed doesn't hunt around a lot.  I get about 12 mpg towing my 23 LSV, and 28 empty at 75.  I get 22 in town going back and forth to work.  I previously had a Canyon with the 2.8 diesel, and it was a strong rig,  but the 3.0 Duramax is much more capable and has the same fuel economy.  

Please let me know if you come to Oregon so I can stay away from you. You should never tow at 80 towing a boat. 

[vaporbluebu]

I often use towcalculator.com for making sure I'm within weights for my travel trailer and after reading this thread thought I would plug in my boat info. However, when I went out and looked at my trailer I couldn't find a weights/info/serial number placard anywhere. The tongue has the coupler info stamped into it but nothing for the trailer. Any ideas where that would be on a 2020 Malibu trailer?

[DFW]

On 1/5/2022 at 10:13 AM, malibu2004 said:

You need to weigh your tongue to know for sure.

My 2004 VLX has a tongue weight of 750 pounds, stock dual axle trailer, loaded for the day. I was shocked at the weight of it. 

Here’s my tongue weight with roughly half a tank of fuel and some gear. I’ve seen the hitch indicate 800+ with a full tank and all our gear. 

[dlb]

1 hour ago, vaporbluebu said:

I often use towcalculator.com for making sure I'm within weights for my travel trailer and after reading this thread thought I would plug in my boat info. However, when I went out and looked at my trailer I couldn't find a weights/info/serial number placard anywhere. The tongue has the coupler info stamped into it but nothing for the trailer. Any ideas where that would be on a 2020 Malibu trailer?

It is on the back side of the cross member where the trailer rails are bent to start paralleling each other.

[malibu2004]

15 hours ago, DFW said:

Here’s my tongue weight with roughly half a tank of fuel and some gear. I’ve seen the hitch indicate 800+ with a full tank and all our gear. 

What's your door jam say? It should have a sticker that says the max you can carry. Don't read the book just look at the door jam. If you have a max tow my guess would be around 2200 pounds.

2200-800=1400, 3 passengers 500 pounds = 900, gear in the back of the truck 500 pounds, you have 400 to play with. That truck is more than capable to haul your boat and carry 3/4 passenger's.

That being said it's a Ford so make sure you have a good tow plan. 

[BlindSquirrel]

1 hour ago, malibu2004 said:

That being said it's a Ford so make sure you have a good tow plan. 

Lol... Shots fired! 

[DFW]

11 hours ago, malibu2004 said:

What's your door jam say? It should have a sticker that says the max you can carry. Don't read the book just look at the door jam. If you have a max tow my guess would be around 2200 pounds.

2200-800=1400, 3 passengers 500 pounds = 900, gear in the back of the truck 500 pounds, you have 400 to play with. That truck is more than capable to haul your boat and carry 3/4 passenger's.

That being said it's a Ford so make sure you have a good tow plan.  
 

@malibu2004 I think you may be intending to respond to @RCorsa. He has the F-150 hybrid on order to pull his new M240.

I’m pulling my 25 LSV with a Ram 2500 Cummins, no capacity concerns with this setup. FWIW the cargo capacity (door sticker) on this Ram is 2086lbs, on my last F-150, a 2019 EcoBoost w/max tow, the cargo capacity was 1577lbs.

[malibu2004]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:52 PM, DFW said:

@malibu2004 I think you may be intending to respond to @RCorsa. He has the F-150 hybrid on order to pull his new M240.

I’m pulling my 25 LSV with a Ram 2500 Cummins, no capacity concerns with this setup. FWIW the cargo capacity (door sticker) on this Ram is 2086lbs, on my last F-150, a 2019 EcoBoost w/max tow, the cargo capacity was 1577lbs.

You are correct. 

Here's a tow and cargo chart for Fords. Keep in mind this just for reference as the door jam is what you need to go by. The more loaded the truck the less weight you can carry and tow. All those toys you buy for the truck reduce the payload. 

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/21Towing_Ford_F150_Dec3.pdf

[bluenautical]

The manual on our 2017 Chevy Tahoe states clearly that WDH is not required below 7,000 pounds and GCVWR is 12,000 lbs. Conventional hitch setup tongue weight max is 600. So really the WDH requirement would only apply to the max tow package option. The regular Tahoe TWR is 6400 pounds.

[guitarcrazy]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:18 AM, malibu2004 said:

Please let me know if you come to Oregon so I can stay away from you. You should never tow at 80 towing a boat. 

Thanks for the unsolicited advice.  I'll let all the other rigs towing boats and 5th wheels passing me know you disapprove.  

[justgary]

Shoot, I drove from Florida to Arizona at 80 pulling a U-Haul behind a Highlander, all the while looking at the stickers on the fenders that reminded me, "Max Speed 55 MPH."

[RyanB]

We do several 1000 mile round trips per year with the boat. Most of the time we take my 3500 DRW, sometimes my Ex MAX. With the DRW, I always set cruise at 80. With the Ex, 70-75. 
 

Higher speeds make a big difference in those long runs. And I never feel unsafe at those speeds. 

[surfdude]

First of all Montana is different than a lot of states. The interstate is almost straight, where @guitarcrazyis talking about, except for the last 20 miles. Posted speed is 80 mph. Most people without trailers are going 85. Usually not much traffic. Proper trailer tire air pressure, right tow vehicle 80 is fine here. Don’t compare our area with congested curvy 55mph states.

[Surf4FamFun]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:47 AM, malibu2004 said:

You are correct. 

Here's a tow and cargo chart for Fords. Keep in mind this just for reference as the door jam is what you need to go by. The more loaded the truck the less weight you can carry and tow. All those toys you buy for the truck reduce the payload. 

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/21Towing_Ford_F150_Dec3.pdf

Looked at the link and found this in the notes.

"• Do not exceed trailer weight of 5,000 lbs. when towing with bumper only."

So is the "only" referring to a WDH?

[jjackkrash]

Just check the trailer-tire speed rating.  They used to commonly be rated for 55 mph max and the heat generated by 80 mph on those tires is asking for failure.   Most of the newer/better trailer tires are rated for either 68 or 75 MPH rating; some are 81 MPH and Goodyear Endurance with a D or E load rating is going to give you an 87 MPH speed rating.  80 mph on the 75 mph tires would probably not give me much heartburn; 68 MPH tires might give me a little pause especially on a hot day over long stretches of asphalt.  I look at speed ratings more as a "heat" rating as heat generated by speed is what is killing the tires when you go too fast.  

Edited January 28, 2022 by jjackkrash

[RyanB]

Endurance is a good tire. I wore out my last set due to mileage. New set went on the boat last summer. 

[Surf4FamFun]

Here is some interesting viewing on the topic.  Been doing research looking at trucks, just sharing. 

One thing from other reading on SAE J2807 as I understand the requirement for the WDH is driven by understeer that is introduced by the front axle getting lighter due to tongue weight.  So the WDH helps stability and breaking by keeping the nose from getting light and saves the rear axle by distributing weight to the front tow vehicle  axle and trailer axles.  

These off data for a decision rather than my personal experience of one.  If you are short on time watch the second one, they setup a truck and trailer with scales under each tire and show what you can't see.

 

Good towing weight explanation relative to vehicle specifications.

https://youtu.be/gIhRJe1O5eY

 

Lots of people use air bags, this shows how it levels the truck but does not address keeping the load distributed across all the axles.  It also shows how the WDH (Weight Distributing Hitch) works differently than air bags.  Includes showing actual axle weight in different setups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZu3...

 

This demonstrates how weight distribution impacts trailer sway.  Makes a really good case for WDH if towing something heavy by keeping the weight better distributed including more on the steering axel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mW_g...

 

Another trailer sway, goes into a lot more detail.

https://youtu.be/JeEEC5eVNCk

[Surf4FamFun]

21 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Just check the trailer-tire speed rating.  They used to commonly be rated for 55 mph max and the heat generated by 80 mph on those tires is asking for failure.   Most of the newer/better trailer tires are rated for either 65 or 75 MPH rating; some are 81 MPH and Goodyear Endurance with a D or E load rating is going to give you an 87 MPH speed rating.  80 mph on the 75 mph tires would probably not give me much heartburn; 65 MPH tires might give me a little pause especially on a hot day over long stretches of asphalt.  I look at speed ratings more as a "heat" rating as heat generated by speed is what is killing the tires when you go too fast.  

And a overloaded or under inflated tire will make a lot more "heat" in the sidewall than it can take due to flexing.

 

[jjackkrash]

7 minutes ago, Surf4FamFun said:

And a overloaded or under inflated tire will make a lot more "heat" in the sidewall than it can take due to flexing.

 

Load ratings assume (are based on) the maximum air-pressure fill rating for the tire, so I try and keep the air-pressure level of my trailer tires at maximum inflation.  I assume the speed ratings also assume maximum air-pressure fill level, but I'm not 100% sure on that.   

[Cole2001]

Most of the new boats with 18s aren’t coming with trailer tires anyways. Most are a high performance SUV tire with an xl rating. My last trailer had nitto 420s so speed ratings will be way higher than the trailer will hopefully ever reach. 
Not saying you should tow at high speeds because of this just that you can’t really go off tire max speed anymore. 

[Surf4FamFun]

1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

Load ratings assume (are based on) the maximum air-pressure fill rating for the tire, so I try and keep the air-pressure level of my trailer tires at maximum inflation.  I assume the speed ratings also assume maximum air-pressure fill level, but I'm not 100% sure on that.   

I am not sure but I do think you are right!