TV Question (23 or 25 LSV)

[Alta]

I am in the market for a 16 23 or 25 LSV.  My tow vehicle is a 2019 F150 King Ranch with the Ecoboost engine.  Never used it to tow before.  It seems more than sufficient to tow the 23 LSV but curious about if it is powerful enough for the 25 LSV.  Anybody with experience?

i would love to just upgrade to an F250 but then my truck would not fit in parking garage at work...

[statefan]

How often, how far and what kind of terrain will your regular towing trips be? I'd think your current truck could handle most situations with either boat just fine unless you are dealing with some sort of extreme towing condition. Of course a 3/4 ton truck would be a better option but you see plenty of people towing with half tons just fine.

Edited August 10, 2020 by statefan

[Alta]

Thanks - mainly in Texas from the Houston area to Austin area lakes (3-4 hour drives).  So while it gets hilly out there it isn’t too bad.  

Would also  probably take 1-2 longer trips each year to places like Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. to see something new.

[wedge88]

Do you have the 3.5L or 2.7L Eco?  I wouldn't hesitate to tow a 25LSV with a 3.5L Eco but would want higher rear ends, if possible.  Had a 2014 (3.73 and 3.5L Eco) for many years and still one of my favorite trucks to drive.  Our A22, at the time, was probably one of the lightest things I towed with that truck.  

I can't keep up with the Ford models and engine offerings.  I know the King Ranch used to be 3.5L standard but that could have changed in the newer models.

 

 

[Alta]

4 minutes ago, wedge88 said:

Do you have the 3.5L or 2.7L Eco?  I wouldn't hesitate to tow a 25LSV with a 3.5L Eco but would want higher rear ends, if possible.  Had a 2014 (3.73 and 3.5L Eco) for many years and still one of my favorite trucks to drive.  Our A22, at the time, was probably one of the lightest things I towed with that truck.  

I can't keep up with the Ford models and engine offerings.  I know the King Ranch used to be 3.5L standard but that could have changed in the newer models.

 

 

It’s got the 3.5L Eco and max trailering package or whatever they called it.

[Slayer]

5 minutes ago, Alta said:

It’s got the 3.5L Eco and max trailering package or whatever they called it.

You should be fine.  I wouldn't blink at that.  I tow regularly for 4 hours at a time with my 2019 F-150 3.5L EB with max tow and have no issues with the 22VLX.  I will suggest something thought.  Due to the positive effects on @bamaboy Raptor towing a G23, I followed his lead and installed a set of Timbren SES to the truck.  It makes a HUGE difference.  It takes most of the sag out and feels much more confident than the stock condition.  YMMV.  I'm considering ordering a 2021 23LSV and have no intention of upgrading tow vehicles. 

 

[Wolflake]

You will be more than fine, regardless of the length of the trip. There are always those truck nuts that say 3/4 ton....simply put a 1/2 ton with the 3.5 is a great choice.

[kylesullens]

15 minutes ago, Wolflake said:

You will be more than fine, regardless of the length of the trip. There are always those truck nuts that say 3/4 ton....simply put a 1/2 ton with the 3.5 is a great choice.

The 1/2 tons will handle most situations just fine.

I prefer towing with a 3/4 ton because it is a heavier vehicle with more power.  If that makes me a "truck nut", so be it.

[BlindSquirrel]

55 minutes ago, Wolflake said:

You will be more than fine, regardless of the length of the trip. There are always those truck nuts that say 3/4 ton....simply put a 1/2 ton with the 3.5 is a great choice.

Another truck nut here too I guess. Night and day difference towing with a 3/4. Ours is diesel so it very rarely downshifts with the cruise control on running 75. While getting 16 mpg towing our vlx and 14 towing a 25 lsv. Yeah, a 1/2 ton could tow those, but will work much harder and get like 7-8 mpg. Not sure the mileage a eco boost will get, my 1/2 ton mpg is from a v8 Chevy.

[kylesullens]

6 minutes ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Another truck nut here too I guess. Night and day difference towing with a 3/4. Ours is diesel so it very rarely downshifts with the cruise control on running 75. While getting 16 mpg towing our vlx and 14 towing a 25 lsv. Yeah, a 1/2 ton could tow those, but will work much harder and get like 7-8 mpg. Not sure the mileage a eco boost will get, my 1/2 ton mpg is from a v8 Chevy.

Something else to consider - these boats are heavy (5500lbs ish).  Add the weight of the trailer, gear, fuel, etc, and they quickly approach the GCWR of the 1/2 ton trucks.  The trucks can handle this without issue.  But if you are involved in an accident and the insurance company determines that you were towing above the manufacturer's stated capacity of the vehicle, they can deny you coverage.  Even if you were not at fault.

Adding airbags, computer tuners, and other performance enhancements makes your tow vehicle more capable.  But these additions DO NOT increase the stated GCWR of the rig, so you are still at risk of overloading it and running the risk of being held responsible in the event of an accident.

We own a ranch and do a good deal of heavy towing.  I am as guilty as anyone of towing above the specs of the truck.  I do so safely, but I am always aware that if there is an accident, I am going to be held responsible.

 

[Wolflake]

Ha I love the diesel crowd, you get better mileage sure, but fuel costs 30% more, oil changes are double the cost, the diesel engine costs $8k more and I could go on. 
Towing power from the diesel is great, there’s no denying it, but most of the time it’s just over kill and simply not needed. 

[IXFE]

@The Hulk tows a 25 LSV with an F150 Ecoboost.  I'm sure he can help set your mind at ease.

[dalt1]

I tow my 18 LSV23 with my 15 year old Nissan Titan. Just did a 200 mile trip from Nashville to east TN on I40, it has to work but still gets the job done. Elevation changes from 500 to over 2000 ft on the way so some climbing included. Yep 7 to 8 MPG at 65 to 70 MPH. Wish I had a newer model with more gears, mine is a 5 speed the newer ones are 7 and now 9 speeds. At only 48,000 miles on my truck now, it will be several years before she is worn out. I'm sure the newer model Fords can surely out perform a 15 year old! My boat on the trailer Full of gas and beer tips the scales at over 7,000lbs.

[BlindSquirrel]

6 minutes ago, Wolflake said:

Ha I love the diesel crowd, you get better mileage sure, but fuel costs 30% more, oil changes are double the cost, the diesel engine costs $8k more and I could go on. 
Towing power from the diesel is great, there’s no denying it, but most of the time it’s just over kill and simply not needed. 

Pros and cons to each I guess, and to each their own. Diesel is cheaper than gas here in Kansas, has been for the past 6 months but was 10-20 cents more than gas pre virus. Using your 30% higher cost of fuel number.. I’d pay 30% more to go 50% further. I change my oil at 15k mile intervals  like the manual states for like $80. Yes, they are ~8k more up front that you get back when you resell it. Paying more upfront, to me, is well worth the performance. Drive what you want, the less people using diesel...the cheaper it is for me!

[kylesullens]

20 minutes ago, Wolflake said:

Ha I love the diesel crowd, you get better mileage sure, but fuel costs 30% more, oil changes are double the cost, the diesel engine costs $8k more and I could go on. 
Towing power from the diesel is great, there’s no denying it, but most of the time it’s just over kill and simply not needed. 

Ha I love the 25LSV crowd, you get better waves sure, but it uses 30% more fuel, maintenance/insurance/registration are double the cost, the boat costs $100k more and I could go on. 
Wave shape and interior comfort from the 25LSV is great, there’s no denying it, but most of the time it’s just over kill and simply not needed. 

 

I agree that 90% of guys that have diesels don't need them.  If you live in town and all you are towing is a boat, then it is overkill.  But to each his own.

To your other points:

Check the fuel prices - diesel has been on par with unleaded for some time now.

Oil changes cost more at the dealer and other shops.  If you take the 20 minutes to do it yourself.  Costs about $25.  Same argument for routine boat maintenance.

Diesel trucks costs more.  But you realize that investment at resale time.  I don't have solid numbers, but the diesel trucks hold their value to a MUCH higher degree than the gassers.  

 

not trying to start an argument, but 99.8% of things discussed on this site would be considered over kill and simply not needed by most folks.  This is how we spend our resources, mainly time and money.  It is a choice and it is not for everyone.

[camcruiser13]

2 hours ago, Alta said:

I am in the market for a 16 23 or 25 LSV.  My tow vehicle is a 2019 F150 King Ranch with the Ecoboost engine.  Never used it to tow before.  It seems more than sufficient to tow the 23 LSV but curious about if it is powerful enough for the 25 LSV.  Anybody with experience?

i would love to just upgrade to an F250 but then my truck would not fit in parking garage at work...

no need,  the eco boost is plenty.  i tow my 25 lsv with an eco boost all the time and its great.  

 

it rides much better than the 250 as well  and i dont tow the boat nonstop and the 250 just doesnt ride nice enough for an everyday vehicle 

 

i also just picked up the gmc 3.0 babymax  it tows the 25 just fine   do 80-90 mph if i wanted to back and forth from lake to lake.  sure youll have more power when towing with a 250 but the ride in exchange isnt worth it.

[Alta]

40 minutes ago, kylesullens said:

Something else to consider - these boats are heavy (5500lbs ish).  Add the weight of the trailer, gear, fuel, etc, and they quickly approach the GCWR of the 1/2 ton trucks.  The trucks can handle this without issue.  But if you are involved in an accident and the insurance company determines that you were towing above the manufacturer's stated capacity of the vehicle, they can deny you coverage.  Even if you were not at fault.

Adding airbags, computer tuners, and other performance enhancements makes your tow vehicle more capable.  But these additions DO NOT increase the stated GCWR of the rig, so you are still at risk of overloading it and running the risk of being held responsible in the event of an accident.

We own a ranch and do a good deal of heavy towing.  I am as guilty as anyone of towing above the specs of the truck.  I do so safely, but I am always aware that if there is an accident, I am going to be held responsible.

 

Thanks - good point.  I called the dealer to look up what I can tow based on my VIN and the truck is rated to tow 12,700 pounds and the and the GCWR is 18,200 pounds.

[camcruiser13]

1 hour ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Another truck nut here too I guess. Night and day difference towing with a 3/4. Ours is diesel so it very rarely downshifts with the cruise control on running 75. While getting 16 mpg towing our vlx and 14 towing a 25 lsv. Yeah, a 1/2 ton could tow those, but will work much harder and get like 7-8 mpg. Not sure the mileage a eco boost will get, my 1/2 ton mpg is from a v8 Chevy.

25 lsv pulled eco boost will get 10-14 mpg even better if you dont have a heavy foot, but i drive fast

[camcruiser13]

youll be fine

[carguy79ta]

Oh well. Another truck nut here. 6.7 Cummins. 200hp tune. 1mpg better than stock. Smoke the tires and thru the exhaust at will. Have to baby the throttle when towing. 

Who cares.

The biggest issue is Stopping and Controlling your load if conditions get squirrely. JMO enjoy your boat!

[st22eve]

3 hours ago, Alta said:

I am in the market for a 16 23 or 25 LSV.  My tow vehicle is a 2019 F150 King Ranch with the Ecoboost engine.  Never used it to tow before.  It seems more than sufficient to tow the 23 LSV but curious about if it is powerful enough for the 25 LSV.  Anybody with experience?

i would love to just upgrade to an F250 but then my truck would not fit in parking garage at work...

I've been towing boats since 2002 with F150's, in 2011 I got the ecoboost 3.5 and towed with it until 2017 and got a new 17 xlt 3.5 gen2 motor with 10spd. Not once did I ever think I needed more truck. I'm currently towing a 17 22mxz with absolutely zero issues. One thing I would highly recommend for the beast is an upgraded intercooler so you avoid that heat soak and keeps the truck running at full power and performance when towing. I'm in the AZ heat and I swapped intercoolers on both trucks, and run 91 or 93 octane if possible 👍🏻

Edited August 10, 2020 by st22eve

[JeffK]

42 minutes ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Pros and cons to each I guess, and to each their own. Diesel is cheaper than gas here in Kansas, has been for the past 6 months but was 10-20 cents more than gas pre virus. Using your 30% higher cost of fuel number.. I’d pay 30% more to go 50% further. I change my oil at 15k mile intervals  like the manual states for like $80. Yes, they are ~8k more up front that you get back when you resell it. Paying more upfront, to me, is well worth the performance. Drive what you want, the less people using diesel...the cheaper it is for me!

There are definitely pros and cons to each choice.  We took a trip to Hilton Head in my truck (2500 HD)a month or so back and made it the entire way on a tank of gas with some to spare.  I think I got 658 miles on a tank of diesel.  I know I would have never gotten that out of my old gas 2500.

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, kylesullens said:

But if you are involved in an accident and the insurance company determines that you were towing above the manufacturer's stated capacity of the vehicle, they can deny you coverage.  Even if you were not at fault.

FYI, the above statement is not true.  In order to deny coverage, it would have to be written in the policy as a policy exclusion if towing above the manufactures weight rating - a rating that really holds no legal standing, but is more a compromise between the manufacturers marketing team that wants to claim "best in class" vs the actuaries that want to limit warranty exposure.

As far as the EcoBoost - the 3.5 has ample power.  My 2nd string tow vehicle is a 2019 Expedition MAX with the 3.5.  It will comfortably tow my LSV, but it gets about 9 MPG towing at around 70 MPH.  My Cummins in my primary tow vehicle gets better MPG towing, but not what others claim to get.

All that said, if I had to have one tow vehicle, I wouldn't get a 150/1500.  The 2500 platform is simply a signifiant upgrade over the 150/1500.  It isn't just the power, it is the fact that I can tow my boat 500 miles and be perfectly relaxed when I get where I am going.  I am not saying that towing with my Expedition is white knuckle, because it isn't, but it also isn't nearly as stress free as towing with my truck.

Is a 2500 truck really that much bigger than an F150 - so much so that it wouldn't fit in a parking garage?

[Alta]

24 minutes ago, RyanB said:

FYI, the above statement is not true.  In order to deny coverage, it would have to be written in the policy as a policy exclusion if towing above the manufactures weight rating - a rating that really holds no legal standing, but is more a compromise between the manufacturers marketing team that wants to claim "best in class" vs the actuaries that want to limit warranty exposure.

As far as the EcoBoost - the 3.5 has ample power.  My 2nd string tow vehicle is a 2019 Expedition MAX with the 3.5.  It will comfortably tow my LSV, but it gets about 9 MPG towing at around 70 MPH.  My Cummins in my primary tow vehicle gets better MPG towing, but not what others claim to get.

All that said, if I had to have one tow vehicle, I wouldn't get a 150/1500.  The 2500 platform is simply a signifiant upgrade over the 150/1500.  It isn't just the power, it is the fact that I can tow my boat 500 miles and be perfectly relaxed when I get where I am going.  I am not saying that towing with my Expedition is white knuckle, because it isn't, but it also isn't nearly as stress free as towing with my truck.

Is a 2500 truck really that much bigger than an F150 - so much so that it wouldn't fit in a parking garage?

Thanks for info - and while it might fit it would be a pain (at least in my current garage).  I have my F-150 leveled and with 34” tires and height wise is close but fine (imagine an F250 would be similar).  I park in a downtown garage and the problem with the F250 is it is big enough to make it where you have to do three point turns to get up several levels.  I have no desire to do that everyday.  There are several downtown garages where even my F-150 would be to tall.

[Cole2001]

Just upgraded to a 2020 Denali duramax and this truck is an absolute beast. Passing vehicles up a mountain passes with a 9500k boat behind, like nothing. One of the biggest advantages over the half ton isnt so much the power more so the handling in the suspension and added weight to the TV. Drives like an absolute dream compared to traditional HD trucks. And for us Canadians diesel is way cheaper than regular gasoline. 
 

But then again if you are using it as your daily driver and you aren’t going over large mountains the gas will be more than adequate. The only thing would be your tongue weight and gvwr.