2020 Axis A22 just burned up impeller

[granddaddy55]

1 hour ago, dalt1 said:

Another win for my LOUD old Raptor!

 

check your indmar motor manual maintenance schedule, it may not even be 100, might be inspect at 100, see my gm indmar schedule below 

[ahopkins22LSV]

57 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

is Sierra making them?  if not maybe they should be hired to do so since Malibu’s in house developed power plant‘s reputation seems to be on the line over a $35-50 part 

This is such a ridiculous statement. The entire reputation? Yes let’s ignore how it’s literally outperforming every engine I’ve ever owned in every category, by a long shot for the fact that I have to spend $100 on impellers each year. 

[RyanB]

You can hardly seem to be able to browse the Facebook group without seeing all sorts of complaints about these.  Many lasting well less than 50 hours.

Sure, some of those could be abuse.  But not all of them.  Put me in the camp that thinks they should last more than 50 hours.  I think I have changed mine twice on my boat.  I just turned 600 hours. 

[shawndoggy]

PCM does recommend a 50 hour service.  On my 2011 MB with EX343, that seemed to be dead on... by 50 hours they all seemed to have a chunk out of them.  The one below was part of an apparently defective run of impellers that I bought from nautiqueparts.com.  It had like 25 hours on it.  

 

My PCM 450 in my T22 has the same raw water pump, but doesn't tear up impellers nearly as bad.  Maybe it's a function of the 450 being closed-cooled vs the 343 being raw water cooled?  Dunno.  But I just changed a two year old impeller with 122 hours on it and aside from the vanes being a little bent, it looked perfect. No chunks out and no missing vanes.

[hethj7]

51 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

This is such a ridiculous statement. The entire reputation? Yes let’s ignore how it’s literally outperforming every engine I’ve ever owned in every category, by a long shot for the fact that I have to spend $100 on impellers each year. 

Love ya man, but I think you are drinking the Malibu juice.  I agree it is a relatively small issue, but it isn’t want you want everyone talking about on your new motor.   I love the motor overall but the impeller issue is everywhere right now.  Here, FB, and multiple personal examples within my boating friends.  And if it was just more frequent replacement that would be fine.  But they are failing and leaving folks stranded on water at unpredictable intervals.  

I wish someone would comment how these same impellers hold up on the Mastercraft application.  When my impeller failed I was in an area that only had a Mastercraft dealer.  They had the Sherwood 15000K and said that was what the 7.4L uses (not sure on other engines).  I can’t find much internet chatter on failures in that application, but also figure Teamtalk would censor it anyways.   
 

If it is truly a “bad batch” of impellers you would think you would here it across other applications than just Malibu.  I am also curious now if Malibu produced their own pump or are using one that is standard and used in other applications.  
 

 

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

6 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Love ya man, but I think you are drinking the Malibu juice.  I agree it is a relatively small issue, but it isn’t want you want everyone talking about on your new motor.   I love the motor overall but the impeller issue is everywhere right now.  Here, FB, and multiple personal examples within my boating friends.  And if it was just more frequent replacement that would be fine.  But they are failing and leaving folks stranded on water at unpredictable intervals.  

I wish someone would comment how these same impellers hold up on the Mastercraft application.  When my impeller failed I was in an area that only had a Mastercraft dealer.  They had the Sherwood 15000K and said that was what the 7.4L uses (not sure on other engines).  I can’t find much internet chatter on failures in that application, but also figure Teamtalk would censor it anyways.   
 

If it is truly a “bad batch” of impellers you would think you would here it across other applications than just Malibu.  I am also curious now if Malibu produced their own pump or are using one that is standard and used in other applications.  
 

 

 

Talking about it, and saying it’s going to ruin its entire reputation is two totally different things. And yes I am drinking the juice because that’s how well this engine is performing. I’ve had the 5.7 sbc indmar, the raptor, the 6.0 pcm and this one is by far the best performing engine. Easiest oil change and winterization I’ve done. It’s the quietest. Heck even meets the highest emissions rating out there. I’ve already said I feel they should last longer. Here and Facebook, but if this is one negative, then so be it. There are always trade offs. Like I said earlier, I bet it can be made better. Maybe they are already working on it. I just strongly disagree this can be said to ruin its entire reputation. 

[shawndoggy]

engine performance (power over the range and whatnot) could be great and you could still have a crummy impeller run or a bad raw water pump design.  I mean until you lose an impeller it probably performs great.

[hethj7]

@ahopkinsVTX Valid point, ruining their entire reputation is an overstatement. 

[Ronnie]

I haven't lost an impeller on a 2020. I idle for probably over 5 minutes as we idle from our lift, out of the no wake zone. I wonder how many impellers are lost because peple aren't letting their motors warm up and prime before increasing the RPM's to full throttle heading out to the lake from the ramp? I wonder if it makes much difference if you trailer or keep it on a lift with the trailering making the motor lose it's prime as it's bouncing down the road? Is the pump housing being so high on the motor an issue? So many things can contribute to this problem.  How many are you NOT hearing from that haven't had issues? Something is wrong and you can bet there are people at several different companies trying to find out what it is. Is it going to hurt Malibu? I doubt it.

[formerathlete]

Have any of you who’ve had the Crusader Monsoon 409 seen impeller problems like this or is it more exclusive to the M5/M6? “Problems” being defined as what appears to be premature failure.

Edited July 24, 2020 by formerathlete

[Bozboat]

Not a fan of the globe impeller although the blue color is neato. 

[Eagleboy99]

43 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Not a fan of the globe impeller although the blue color is neato. 

I have blue LEDs in my fridge - except I never get to see them after the door closes. 

[hethj7]

1 hour ago, formerathlete said:

Have any of you who’ve had the Crusader Monsoon 409 seen impeller problems like this or is it more exclusive to the M5/M6? “Problems” being defined as what appears to be premature failure.

Pretty sure this is really just related to the M5/6 with the Sherwood impeller (and Sherwood pump?).  

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, formerathlete said:

Have any of you who’ve had the Crusader Monsoon 409 seen impeller problems like this or is it more exclusive to the M5/M6? “Problems” being defined as what appears to be premature failure.

you should still probably check at 50 hrs.  But my experience has been that my impellers last a long long time.

[formerathlete]

5 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Maybe it's a function of the 450 being closed-cooled vs the 343 being raw water cooled? 

Did you convert your 450 to a closed cooling system?

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, formerathlete said:

Did you convert your 450 to a closed cooling system?

No... I paid extra for it. 

[agarabaghi]

Even if it comes down to the housing being out of spec (rumors) ... and they recall it and switch them out. Malibu “rep” will be nice more tarnished than last years gas line recall or sea star hydraulic line recall this year. It happens it will be resolved and dealer quality will play a much bigger role. I’ve got 113 hours on our 2020 and the only one that failed was one that came from the dealer 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

14 minutes ago, agarabaghi said:

Even if it comes down to the housing being out of spec (rumors) ... and they recall it and switch them out. Malibu “rep” will be nice more tarnished than last years gas line recall or sea star hydraulic line recall this year. It happens it will be resolved and dealer quality will play a much bigger role. I’ve got 113 hours on our 2020 and the only one that failed was one that came from the dealer 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

 

How does the fuel pump tarnish Malibu’s rep? The supplier that supplies the pet the all OEMs messed up and recalled all of them. 
 

The raw water pump could be the same situation if that’s true. If the supplier doesn’t notify the OEM of an issue or lies about the product status in terms of dimensional results, or just flat out didn’t check the ORM will have no idea. An OEM doesn’t have time to measure and validate 100% of every part coming through the door. That’s the suppliers job through their initial part validation at the beginning of the program/project and then control per quality through their own process controls.  Most OEMs, even the strictest of automotive OEMs, only require an annual or quarterly data validation to be submitted to them. Again, it’s up to the supplier to control quality and if there is an issue to communicate that to the OEM. 

[UWSkier]

Conspiracy time:

Malibu went out of their way to tout the FEAD and how easy they've made it to access maintenance parts. They picked crap impellers to highlight just how much easier they are to replace. 

[agarabaghi]

3 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

How does the fuel pump tarnish Malibu’s rep? The supplier that supplies the pet the all OEMs messed up and recalled all of them. 
 

The raw water pump could be the same situation if that’s true. If the supplier doesn’t notify the OEM of an issue or lies about the product status in terms of dimensional results, or just flat out didn’t check the ORM will have no idea. An OEM doesn’t have time to measure and validate 100% of every part coming through the door. That’s the suppliers job through their initial part validation at the beginning of the program/project and then control per quality through their own process controls.  Most OEMs, even the strictest of automotive OEMs, only require an annual or quarterly data validation to be submitted to them. Again, it’s up to the supplier to control quality and if there is an issue to communicate that to the OEM. 

My point exactly none of them do, I’m pretty sure Malibu isn’t casting water pumps. 
 

ps...just heard about a tsb ... 🙊

[agarabaghi]

46 minutes ago, gregtay said:

Anyone with a new water pump come back with a blown impeller yet?

🤞🏼

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, agarabaghi said:

My point exactly none of them do, I’m pretty sure Malibu isn’t casting water pumps. 
 

ps...just heard about a tsb ... 🙊

Oh, my bad. I read your post wrong.

[gtoddh]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:50 PM, agarabaghi said:

have you tried changing the m5di impeller, it is not as easy as the pcm, we found removing the hoses and 2 15mm bolts and removing the whole pump housing much easier than trying to get it in without.

Globe 626 is the impeller yourlooking for. $75 

https://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/ships_store/?p=details&ident=326019&mfc=Globe+Rubber+Works&sku=626&prod_name=GLOBE+RESILIENT+BLUE+IMPELLER&sectionid=9606

 

I just ordered 2 from Bakes that were $32.99 each.  With shipping it was $77.17.

https://www.bakesonline.com/malibu-m5-and-m6-engine-water-pump-impeller-kit.html

[gtoddh]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:04 AM, ahopkinsVTX said:

Yeah I just did that last night. Soapy water really helped getting the old one out. Mine was showing wear so I’m happy I changed it. 

What engine?  I have the M5 and it's going to be a pain I expect after seeing where the pump is and the lack of clearance to the intake runners.

Also about losing prime or running dry - when I removed the cover to inspect my impeller a small amount of water did flow out of the pump.  I don't think it was enough for the pump to be full but definitely enough to keep the pump wet during start up.  I hadn't run the boat in at least 10 days when I checked the impeller.

I was able to get the cover bolts out ok but I'm sure it's going to be a challenge to replace the impeller.  @agarabaghi I'd like to know how you did it with removing the pump.  Did you have to release tension on the drive belt?  Did you take pics when you did it?

[hethj7]

Yep, several of us have been disappointed in how tough access is to the new impellers.  Of course, I get they tried to make it it universal for all models - in my 25LSV there would have been lots of space to have the impeller pull out towards the transom.  My buddy’s 22MXZ with the walk through though has almost zero space towards the transom.  Even the oil filter is much tougher to access on it (but still not too bad).