2020 Axis A22 just burned up impeller

[Macutak]

Have any of you heard of the new A22's having this problem.  Dealer said they have been getting a lot of these from the 2020's and it is random.  Ours only has 25 hours or so on it and has run great with no issues.  Thinking of switching to the Globe impeller.  Has anyone else had this happen for seemingly no reason, no debris, no dry running?  Fortunately I have trained my sons to watch the temperature and check for water in the bilge on every put in on the water and he caught it as it hit 200-220.  Then towed back rather than trying to limp back and cause damage.  But we are taking it to the dealer who mentioned they have been having this issue.  Ideas?

[ahopkins22LSV]

It seems to be a priming issue either from not getting prime at first start of the day or the sea strainer being full. I’ve been watching my sea strainer closely and have been giving it a good throttle goose at first startup and I just changed mine at 51.7 hours per the service schedule. It had two missing vanes and showed a bit of other wear. I plan to continue doing what I was doing, and carrying a spare. 

[boardjnky4]

Supposedly Malibu changed impeller suppliers to fix the problem.

[agarabaghi]

Know issue with some (many) Sherwood impellers. I’ve been using the staycoolpumps impeller and no issues. The globe 626 is also suppose to be great and can run dry for 15mins.

 

bakesmarine has the “revised impeller as wel” which I believe is just the staycoolpumps one. 
 

there’s been some talk about the tolerance of some housing being off, but nothing confirmed. I’ve got 113 hours on my boat... impeller at 25 hours looked fine and was replaced, impeller at 100hours looks fine and was replaced by dealer, that impeller fell apart in 13hours. 
 

I installed the stay cool pump one and so far no issues now.

[granddaddy55]

2 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

It seems to be a priming issue either from not getting prime at first start of the day or the sea strainer being full. I’ve been watching my sea strainer closely and have been giving it a good throttle goose at first startup and I just changed mine at 51.7 hours per the service schedule. It had two missing vanes and showed a bit of other wear. I plan to continue doing what I was doing, and carrying a spare. 

a 51 hour impeller change as normal, that is ridiculous, should be seasonal at worst with unlimited hours in that season

[agarabaghi]

And you might get that, but the manual states 50hours. 

[boardjnky4]

FWIW, PCM/Crusader also calls for 50 hours. I went 170 on the original, and it was at the end of its lifespan at that time.

[ahopkins22LSV]

11 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

a 51 hour impeller change as normal, that is ridiculous, should be seasonal at worst with unlimited hours in that season

Seriously? It’s like $42 shipped from bakes. So even if you do 100 hours a year you are at less than a dollar an hour. It’s a rubber paddle wheel stuffed in a super tight space rotating at an extreme rate of speed for extended periods of time. 
 

Many people don’t even out 50 hours on their boat a season as well...

[Danimal154]

1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Seriously? It’s like $42 shipped from bakes. So even if you do 100 hours a year you are at less than a dollar an hour. It’s a rubber paddle wheel stuffed in a super tight space rotating at an extreme rate of speed for extended periods of time. 
 

Many people don’t even out 50 hours on their boat a season as well...

Changed mine at 52 hours and it looked fine. It was the sherwood one. I bought 2 new ones from Bakes and installed that. Was a pain in the A$$ and took me so damn long to get the old one out. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

11 minutes ago, Danimal154 said:

Changed mine at 52 hours and it looked fine. It was the sherwood one. I bought 2 new ones from Bakes and installed that. Was a pain in the A$$ and took me so damn long to get the old one out. 

Yeah I just did that last night. Soapy water really helped getting the old one out. Mine was showing wear so I’m happy I changed it. 

[agarabaghi]

i find it easier to pull the housing off, 2x 15mm wrenches, and the hoses.

 

[carguy79ta]

I had a staycool impeller I put on this spring. On a Facebook page a bunch of peeps were talking about it being inferior quality. Had a PCM unit ( for my PCM motor)so I swapped out the staycool one. The staycool impeller showed deformation and starting of wiping of the vanes after 6 hrs. Wont use that brand again.

[Macutak]

Dealer replace mine and said it was supposedly bad rubber. This was ours after 50 hours.  We just had it in for the 50 hour servicing by dealer and not sure why they did not replace it then.  Would have saved us the hassle. I know I shouldn’t have but my 06 VLX could go two seasons on an impeller with only bent fins and maybe one or two missing vanes at the end of a fin  

here is what we found on the overheat of the Axis.  But I have a sea pump that is a single spline on the impeller Instead of the full geared impeller.  I could not find the Globe impeller on Bakes with the single spline.  I love the Globe impellers and always keep two on the boat.  One for me and one for very grateful fellow boaters at lake Powell. (Had one guy shove $200 in my hand when I told him I had a spare for him. 
 

Finally, so pleased that the new Axis has made impeller change a five minute job with great access to the sea pump (malibu 06 did you just hate my guts or something?  It was harder than changing a headlight in a Subaru Outback).  For those who insist on not having an impeller puller on your boat, at least keep 4 of these on your boat from the paint store as they are free or 25 cents.  Two of them can make removal so easy. 

[agarabaghi]

have you tried changing the m5di impeller, it is not as easy as the pcm, we found removing the hoses and 2 15mm bolts and removing the whole pump housing much easier than trying to get it in without.

Globe 626 is the impeller yourlooking for. $75 

https://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/ships_store/?p=details&ident=326019&mfc=Globe+Rubber+Works&sku=626&prod_name=GLOBE+RESILIENT+BLUE+IMPELLER&sectionid=9606

 

[Eagleboy99]

28 minutes ago, agarabaghi said:

Globe 626 is the impeller yourlooking for.

haven't there been multiple reports of those things failing?

[granddaddy55]

On 7/22/2020 at 7:30 AM, ahopkinsVTX said:

Seriously? It’s like $42 shipped from bakes. So even if you do 100 hours a year you are at less than a dollar an hour. It’s a rubber paddle wheel stuffed in a super tight space rotating at an extreme rate of speed for extended periods of time. 
 

Many people don’t even out 50 hours on their boat a season as well...

i get seasonal, but 4 times a year for us southerners?????? , something is wrong with the part or design of pump

[ahopkins22LSV]

9 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

i get seasonal, but 4 times a year for us southerners?????? , something is wrong with the part or design of pump

You can't say you are ok with seasonal and then qualify it with hours. I promise you people who can only get 40-50 hours of actual riding up north, would be more than willing to change the impeller 4 times a season for 200 hours of riding. When you run that many hours you have to accept the fact that your maintenance is going to be more than others. Do you complain about doing an oil change ever 50 hours too?

Could it be improved? Maybe, probably - anything can be improved. Maybe Malibu is even working on it, its been proven time and time again that they pay attention to things on these forums and Facebook.

[agarabaghi]

its been well document that the issue is with the impeller. Order yourself a globe or the revision from bakes marine.

 

https://www.bakesonline.com/malibu-m5-and-m6-engine-water-pump-impeller-kit.html

 

Quote

Updated and improved Malibu M5 and M6 Engine Water Pump Impeller Kit. The kit includes a new impeller, o-ring & silicone lubricant to service your water pump on a Malibu M5 or Malibu M6 engine. Please note this kit does not include the paper gaskets which are not used on Malibu's engine. This kit also services the Sherwood G1502, G1503, G1503-01, G1503-02, and G1503-03 water pumps.

Early production M5 and M6 engines had a Sherwood 1500K impeller in them and Malibu / Axis found them to fail prematurely in their application and have switched to this new impeller kit.

 

[granddaddy55]

4 minutes ago, agarabaghi said:

its been well document that the issue is with the impeller. Order yourself a globe or the revision from bakes marine.

 

https://www.bakesonline.com/malibu-m5-and-m6-engine-water-pump-impeller-kit.html

 

 

thats what i thought, its either the part or pump, cant be that the interval is correct 

[agarabaghi]

well being that ive had 2 impellers with zero issues and then one exploded at 113hours (about 4 hours after changing it) im leaning to random impellers floating aroun dealer shelfs which are bad and no way of knowing. Ive been using the amazon staycoolpump for now and it holding up fine. The globe looks like a sure win.

[ahopkins22LSV]

FWIW, here are the impeller intervals for all major manufactures for tow boats.

1. Malibu Monsoon Engines - 50 hours
2. PCM - 50 hours
3. Ilmor - 75 hours
4. Raptor - 100 hours

[dalt1]

2 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

FWIW, here are the impeller intervals for all major manufactures for tow boats.

1. Malibu Monsoon Engines - 50 hours
2. PCM - 50 hours
3. Ilmor - 75 hours
4. Raptor - 100 hours

Another win for my LOUD old Raptor!

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by dalt1

[granddaddy55]

and as per indmar maintenance schedule below for my ‘14, it calls for inspection at 100, 300, annual, with replacement mandated at 2 years( about the same as an outboard lower unit impeller and gear oil)

 

i will stick with seasonal unless i get stuck in some mud with engine running or sand with or without engine running ir maybe a clogged flat with grass ( all of which dont happen where we go) ,  outboards used fishing in estuaries (lots of shallow situations everywhere ) dont eat up impellers and dont get changed until someone changes the lower unit oil which often is not even annual

i have never had a bad impeller in 35 years of  operating outboards snd  6 years for inboards with the 20+++ years of the reliable johnson pump and the italian assembled Sierra impeller, im not saying they don't happen but the above combo seems very reliable

isn't that what a temp gauge snd alarm are for???

 

[COOP]

.

Edited July 27, 2020 by COOP

[granddaddy55]

21 minutes ago, COOP said:

Just a heads up, we've had issues with the new version impeller as well. 

Version one impellers were falling apart.

Version two impellers that we've had issues with are spinning the brass center free from the rubber.

is Sierra making them?  if not maybe they should be hired to do so since Malibu’s in house developed power plant‘s reputation seems to be on the line over a $35-50 part