Full Size SUV Questions

[RyanB]

I'd like to keep our 2011 Denali XL for a few more years, but Mrs RyanB isn't on the same page.  I don't want to keep it because I like it, more because I don't want another car payment right now.  

The Yukon has never been my favorite vehicle.  I have always thought that the interior felt cheap, and it has more rattles than about anything I've ever owned.  

The Yukon has just turned 100,000 miles, just went in for service on traction control.  Turned out it needed some sort of wheel sensor (third time for this one), and also needed a new compressor for the suspension.  So now my wife thinks that it is going to nickel and dime us, and wants something newer.

I had in mind that in two years or so, I would replace it with either a Lincoln Navigator, or by then Jeep would FINALLY launch their Grand Wagoneer.  But here I am, starting a search (half-arsed right now) to replace it.

Obviously the Jeep isn't an option yet.  The Ford Expedition seems to have the same interior weaknesses that I hate about our current Yukon (it feels cheap).  The Lincoln is an upgrade, but stupid expensive.  Which leaves me looking at a Yukon or Escalade.

I don't want to spend $80k +, so thinking used, 2017/2018 models (maybe in the $50k range?).  I know those are all the same "generation", but there seems to be some differences in them.  Anyone know when they went to the 10 speed transmission?  Also when did they up the tow rating on the integrated hitch?  Other thoughts on what years are worth considering?

Edited August 14, 2019 by RyanB
Not just about GM

[asnowman]

Keep the one you have.  We upgraded from and 07 Yukon Denali XL, to a 2017. The only thing i like better about the new one is the gas mileage. Has more wierd rattles than the old one did (and it had over 200k miles), has more buttons than are safe to try and figure out, seems to actually have less space inside, and the seats are much less comfortable.  Look for a 2018 if you must, the wireless phone charger in the 2017 doesn't work, drive me nuts, I think the transmision was upgraded for 2018 as well.  I have owned Escalades before, they were both in the shop more than my yukons have been, and didn't hold resale as well.  If i had to do over again, i would have looked for a 14 or 15 with low mileage. Just my 2 cents.

[jjackkrash]

Do you have to have XL size?

You can get into a 2017-ish Mercedes GLS class CPO for around $50k.  3 rows, no rattles, and a kick-a$$ interior.  My wife loves her smaller ML 400 and for about $5k we got an extra 10 years and an extra 100k miles on top of the CPO warranty through Zurich (I generally don't get warranties, but on a Benz we are planning to keep for a long time I thought it made sense).

[gregtay]

24 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Do you have to have XL size?

You can get into a 2017-ish Mercedes GLS class CPO for around $50k.  3 rows, no rattles, and a kick-a$$ interior.  My wife loves her smaller ML 400 and for about $5k we got an extra 10 years and an extra 100k miles on top of the CPO warranty through Zurich (I generally don't get warranties, but on a Benz we are planning to keep for a long time I thought it made sense).

I am a big believer in mid sized German SUVs as tow vehicles. MB GLS, Cayenne, Q7 (and their semi German brothers the WK2 GC and Durango)  The key is getting one equip right. 4 Corner air suspension + a higher spec motor and some big Brembos and you are good to go.  If you want a full sized SUV.. is a new Armada or preown QX80 an option (same rig, different interior.)

 

[ORMailbuboater]

2018 was the year GM switched to the 10 speed tranny. 

We have a 2016 Yukon XL Denali.   Build quality and reliably have been great on ours.   Granted we only just turned 20,000 so do not drive it a lot.  No squeaks or rattles in ours.  Very quiet.  I was amazed coming from a 2007 Denali with the 6 speed tranny to the 8 speed.  Two extra gears makes a big difference in the mountains.  Mileage as well is much improved.  Saw average 22 MPG (no towing) from Portland OR to San Jose CA and back (750 miles trip).  Figure that can only be improved with the 10 speed tranny.  Towing I felt was much improved with the anti sway control when towing the 23 LSV.   

Price point on 2018s looks to be in the $60k range in Denver area for a low mileage one.  Looks like you would be looking in the 2016-2017 with the 8 speed.  Think the interior on the Denali is nice.  We own a BMW, Audi as well.  Maybe not quite to that level but better than feeling it is all plastic like the earlier models.   Just my two cent.  Good luck.  

[RyanB]

2 hours ago, asnowman said:

Keep the one you have.  We upgraded from and 07 Yukon Denali XL, to a 2017. The only thing i like better about the new one is the gas mileage. Has more wierd rattles than the old one did (and it had over 200k miles), has more buttons than are safe to try and figure out, seems to actually have less space inside, and the seats are much less comfortable.  Look for a 2018 if you must, the wireless phone charger in the 2017 doesn't work, drive me nuts, I think the transmision was upgraded for 2018 as well.  I have owned Escalades before, they were both in the shop more than my yukons have been, and didn't hold resale as well.  If i had to do over again, i would have looked for a 14 or 15 with low mileage. Just my 2 cents.

I haven’t looked much, but finding a low mileage full size SUV seems to be a challenge. And from what I’ve seen the 50k mileage examples aren’t much less than a later model year. 

1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

Do you have to have XL size?

You can get into a 2017-ish Mercedes GLS class CPO for around $50k.  3 rows, no rattles, and a kick-a$$ interior.  My wife loves her smaller ML 400 and for about $5k we got an extra 10 years and an extra 100k miles on top of the CPO warranty through Zurich (I generally don't get warranties, but on a Benz we are planning to keep for a long time I thought it made sense).

Yes I have an XL. Mercedes is one brand I will never own. It’s a personal thing. They do have a nice interior though. 

1 hour ago, gregtay said:

I am a big believer in mid sized German SUVs as tow vehicles. MB GLS, Cayenne, Q7 (and their semi German brothers the WK2 GC and Durango)  The key is getting one equip right. 4 Corner air suspension + a higher spec motor and some big Brembos and you are good to go.  If you want a full sized SUV.. is a new Armada or preown QX80 an option (same rig, different interior.)

 

Love the Germans as well. Want to stay in Burb/Yukon XL/Navigator L size range. 

1 hour ago, ORMailbuboater said:

2018 was the year GM switched to the 10 speed tranny. 

We have a 2016 Yukon XL Denali.   Build quality and reliably have been great on ours.   Granted we only just turned 20,000 so do not drive it a lot.  No squeaks or rattles in ours.  Very quiet.  I was amazed coming from a 2007 Denali with the 6 speed tranny to the 8 speed.  Two extra gears makes a big difference in the mountains.  Mileage as well is much improved.  Saw average 22 MPG (no towing) from Portland OR to San Jose CA and back (750 miles trip).  Figure that can only be improved with the 10 speed tranny.  Towing I felt was much improved with the anti sway control when towing the 23 LSV.   

Price point on 2018s looks to be in the $60k range in Denver area for a low mileage one.  Looks like you would be looking in the 2016-2017 with the 8 speed.  Think the interior on the Denali is nice.  We own a BMW, Audi as well.  Maybe not quite to that level but better than feeling it is all plastic like the earlier models.   Just my two cent.  Good luck.  

That 8 speed didn’t have a long run. Is it a good tranny?

[vaporbluebu]

We just went through the exact same thing a week ago. 2008 Denali XL was having all kinds of issues and the tranny was on its way out. With a trip to Flaming Gorge only 2 days away I went shopping. We also need an XL sized car and ended up with a 2019 Expedition Max. They have great incentives right now and we picked up an XLT with the 202A package (leather and other upgrades) along with the Heavy Duty Tow package, 20” wheels and some driver assist options for mid $50k with 0% financing for 5 years.

The next day we left for Flaming Gorge (about 300 mile drive). I was expecting it to tow a little better than the Denali being newer, but still worried about the twin turbo vs that big 6.2 engine. The difference was mind blowing. That Ecoboost and 10-speed tranny is no joke. You could hardly feel the boat back there. 75 mph easy on the freeway and climbed hills with ease, never seeing the RPMs over 4000. Last year on the same trip I was constantly watching engine and transmission temps, this year they never moved off of dead center with a boat loaded to gills with camping gear climbing over an 8000’ summit. My wife who could care less about cars and has zero brand loyalty said to me after arriving that we will never own another GM SUV. It was that noticeable even to her in the passengers seat. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by vaporbluebu

[snowmanwithahat]

5 minutes ago, vaporbluebu said:

We just went through the exact same thing a week ago. 2008 Denali XL was having all kinds of issues and the tranny was on its way out. With a trip to Flaming Gorge only 2 days away I went shopping. We also need an XL sized car and ended up with a 2019 Expedition Max. They have great incentives right now and we picked up an XLT with the 202A package (leather and other upgrades) a long with 20” wheels and some driver assist options for mid $50k with 0% financing for 5 years.

The next day we left for Flaming Gorge (about 300 mile drive). I was expecting it to tow a little better than the Denali being newer, but still worried about the twin turbo vs that big 6.2 engine. The difference was mind blowing. That Ecoboost and 10-speed tranny is no joke. Last year on the same trip I was constantly watching engine and transmission temps, this year they never moved off of dead center with a boat loaded to gills with camping gear climbing over an 8000’ summit. My wife who could care less about cars and has zero brand loyalty said to me after arriving that we will never own another GM SUV. It was that noticeable even to her in the passengers seat. 

That's what I'd get as well if I had to get an SUV. I ended up with a 2500 Ram Cummins because of the need to tow a gooseneck trailer. In the world of SUVs, that's the perfect combination if you're only towing bumper pull and NEED an SUV.

[snowmanwithahat]

3 minutes ago, snowmanwithahat said:

That's what I'd get as well if I had to get an SUV. I ended up with a 2500 Ram Cummins because of the need to tow a gooseneck trailer. In the world of SUVs, that's the perfect combination if you're only towing bumper pull and NEED an SUV.

Also for what it's worth, my neighbor pulls a bumper-pull travel trailer at 36' with a weight distribution hitch with a Navigator L, air suspension, ecoboost HO (same as the raptor) and the 8 speed. It's a MONSTER.

It handles the trailer in a way you'd expect a 3/4 ton truck to do so. It actually has the pulling power to probably outrun my 2500 Cummins to the speed limit on an on-ramp with the same load. She looked long and hard for that combo in the used market and had to go from Michigan to Texas to get it, but swears it was worth it.

[Sixball]

If you don't want a diesel you just can't beat the Ford / Lincoln Ecos.  I have been pulling with a Navigator for to years now and will never go back to the big V-8's  Been pulling with my brothers Expeditions since the Ecos have been out. That is why I got my Navigator. My ski partner A life long GM guy has been running F series trucks since they came out with the Eco and says he will never go back. His last truck had 120 thousand hard miles. Pulling at max loads much of the time.  It had one injector go bad.  I would take one for a ride If I was looking.

[MLBurns]

If they are offering the Yukon Denali with the 6.2 and 10 speed I would go with that combo. My Silverado has the 6.2/10 speed, we have been pulling the boat with it and recently hauled a trailer with 6k on it 600 miles round trip. I have owned several Yukon's with the 6.2 and didn't like pulling heavy loads with them, I might go back if they have the 10 speed now. 

[mrothwell]

I'm surprised with your rattles in the Yukon.  I had an 07 that I put over 100k on in 5 years and it didn't have a single rattle.  Only thing I had to fix was the suspension air pump, and it was just a bad wiring routing issue that rubbed a wire bare and grounded it out.  I taped it, and re-routed the wiring and it was all good.

That said, my 17 Sierra 1500 gets better mileage and much better power.  Oh, still no rattles.

[Slayer]

My experience is the same with the GM that you stated, @RyanB.  As others have stated here, the ecoboost is a surprisingly strong little mill.  I've been driving them since introduction in 2011 and have nothing but good things to say, despite some minor issues.  I LOVE the new 10-speed as well.  It doesn't hunt for gears at all and in tow/haul mode it will engine brake a bit.......nothing like a diesel, but it's there nonetheless.  I don't recall who, but someone on this forum was talking about having one well into the 100k mile mark and made a very good statement about them.  If you buy one with the intent on holding it for a long time, it's best to stay on top of routine maintenance and do oil changes religiously at 3k and also service the trans, transfer case, and differential fluids more frequently than the MFR recommendations.  MFR recommendations suggest much longer service intervals that I'm comfortable with, particularly when towing frequently.  I don't tow much, and I lease my vehicles lately, so I'm a bit less religious with it than I was when I was buying them.  All this said, my towing and driving experience with the ecoboost is limited to the F-150 platform.  I don't have much to say about the Expedition or Navigators other than what I've read on the interwebs, most of which has been positive. 

 

 

[RyanB]

So, to be clear.  My Yukon (and whatever the successor will be) is a secondary tow vehicle to me.  That said, it is still likely used more than most peoples primary tow vehicle.  

I already have a 3500 RAM CTD.  We use the Yukon to tow if we are going somewhere for a trip and taking our RV (truck pulls the 5th wheel, Yukon pulls boat).  Also one trip to Lake Powell when my wife insists we take the dogs and the Yukon has more room (actually leaving on Tuesday for that).

So, it isn't that I don't want a diesel, it is that I don't want another one.

I'll take a look at the Fords.  I have had as a rental car both the new Expedition as well as the Navigator.  I liked the Lincoln, wasn't a fan of the Ex (although the engine was impressive).

I searched on both AutoTrader and Car Gurus last night for a new Ex.  Anything with leather seems to be above my target price range.  And I can't find anything with second row captains chairs, which I would prefer.

Ford actually just sent me a "private offer" of $3000 off a 2019 Expedition in the mail.  I'll probably go take a look in the next couple of weeks and see if they are different than I remember.

I'd still prefer to keep the Yukon two more years, but I am not sure I will win that argument.

[hethj7]

If you go Ford check out Zeck Ford near KC.  Kind of like Lara Buick/GMC, they may be worth the trip. 

[Sixball]

The 10 speed in Ford and GM are the same other then the way the two companies tell them how to perform.  The strategy.   I have captains in the rear and have had bench. I like the looks of the captains but my like the bench for many other reasons. Well down it makes the back more friendly. No hole for things to fall into. Easy for a quick 5 people run. I use the back more for moving dog's or gear.

[dlb]

The GM SUVs flip in the end of 2019 and early 2020.  The big difference is an independent rear suspension, allowing the rear seats to fold into the floor.  The drive line will be a 6.2 with the 10 speed.  Search for more information, there is not a whole lot yet.

You should find good discounts from dealers as the launch date approaches on the current version.

[Txstoj]

Pick up a used prior model Navigator L that will tide you over for a few years.  I was looking for a third car/tow vehicle back in January and found a 2016 Navigator L with 72k miles for $32k.  Granted we don’t drive this every day but it has 4x4 (although no low range), sync system is better than what was in our 2015 Lexus GX and it tows our 19 23LSV with no problem.

[DAI]

5 hours ago, RyanB said:

Ford actually just sent me a "private offer" of $3000 off a 2019 Expedition in the mail.  I'll probably go take a look in the next couple of weeks and see if they are different than I remember.

We looked at the new Ford Expedition for my wife prior to getting her an Atlas.  I thought the Platinum interior was a major upgrade from my '11 Denali (had an '07 Denali before that).  What trim level did you look at previously? 

[RyanB]

@DAI the two Expeditions I have been in were rentals. So XLT or Limited. 

Haven't looked at a Platinum. Not sure it will be priced in the range I want to stay in. At least not in the current body style. And despite the power train in the prior model, I’m not interested in those. 

[vaporbluebu]

6 hours ago, RyanB said:

I searched on both AutoTrader and Car Gurus last night for a new Ex.  Anything with leather seems to be above my target price range.  And I can't find anything with second row captains chairs, which I would prefer.

Ford actually just sent me a "private offer" of $3000 off a 2019 Expedition in the mail.  I'll probably go take a look in the next couple of weeks and see if they are different than I remember.

 

I searched the web as well and the biggest problem I found was anything used didn’t have the max tow package and new didn’t show the deals they have going on now.

Sticker on ours was $69k and with the incentives they have I paid $56k and zero percent financing. They also offered $53K and 1.9% for 72 months.

I haven’t messed with ours yet, but the second row “bench” is split into 3 sections and I’m almost certain you can pull the middle section to make 2 captain chairs.

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, vaporbluebu said:

 

I searched the web as well and the biggest problem I found was anything used didn’t have the max tow package and new didn’t show the deals they have going on now.

Sticker on ours was $69k and with the incentives they have I paid $56k and zero percent financing. They also offered $53K and 1.9% for 72 months.

I haven’t messed with ours yet, but the second row “bench” is split into 3 sections and I’m almost certain you can pull the middle section to make 2 captain chairs.

So how did you end up finding the one you bought?  There isn’t much I’d like to do less than going to a bunch of dealers. Much rather be able to narrow it down and go to one or two. 

[RyanB]

@vaporbluebu, your Ex is 4x4 correct?  Searching I can find some less expensive ones that are not. 

This Yukon looks interesting. Priced more than I want to spend (I’m notorious for budget creep) but you get a lot for the $$$. 

http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/1f01e235

[spikew919]

On 7/31/2019 at 9:04 PM, snowmanwithahat said:

Also for what it's worth, my neighbor pulls a bumper-pull travel trailer at 36' with a weight distribution hitch with a Navigator L, air suspension, ecoboost HO (same as the raptor) and the 8 speed. It's a MONSTER.

It handles the trailer in a way you'd expect a 3/4 ton truck to do so. It actually has the pulling power to probably outrun my 2500 Cummins to the speed limit on an on-ramp with the same load. She looked long and hard for that combo in the used market and had to go from Michigan to Texas to get it, but swears it was worth it.

Better get your cummins to the shop if that’s true. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[vaporbluebu]

11 hours ago, RyanB said:

So how did you end up finding the one you bought?  There isn’t much I’d like to do less than going to a bunch of dealers. Much rather be able to narrow it down and go to one or two. 

Yes, mine is 4x4, but in Utah due to the snow it’s almost impossible to find 2x4’s here. No dealer carries them so it makes the search easy.

To find mine I went to a large dealership with a lot of inventory in SLC and told the salesman I was just killing some time and was not interested in a new car. I walked the lot and found the car with options I wanted (and didn’t want) and took a picture of the sticker. Then I started calling dealerships, rather than going in and wasting half a day, told them exactly what I was looking for and what price they would sell it for. Found a dealership close to me that had what I wanted and was close on price to the bigger dealers in SLC and went in and did the final negotiation with them. But everyone was close, offering roughly $15k off sticker price.

Edited August 2, 2019 by vaporbluebu