Amp direct wired to battery, draining batteries

[Raimie]

Bear with me...I am a mechanical engineer who knows next to nothing about electronics...

18 T22 with sound pack one. 5 Channel JL Amp and wetsounds sub added to system by my dealer.

Last year I always left my battery switch on 1+2. This year, if I do that, both batteries are completely dead in 5-6 days. While troubleshooting, I noticed that with the battery switch off, the wire that runs from the amp directly to the smaller terminal on battery 2 was sparking. Again, this is with the battery switch off, key off, radio off etc.. So, the amp has to be draining my batteries, but how? Could something have been bummed on a switch or something?

This is my amp: M700/5-KJL Audio Refurbished M700/5: 5 Ch. Class D Marine System Amplifier 700 W

 

[IXFE]

2 hours ago, Raimie said:

Bear with me...I am a mechanical engineer who knows next to nothing about electronics...

18 T22 with sound pack one. 5 Channel JL Amp and wetsounds sub added to system by my dealer.

Last year I always left my battery switch on 1+2. This year, if I do that, both batteries are completely dead in 5-6 days. While troubleshooting, I noticed that with the battery switch off, the wire that runs from the amp directly to the smaller terminal on battery 2 was sparking. Again, this is with the battery switch off, key off, radio off etc.. So, the amp has to be draining my batteries, but how? Could something have been bummed on a switch or something?

This is my amp: M700/5-KJL Audio Refurbished M700/5: 5 Ch. Class D Marine System Amplifier 700 W

 

I can’t speak to the apparent power draw on your batteries, but I will say this...

If it was my boat I would remove the amp’s power cable from the battery and instead hook it up to the common post on the back side of the battery switch. That’s the post that’s in the 9:00 position (as pictured below, see my blue amp cable).

This way when the switch is powered off, the amps will get ZERO power. 

[shawndoggy]

the "wire is sparking?"  that's (a) not normal at all and (b) pretty scary on a boat.  There are several reasons it could be happening but none of them are good.  I think I'd disconnect the wire and get your dealer out to fix their install.

[IXFE]

@Raimie, and when the Doggy says “fix their install” that’s code for...

”Do the thing that IXFE posted which he learned from me in the first place...”

[shawndoggy]

it should be run to the switch for sure, but even direct wired to the battery it shouldn't be sparking.  something is shorting or is hooked up wrong.  car amps are direct wired to the battery as a matter of course, so that's not unheard of.  But my car amp wire isn't throwing sparks when the car is off either.

[Stevo]

Could be a poor connection or fitting that is causing the spark at the battery. But either way do the thing the @IXFE said to do that @shawndoggy taught him how to do.

[MLA]

9 hours ago, Raimie said:

I noticed that with the battery switch off, the wire that runs from the amp directly to the smaller terminal on battery 2 was sparking.

When does it spark? when its been disconnect it and you reconnect it, it sparks? This can be normal as its just the amp's internal CAP's charging up. This alone, would not indicate a constant draw or not. Any other sparking is due to a poor connection and need addressed quickly. 

[IXFE]

@Raimie my point was simply that pulling the power cable off the battery and running to the switch instead will do two things...

1) prevent future battery draw from your amp, and

2) eliminate the sparking at the battery (even if you never know why it was happening). 

Basically what I’m saying is... just start over and...

Edited June 28, 2019 by IXFE

[Stevo]

^^^that last post was just for him to use that Gif

Edited June 28, 2019 by Stevo

[IXFE]

3 minutes ago, Stevo said:

^^^that last post was just for him to use that Gif

And THIS post is just so I can use this one...

[Raimie]

10 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

the "wire is sparking?"  that's (a) not normal at all and (b) pretty scary on a boat.  There are several reasons it could be happening but none of them are good.  I think I'd disconnect the wire and get your dealer out to fix their install.

What I mean is if it's disconnected from the battery and you tap it on the terminal, it arcs. Maybe that is normal, but I was thinking that was indicating a power draw.

[shawndoggy]

Just now, Raimie said:

What I mean is if it's disconnected from the battery and you tap it on the terminal, it arcs. Maybe that is normal, but I was thinking that was indicating a power draw.

oh no, that's 100% normal.

[Raimie]

11 hours ago, IXFE said:

I can’t speak to the apparent power draw on your batteries, but I will say this...

If it was my boat I would remove the amp’s power cable from the battery and instead hook it up to the common post on the back side of the battery switch. That’s the post that’s in the 9:00 position (as pictured below, see my blue amp cable).

This way when the switch is powered off, the amps will get ZERO power. 

This is perfect, thanks @IXFE. This looks like something I can manage without electrocuting myself, so I'll try it this weekend and report back!

[Raimie]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

oh no, that's 100% normal.

But... that means that it might not be my issue then

Either way I will run it the way IXFE stated and see what happens.

[shawndoggy]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

oh no, that's 100% normal.

if what you mean is that you are physically disconnecting the wire (i.e. unbolting it from the battery terminal) and then tapping the ring terminal from the amp power wire on the positive battery post?

It's normal for a quick spark on hookup if you are hooking up directly to the battery.

[Raimie]

3 hours ago, IXFE said:

@Raimie my point was simply that pulling the power cable off the battery and running to the switch instead will do two things...

1) prevent future battery draw from your amp, and

2) eliminate the sparking at the battery (even if you never know why it was happening). 

Basically what I’m saying is... just start over and...

 

So, does the neutral cable stay direct wired to the battery or does that need to move also?

[IXFE]

1 minute ago, Raimie said:

So, does the neutral cable stay direct wired to the battery or does that need to move also?

Ground wire stays on the battery. 

[Raimie]

Thanks for the help everyone. I will move the cable to the switch this weekend.

So, are you guys turning your battery switch off everyday/weekend? I used to always have it on and never had an issue... was that just luck?

Anyone know if the bilge pump works if the battery switch is off?

[IXFE]

4 minutes ago, Raimie said:

Thanks for the help everyone. I will move the cable to the switch this weekend.

So, are you guys turning your battery switch off everyday/weekend? I used to always have it on and never had an issue... was that just luck?

Anyone know if the bilge pump works if the battery switch is off?

We always turn on/off each trip out. Peace of mind that nothing is drawing my battery down. 

Bilge pump should be direct wired to battery so it still works in the event of emergency 

[shawndoggy]

3 minutes ago, Raimie said:

Thanks for the help everyone. I will move the cable to the switch this weekend.

So, are you guys turning your battery switch off everyday/weekend? I used to always have it on and never had an issue... was that just luck?

Anyone know if the bilge pump works if the battery switch is off?

the auto bilge should work with the switch off.  If it doesn't it's wired wrong (and an easy fix).

We always turn our switch off at the end of the day.  Learned the hard way one time when we arrived at the ramp and the battery was dead because we'd inadvertently left a ballast pump running.  Plus now I plug into a shore charger, so I want to isolate the batteries from combining on my ACR (non-factory battery switch).

[solorex]

Is the remote wire for the amps hooked up correctly?  Perhaps your amps are not turning off.  I run a single battery, amps directly connected (yes they will spark when touched to the terminal), but I have no draws in my system can leave connected all the time and no issues.

[Raimie]

11 minutes ago, solorex said:

Is the remote wire for the amps hooked up correctly?  Perhaps your amps are not turning off.  I run a single battery, amps directly connected (yes they will spark when touched to the terminal), but I have no draws in my system can leave connected all the time and no issues.

No idea. I had my dealer install it. I did download the amp manual and will try to look at this as well. The light on the amp does go out when the ignition is turned off, however.

[ahopkins22LSV]

@Raimie it looks like the bilge pump wires are on the left hand battery in the picture. Just verify that there is two smaller positive red wires there. I think they are labeled too.

[shawndoggy]

11 minutes ago, Raimie said:

No idea. I had my dealer install it. I did download the amp manual and will try to look at this as well. The light on the amp does go out when the ignition is turned off, however.

HU turns off with ignition too?  You could get that fixed as well (grrr pet peive of mine to reset the stereo everytime I key off to pick up a rider).

[Raimie]

2 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

HU turns off with ignition too?  You could get that fixed as well (grrr pet peive of mine to reset the stereo everytime I key off to pick up a rider).

Now that I'm thinking about that, it will stay on with the key off. If the key is off and I hold down the HU power button to shut it off, the light on the amp will also go off.