Issues w. '07 Response at Boat Test

[jsaxton]

There is some rumor floating around that the '07 Response is having difficulty passing the AWSA test for speed at the Boat Test. Does anyone out there have any substantiated information?

[king_kong]

There is some rumor floating around that the '07 Response is having difficulty passing the AWSA test for speed at the Boat Test. Does anyone out there have any substantiated information?

like is it going to fast or to slow?

[edgeski1]

that HAS to be false,

These new ones FEEL way faster then the predecessor

[edwin]

Have read the same info, no idea if it's true or not.

[Toby]

im guessing it will be prop related. each year there are multiple prop/motor/drivetrain (in antiques anyway) that are acceptable and must be one of the combinations in any boat to tow tourneys. Most likely to be less options i guess. interesting though. time will tell.

Could be barefoot related speed too, something malibu would not have as higher priority on with the lxi.

[skisix@38]

Yeah, I'm reading the same info and probably from the same sources that you guys are. Nothing substantiated though. These test are being performed at seal level, if they are having problems there they will really suck at alititude. Remeber the Maliboo thread that he said he was going to bring the boat out for a few of us to try and compare with my 03 RLXi? That never happened and I believe it was because the comparision wouldn't have gone well for the new boat on the block- too bad.

All in all though, as a tournament skier I'll take whatever boat I get, I hope I like this new one as well as my boat and as well as I like the CC196 and MC197.

My prediction is that we will all start hearing things about it when they get the ECM figured out and get a prop that matches the new hull. When that happens lots of people will come out for the boat and stand behind it. It's probably just fine right now for the indescriment user and big lake open water guy, as can bee seen by Edgeski and some of the people he has shown the boat to but, for the shortline skiers and course skiers we havent' heard very much if anything.

[edwin]

I was offered a test drive yesterday in an 07 RLXi but they won't have one till the end of Dec.

[skisix@38]

I was offered a test drive yesterday in an 07 RLXi but they won't have one till the end of Dec.

So, would that be normal? Does your dealer normally not get new boats until Dec.?

[edwin]

The comment was made that they just placed their first order for 07's last week. No idea when they normally drop their first orders for the model year. The sales guy did mention that during the buying season, he can sell 2 runabouts a week vs maybe 1 Malibu a month. At that rate, they'd be sitting on all the 07 inventory till the Feb boat show...might as well not have the carrying cost.

[maliboo]

MC pulled there boat out of the test completely and won't test until December.

The boat failed the jump execeleration test. Don't know what that is exactly but, it only failed one of the tests. I guess the jump execeleration and speed holding is the very toughest to get through from what I have heard. Its not over yet, they will get through it. I am fairly confident that USA Wasterski would like the worlds largest inboard manufacturer to continue to be a player in the tournament scene.

Remeber the Maliboo thread that he said he was going to bring the boat out for a few of us to try and compare with my 03 RLXi? That never happened and I believe it was because the comparision wouldn't have gone well for the new boat on the block- too bad.

I was going to bring the boat when I heard it was on its way. It wasn't my call when the boat was damaged. Dealers boat = Dealers call. You would not have liked the Precision Pro at Cottonwood, it takes alot longer to settle into speed then Perfect Pass. At Sweet Water it was fine. Ask your buddies in Pueblo how it skied, they got to try it.

Dwayne

[Toby]

MC pulled there boat out of the test completely and won't test until December.

Dwayne

wow thats bad! they have a reputation for being a bit ordinary to jump behind dont they? Except for the nightmare

so where is this source? on the net somewhere?

[SGY]

MC pulled there boat out of the test completely and won't test until December.

The boat failed the jump execeleration test. Don't know what that is exactly but, it only failed one of the tests. I guess the jump execeleration and speed holding is the very toughest to get through from what I have heard. Its not over yet, they will get through it. I am fairly confident that USA Wasterski would like the worlds largest inboard manufacturer to continue to be a player in the tournament scene.

Dwayne

Followup on this comment Dwayne. Are you saying that AWSA might bend or modify the rules? Have they done this before? Nonetheless, unless the qualifying rules are arbitrary, I'd think Malibu would want it the other way around. Being the largest manufacturer of inboards, Malibu would want to pass all tests with flying colors, not given a "pass" because AWSA needs Bu's at tourneys.

Dwayne, I was at Castle Rock Marine on Saturday. Did you see they picked up Centurion? They even had a T5 there. No interest on their part or Centurion's part to be part of the tournament scene, however. Maybe this sentiment gives credence to your comment--that the manufacturers are wagging the dog.

Edited October 16, 2006 by SGY

[maliboo]

Followup on this comment Dwayne. Are you saying that AWSA might bend or modify the rules? Have they done this before? Nonetheless, unless the qualifying rules are arbitrary, I'd think Malibu would want it the other way around. Being the largest manufacturer of inboards, Malibu would want to pass all tests with flying colors, not given a "pass" because AWSA needs Bu's at tourneys.

Dwayne, I was at Castle Rock Marine on Saturday. Did you see they picked up Centurion? They even had a T5 there. No interest on their part or Centurion's part to be part of the tournament scene, however. Maybe this sentiment gives credence to your comment--that the manufacturers are wagging the dog.

AWSA will not bend the rules. They will allow retesting of boats for specific issues, always have. The exceleration tests are always the hardest part to pass. These days, boats are not built for three event only! They are bigger and heavier than they were years ago.

Infinity/Svara and Elan are perfect examples of what happens when you try to built specific boats for three eventors, there gone!!! CC is seeing there sales numbers drop every year while Malibu and MC still stay strong. Bigger boats are here to stay and AWSA needs to change, amoung other things, there guide lines for tow boat exceleration.

Dwayne

[VinRLX]

Bigger boats are here to stay and AWSA needs to change, amoung other things, there guide lines for tow boat exceleration.

Or the manufacturers need to ensure that the hull/power combination of the larger boats can accelerate the way we like them to.

[Tom Sawyer]

Bigger boats are here to stay and AWSA needs to change, amoung other things, there guide lines for tow boat exceleration.

Or the manufacturers need to ensure that the hull/power combination of the larger boats can accelerate the way we like them to.

Exactly.

If the boat can't pass the test, then change the test?....WTF?

Doesn't sound like the new Lxi will be much of a footn boat.

[BillFooter]

With all of the manufacturers concentrating their sales effort to big ol' bathtubs for wakeboard, I would not be surprised if they really give a rats a$$ if they pass AWSA three event ski test. Let's face reality. Our nice little boats that make small wakes for slalom and barefoot are going by the wayside. Malibu & MC have smaller boats that will pass AWSA, but they want to submit BIGGER boats that they think will sell in larger quantity. This is not about Quality of wake anymore but is about Quantity Sold.

[HOskier313]

Bigger boats are here to stay and AWSA needs to change, amoung other things, there guide lines for tow boat exceleration.

Or the manufacturers need to ensure that the hull/power combination of the larger boats can accelerate the way we like them to.

Exactly.

If the boat can't pass the test, then change the test?....WTF?

Doesn't sound like the new Lxi will be much of a footn boat.

I don't know if I agree with that...

If it's true that the jump test was the one that failed, my guess it's during the cut of the jumper headed into the ramp (triggered by the PerfectPass switch). This requires an immediate short burst of acceleration (likely less than 1-1.5 seconds), something I would assume barefooters would not need

[skisix@38]

MC pulled there boat out of the test completely and won't test until December.

The boat failed the jump execeleration test. Don't know what that is exactly but, it only failed one of the tests. I guess the jump execeleration and speed holding is the very toughest to get through from what I have heard. Its not over yet, they will get through it. I am fairly confident that USA Wasterski would like the worlds largest inboard manufacturer to continue to be a player in the tournament scene.

Dwayne

I'm not hearing the same things you are Dwayne. I'll post when I get more confirmation. The good folks in Pueblo don't apply the boats the same way we do..... So, asking them how it works wouldn't really be the same thing as trying it for myself.

[HOskier313]

With all of the manufacturers concentrating their sales effort to big ol' bathtubs for wakeboard, I would not be surprised if they really give a rats a$$ if they pass AWSA three event ski test. Let's face reality. Our nice little boats that make small wakes for slalom and barefoot are going by the wayside. Malibu & MC have smaller boats that will pass AWSA, but they want to submit BIGGER boats that they think will sell in larger quantity. This is not about Quality of wake anymore but is about Quantity Sold.

Malibu, MC, and CC all have to PAY to have their boats approved. These three boat companies sponsor the majority of AWSA tournaments. Without their sponsorship, many of these tournaments would not exist (see Malibu Open, The Masters, Mastercraft Pro Champs. to mention the big 3.) This doesn't include the nationals, The Big Dawg series, etc. Without these 3 companies keeping the AWSA tournaments running year and year out, the question is.....

Do the Big 3 need the AWSA approval or does the AWSA NEED these boats to be approved?

[SGY]

With all of the manufacturers concentrating their sales effort to big ol' bathtubs for wakeboard, I would not be surprised if they really give a rats a$$ if they pass AWSA three event ski test. Let's face reality. Our nice little boats that make small wakes for slalom and barefoot are going by the wayside. Malibu & MC have smaller boats that will pass AWSA, but they want to submit BIGGER boats that they think will sell in larger quantity. This is not about Quality of wake anymore but is about Quantity Sold.

Malibu, MC, and CC all have to PAY to have their boats approved. These three boat companies sponsor the majority of AWSA tournaments. Without their sponsorship, many of these tournaments would not exist (see Malibu Open, The Masters, Mastercraft Pro Champs. to mention the big 3.) This doesn't include the nationals, The Big Dawg series, etc. Without these 3 companies keeping the AWSA tournaments running year and year out, the question is.....

Do the Big 3 need the AWSA approval or does the AWSA NEED these boats to be approved?

This is my point. AWSA, in the perfect world, needs to stay independent from the manufacturer. When a sanctioning body is influenced by a manufacturer, competition suffers.

[Trentster]

Politics, politics, politics- USA Waterski doesn't make a boat. They would certify a Bayliner if that was the industry standard. I think they really try to get the boats the way they want them without budging on their standards, but if it becomes an issue and boats are not going to pass- they will modify the standards. We are already skiing at the absolute limits. I think they should make it interesting! Hell... fill the tanks on a 247, widen the course, and see if Parrish can ski 28 off at 36 miles per hour! Just kidding!

BTW- I now have my paws on an Anniversary Response LXi. If anyone wanted to make the trip to Burley, Idaho on a Saturday in the next few weeks, I would be happy to take them out on a demo. Seems like nobody really knows what this boat is even like to ski behind. I'm pretty curious myself.

Edited October 16, 2006 by Trentster

[maliboo]

I knew I should have stayed out of this one. I will never learn.

AWSA would certify any boat that shows up and pays the money period, and its alot of money. Malibu is committed to the sport but, they have to sell boats. Little closed bow slalom tractors don't sell.

Exactly.

If the boat can't pass the test, then change the test?....WTF?

Doesn't sound like the new Lxi will be much of a footn boat.

They are not changing anything, just giving them a chance to retest to a standard that was set 25 years ago when 19', 80" beam boats were all they had. And no, the RLXi was never much of a footn boat with anything less than an LS1 or Hammerhead. This one will be the same. If you are looking for a footn boat they still make the Response.

This is not about Quality of wake anymore but is about Quantity Sold.

I think you will be surprised at the quality of this new boats wake. And yes, selling boats and making money is also important. This is not a charitable organization.

Greg what did you hear?

Dwayne

[BillFooter]

We keep reading that the wake on these "New" boats is just as good as the older smaller boats. I just don't buy that. A bigger and heavier boats displaces more water and makes a bigger wake. That just isn't what I want for barefooting. It now takes 400 HP to get the speed that we used to get with 285 HP.

[skisix@38]

I knew I should have stayed out of this one. I will never learn.

AWSA would certify any boat that shows up and pays the money period, and its alot of money. Malibu is committed to the sport but, they have to sell boats. Little closed bow slalom tractors don't sell.

Exactly.

If the boat can't pass the test, then change the test?....WTF?

Doesn't sound like the new Lxi will be much of a footn boat.

They are not changing anything, just giving them a chance to retest to a standard that was set 25 years ago when 19', 80" beam boats were all they had. And no, the RLXi was never much of a footn boat with anything less than an LS1 or Hammerhead. This one will be the same. If you are looking for a footn boat they still make the Response.

This is not about Quality of wake anymore but is about Quantity Sold.

I think you will be surprised at the quality of this new boats wake. And yes, selling boats and making money is also important. This is not a charitable organization.

Greg what did you hear?

Dwayne

I heard that they(Malibu) had some unfortunate circumstances that led to the boat that got tested not being properly prepared - it didn't have the prop they wanted on it and "all the latest stuff". And as it was, it failed by a very slight margin and when updated will pass easily.

Additionally, MC never was supposed to take part in this round of testing. They are scheduled, and have been all along to test in Dec. when their new 214 is ready for produciton. They have tested the new boats with the Cat system and have found the performance to be on par with the '06 boats.

Your above message confuses me Dwayne, who here is asking for a "little closed bow slalom tractor"? I think people are curious as to how the new boat stacks up to the old RLXi. The old RLXi is not by any stretch a "little closed bow tractor", it's a large, well performing, versatile family ski boat that does most things well and some little burdonsome things. like pull slalom skiers to records, very well!

And, while I agree that AWSA would probably pass any boat that came with a large enough check, I also believe that these tests provide some good feedback to mfgs about their "performance boats" ability to perform. And the old RLXi, with the same dimensions as the new boat seemingly passed all the standards that were set for the 19' boats with a 80" beam, boats last year. Based on my sources, the new boat will pass these antiquated standards easily too when configured correctly.

What's your beef with us or the AWSA? Aren't we the ones that go out and buy the baots? Aren't we the crowd who put "Malibu" stickers on our cars/trucks and provide free advertising for the company. And provide the company, free of charge, valuable feedback about their products that can be incorporated to build a higher quality product next year?