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bovhica

Beginning bow ballast mod.

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bovhica

I have begun to modify my bow seating area to maximize space for an under seat bow bag.  I have a 2011 Vride 21, so I'm not fortunate enough to have the mls bow hard tank.  After seeing how @kerpluxal had fabbed for his/her bow seating for a bag, I started something similar (not as clean or intricate) but it will definitely be servicable when complete.  I removed my center seat base, cut and fit a 3/4" piece of plywood with 4x4 support for play pin seating.  Placed my sac underneath and the seats back into place.  I'm satisfied with its function so far but need to give it a finish look, protect the wood from water with some type of sealant.  I was thinking about using "rhino liner" type of product if it will work on the wood because I have a couple gallons in my garage left over.  I also want to sand the edges of plywood and do something on the edges to protect where they meet my interior vinyl in case there is movement and potential rubbing.  Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated? Photo gallery of job in process below.

http://imgur.com/gallery/fvUUPqr

I've also ordered pumps and parts to complete my entire ballast setup, so all bags will now have independent fill and drain on toggles.  While waiting on parts, I'd like to get this finished before my boat goes into dealer for GSA install late March.  Spring can't come soon enough!!

 

Edited by bovhica

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Sparky450

Great idea. Grab a router and put a 1/4 round on the edges and give it a quick sand. Did you use marine grade plywood?

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minnmarker

That's a really good idea.  Creative.  Thanks for posting.  If it works, perhaps change to HDPE material.

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bovhica
3 hours ago, Sparky450 said:

Great idea. Grab a router and put a 1/4 round on the edges and give it a quick sand. Did you use marine grade plywood?

Perfect idea.  I've got a neighbor with a router.  I didn't use marine grade, I was initially just doing this as a template because i had the wood at my house.  I have some extra rhino liner in my garage that I'm thinking about costing the wood with and see how long it holds up.  If it doesn't last, I have it as a template to start over. Only took about an hour to put together plus finishing time which I havent done yet.

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bovhica
1 hour ago, minnmarker said:

That's a really good idea.  Creative.  Thanks for posting.  If it works, perhaps change to HDPE material.

HDPE will definitely be used for the next one I make.  Thanks for the suggestion!  I'm going to see if I can get this one to last at least through this season.  With pumps, fittings and installing GSA in March. My wife will blow a gasket if I spend anymore money!....lol

Edited by bovhica

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Sparky450
2 minutes ago, bovhica said:

Perfect idea.  I've got a neighbor with a router.  I didn't use marine grade, I was initially just doing this as a template because i had the wood at my house.  I have some extra rhino liner in my garage that I'm thinking about costing the wood with and see how long it holds up.  If it doesn't last, I have it as a template to start over. Only took about an hour to put together plus finishing time which I havent done yet.

I would template it before it gets wet. My first ghetto gate templates were plywood and they didnt last long. I actually could not get an exact template. Either use a big piece of cardboard or paper that can be slid into the corner of the garage.

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bovhica
2 minutes ago, Sparky450 said:

I would template it before it gets wet. My first ghetto gate templates were plywood and they didnt last long. I actually could not get an exact template. Either use a big piece of cardboard or paper that can be slid into the corner of the garage.

This is why I post here!  I'm not smart enough to make things easy on myself!  Thanks for the tip!

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kerpluxal
On 2/17/2019 at 11:15 PM, bovhica said:

I have begun to modify my bow seating area to maximize space for an under seat bow bag.  I have a 2011 Vride 21, so I'm not fortunate enough to have the mls bow hard tank.  After seeing how @kerpluxal had fabbed for his/her bow seating for a bag, I started something similar (not as clean or intricate) but it will definitely be servicable when complete.  I removed my center seat base, cut and fit a 3/4" piece of plywood with 4x4 support for play pin seating.  Placed my sac underneath and the seats back into place.  I'm satisfied with its function so far but need to give it a finish look, protect the wood from water with some type of sealant.  I was thinking about using "rhino liner" type of product if it will work on the wood because I have a couple gallons in my garage left over.  I also want to sand the edges of plywood and do something on the edges to protect where they meet my interior vinyl in case there is movement and potential rubbing.  Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated? Photo gallery of job in process below.

http://imgur.com/gallery/fvUUPqr

I've also ordered pumps and parts to complete my entire ballast setup, so all bags will now have independent fill and drain on toggles.  While waiting on parts, I'd like to get this finished before my boat goes into dealer for GSA install late March.  Spring can't come soon enough!!

As an FYI, I used a triangle bag with out the center support. Have not had any issues with people in front without it and that results in a 1000 lb ballast instead of 750. The rhino liner should work fine as this was what I was going to do, but ended up with red guard for the same reasons (leftover from remodel project in house ;) ). I plan on updating to HPDE later and building a wall so you can not see the bag under the seats. 

Thank you for the reference :) 

 

 

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minnmarker
20 hours ago, bovhica said:

HDPE will definitely be used for the next one I make.  Thanks for the suggestion!  I'm going to see if I can get this one to last at least through this season.  With pumps, fittings and installing GSA in March. My wife will blow a gasket if I spend anymore money!....lol

Not sure if you have Menards near you but they stock 4x8x3/8 sheets of HDPE for $80.  Amazon has 2x4x1/2 textured for the same.  You should be able to slip that under your wife's radar!

I would not bother with the wood version just to have it de-laminate and/or screw up your upholstery.

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bovhica
4 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

As an FYI, I used a triangle bag with out the center support. Have not had any issues with people in front without it and that results in a 1000 lb ballast instead of 750. The rhino liner should work fine as this was what I was going to do, but ended up with red guard for the same reasons (leftover from remodel project in house ;) ). I plan on updating to HPDE later and building a wall so you can not see the bag under the seats. 

Thank you for the reference :) 

 

 

I like the idea of building the wall.  Probably will do that as well when I upgrade to hdpe. I do have 500 lbs of lead to supplement the 750 bag.  This project and design was installed around my current ballast.  I really didnt want to purchase a different bag.  Thanks for sharing your design!

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bovhica
3 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Not sure if you have Menards near you but they stock 4x8x3/8 sheets of HDPE for $80.  Amazon has 2x4x1/2 textured for the same.  You should be able to slip that under your wife's radar!

I would not bother with the wood version just to have it de-laminate and/or screw up your upholstery.

I've been looking at hdpe and if I can get it done in the next couple months,  probably be worth it in the long run.  I think I will wait another month or so to allow the CEO to calm down.

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kerpluxal
9 minutes ago, bovhica said:

I like the idea of building the wall.  Probably will do that as well when I upgrade to hdpe. I do have 500 lbs of lead to supplement the 750 bag.  This project and design was installed around my current ballast.  I really didnt want to purchase a different bag.  Thanks for sharing your design!

are you allowing the front seats to move up when filling to max?

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bovhica

@kerpluxalI'm going to fill until they begin to move then slightly drain and use the lead for the rest to start.  I will play with it on the water and see what works best.

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kerpluxal
20 minutes ago, bovhica said:

@kerpluxalI'm going to fill until they begin to move then slightly drain and use the lead for the rest to start.  I will play with it on the water and see what works best.

You should be in prime spot with 500lbs of lead up there... I have no lead and run with ~900lbs of weight in front, 500 mid, to compensate for 2800lbs in rear plus people on a 23' boat. Post pics of the wave!!!

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bovhica
3 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

You should be in prime spot with 500lbs of lead up there... I have no lead and run with ~900lbs of weight in front, 500 mid, to compensate for 2800lbs in rear plus people on a 23' boat. Post pics of the wave!!!

I think so too.  I was running same weight as you except 750 bow (bag on top of seat) vs your 900.  My wave was solid and I was real close to 40/60 ratio, or so I thought, until I realized I was forgetting to calculate simulated wedge weight.  Wedge included actually put me at a 30/70 ratio when all ballast was full and my wife always complained that she couldn't sit up front. Rather than get a larger bag and/or add lead and still have an unhappy wife, I started searching the forums and came across your setup, so thanks again for posting!  I'm hoping to get around 350 to 400 in bag under seat and the 500 in lead.  Here are a couple pics of the wave before mod.  I will post after mod pics, but it will be at least a month or two.  Too cold up here!

http://imgur.com/gallery/TE3NIdb

http://imgur.com/gallery/iSEqDoo

On another note, I spoke with Ryan(?) at GSA and he said I wont need as much bow weight as I was running with their system.  Not sure what to believe, because that statement seems to contradict what others here have said.  Any thoughts?

Edited by bovhica

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bovhica
7 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Not sure if you have Menards near you but they stock 4x8x3/8 sheets of HDPE for $80.  Amazon has 2x4x1/2 textured for the same.  You should be able to slip that under your wife's radar!

I would not bother with the wood version just to have it de-laminate and/or screw up your upholstery.

No menards here, unfortunately.  I'd snag a piece or two today at that price.  When I go the hdpe route, I think I want it to be a one piece like the plywood so I would need a 4'x4' sheet at minimum so that menards deal would be great except for the $236 shipping cost....dammit.  I'll just keep looking and may have to bite the bullet on shipping later.

Edited by bovhica

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kerpluxal
15 hours ago, bovhica said:

I think so too.  I was running same weight as you except 750 bow (bag on top of seat) vs your 900.  My wave was solid and I was real close to 40/60 ratio, or so I thought, until I realized I was forgetting to calculate simulated wedge weight.  Wedge included actually put me at a 30/70 ratio when all ballast was full and my wife always complained that she couldn't sit up front. Rather than get a larger bag and/or add lead and still have an unhappy wife, I started searching the forums and came across your setup, so thanks again for posting!  I'm hoping to get around 350 to 400 in bag under seat and the 500 in lead.  Here are a couple pics of the wave before mod.  I will post after mod pics, but it will be at least a month or two.  Too cold up here!

http://imgur.com/gallery/TE3NIdb

http://imgur.com/gallery/iSEqDoo

On another note, I spoke with Ryan(?) at GSA and he said I wont need as much bow weight as I was running with their system.  Not sure what to believe, because that statement seems to contradict what others here have said.  Any thoughts?

Hmm... well this is a good topic... You have a floating wedge and mine is adjustable but...

  1. I use my wedge to adjust wave on fly... 
    1. Less wedge = longer wave but not as tall
    2. More wedge = taller wave but not as long
  2. Sometimes I don't use wedge at all when I have a large crew
    1. Then I move people or add ballast to front for longer wave but not as tall
    2. Move people to back or reduce ballast to front for taller wave but not as long.

Each person has a different wave they like to surf, front ballast can control length and height (especially since you don't have an adjustable wedge). So the more you have, the more adjust ability you have.

For my regular riders, I usually dump weight out of front (port side is more difficult to setup due to prop rotation.

I also add a slight list to the GSA system (300lbs under surfside coffin), as it enhances the lip (to me).

With you being on a 21ft boat, you might not need as much... but it imho it is better to have more just in case ;)

Your wave looks good thus far, would like to see a comparison after GSA.  

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browneye253
16 hours ago, bovhica said:

I think so too.  I was running same weight as you except 750 bow (bag on top of seat) vs your 900.  My wave was solid and I was real close to 40/60 ratio, or so I thought, until I realized I was forgetting to calculate simulated wedge weight.  Wedge included actually put me at a 30/70 ratio when all ballast was full and my wife always complained that she couldn't sit up front. Rather than get a larger bag and/or add lead and still have an unhappy wife, I started searching the forums and came across your setup, so thanks again for posting!  I'm hoping to get around 350 to 400 in bag under seat and the 500 in lead.  Here are a couple pics of the wave before mod.  I will post after mod pics, but it will be at least a month or two.  Too cold up here!

http://imgur.com/gallery/TE3NIdb

http://imgur.com/gallery/iSEqDoo

On another note, I spoke with Ryan(?) at GSA and he said I wont need as much bow weight as I was running with their system.  Not sure what to believe, because that statement seems to contradict what others here have said.  Any thoughts?

When I spoke to Ryan at a local boat show a few weeks ago his explanation for this was due to GSA providing a little bit of lift that a gate doesn't provide.  The lift helps bring the bow down some.  I've got a GSA setup sitting in my living room waiting on a warm day to install.  So I don't have any real-world experience just yet.

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bovhica
5 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

Hmm... well this is a good topic... You have a floating wedge and mine is adjustable but...

  1. I use my wedge to adjust wave on fly... 
    1. Less wedge = longer wave but not as tall
    2. More wedge = taller wave but not as long
  2. Sometimes I don't use wedge at all when I have a large crew
    1. Then I move people or add ballast to front for longer wave but not as tall
    2. Move people to back or reduce ballast to front for taller wave but not as long.

Each person has a different wave they like to surf, front ballast can control length and height (especially since you don't have an adjustable wedge). So the more you have, the more adjust ability you have.

For my regular riders, I usually dump weight out of front (port side is more difficult to setup due to prop rotation.

I also add a slight list to the GSA system (300lbs under surfside coffin), as it enhances the lip (to me).

With you being on a 21ft boat, you might not need as much... but it imho it is better to have more just in case ;)

Your wave looks good thus far, would like to see a comparison after GSA.  

Thanks for the info.  I, too, run a 300 under coffin for port wave with current wake shaper.  Sounds like I will just have to play with it a bit and see what works best. I also was told that gsa will have some adjustment to influence wave like the power wedge just not as precise or as big of range.

I will try to remember to post comparison pics for ya!

Edited by bovhica

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bovhica
3 hours ago, browneye253 said:

When I spoke to Ryan at a local boat show a few weeks ago his explanation for this was due to GSA providing a little bit of lift that a gate doesn't provide.  The lift helps bring the bow down some.  I've got a GSA setup sitting in my living room waiting on a warm day to install.  So I don't have any real-world experience just yet.

Ok...that makes sense.  Guess we will see actual world results for ourselves!

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kerpluxal
On 2/20/2019 at 11:00 AM, browneye253 said:

When I spoke to Ryan at a local boat show a few weeks ago his explanation for this was due to GSA providing a little bit of lift that a gate doesn't provide.  The lift helps bring the bow down some.  I've got a GSA setup sitting in my living room waiting on a warm day to install.  So I don't have any real-world experience just yet.

You are going to wonder how you never lived without it lol. 

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bovhica

Lead arrived and I've finished the seat base.  I didnt end up using a router on the edges.  Rather I used my electric sander to round the edges while sanding the piece. 

Updated photos of project.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Cn4mHlm

Edit:  Parts for ballast arrived and install in progress.  Hoses, pumps and bags connected.  Still need to run wire and install switches.

http://imgur.com/gallery/h7tAW9q

Edit: Install and mod complete!

http://imgur.com/gallery/Ucllqt5

Edited by bovhica

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