New video... 25 LSV vs. G23

[TallRedRider]

Despite the obvious bias, there is a lot of video where both boats can be seen together at the same time.   I am not sure what they were showing at the freeze frame, but the rest of the time it is obvious the tests were done about as simultaneous as you can get.  

[CJAY]

Who is making these videos?  If it's a malibu bias then why would they properly dial the G?  My buddies Gs wave is way better stock than the one in this video when we have it properly dialed

[TallRedRider]

8 minutes ago, CJAY said:

Who is making these videos?  If it's a malibu bias then why would they properly dial the G?  My buddies Gs wave is way better stock than the one in this video when we have it properly dialed

I think one explanation is that they needed the boats to be going the same speed for the video, and the G needs to go faster than the Malibu to get a better wave.  But I am not sure.  Earlier in the thread we covered that Malibu paid this promo video company to make it.   

[CJAY]

Just now, TallRedRider said:

I think one explanation is that they needed the boats to be going the same speed for the video, and the G needs to go faster than the Malibu to get a better wave.  But I am not sure.  Earlier in the thread we covered that Malibu paid this promo video company to make it.   

I think that actually is a sound explanation, much like my 25 LSV the G we use needs to me int he 11+ range.  I haven't driven or dialed a 2018+ 23 lsv, but my 2014 was good in the 10s.  I think these videos need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Different hulls and different needs to dial.  The G puts out a great surf wave when properly dialed

[ahopkins22LSV]

The point of the video is to show which is better with the factory setup. If I understood correctly there was no dialing with any of the boats. They used factory presets. 

[CJAY]

32 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

The point of the video is to show which is better with the factory setup. If I understood correctly there was no dialing with any of the boats. They used factory presets. 

The factory preset on the G is not that slow.  Anyone who really cares about the wave is far more concerned about the properly dialed version, not the out of the box.  it's a malibu propaganda video, nothing more nothing less

Edited February 12, 2019 by CJAY

[TenTwentyOne]

About the only thing you need to properly “Dial” a G23, is 200lbs of lead under the observer seat to balance it. After that, you activate the stock surf profile, and run 11.6-12.0mph.

it definitely likes higher surf speeds compared to the average.

[CJAY]

5 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

About the only thing you need to properly “Dial” a G23, is 200lbs of lead under the observer seat to balance it. After that, you activate the stock surf profile, and run 11.6-12.0mph.

it definitely likes higher surf speeds compared to the average.

We have played around with bags and weight, and we can get a really good surf wave with a small nose bag and a good amount of weight on the floor.  Lengthens the wave and lips it up.  We run about 11.8 normally

[ahopkins22LSV]

12 minutes ago, CJAY said:

We have played around with bags and weight, and we can get a really good surf wave with a small nose bag and a good amount of weight on the floor.  Lengthens the wave and lips it up.  We run about 11.8 normally

Aaaaaand the videos are proving you don’t need to do that with the Malibu’s they are really focusing on making the boat dialed in right from the factory. For someone who has owned multiple Malibu’s you’re awfully critical and most of the time it sounds like we are on teamtalk trying to discuss a Malibu...

[CJAY]

8 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Aaaaaand the videos are proving you don’t need to do that with the Malibu’s they are really focusing on making the boat dialed in right from the factory. For someone who has owned multiple Malibu’s you’re awfully critical and most of the time it sounds like we are on teamtalk trying to discuss a Malibu...

I'm critical of propaganda and fan boy bashing of other brands.  If we are going to be honest the G has a better wave and wake, at the proper speeds for it's hull, than just about any boat on the market, out of the box.  You don't need plug and plays it already has far more ballast stock than the malibu does, plus it's way heavier.  Bus need more weight to compete head to head.  Nothing wrong with it.  if you had a 25 out there running side by side with that 23 at sub 11mph speeds you could sell everyone on how much better the 23 surfs there also. BS is BS and these videos are BS, doesn't matter what brand it's from.   I'm not a brand loyalist, I'm lucky enough to enjoy many different brands, very few of my Friends have the same brand or boat.  I stick to malibu because I like how much you can change and dial their wakes and waves with their hulls.  When that changes I will change boat brands.  

Edited February 12, 2019 by CJAY

[ahopkins22LSV]

24 minutes ago, CJAY said:

I'm critical of propaganda and fan boy bashing of other brands.  If we are going to be honest the G has a better wave and wake, at the proper speeds for it's hull, than just about any boat on the market, out of the box.  You don't need plug and plays it already has far more ballast stock than the malibu does, plus it's way heavier.  Bus need more weight to compete head to head.  Nothing wrong with it.  if you had a 25 out there running side by side with that 23 at sub 11mph speeds you could sell everyone on how much better the 23 surfs there also. BS is BS and these videos are BS, doesn't matter what brand it's from

I’ve surfed the 25 and G23 back to back. The 25 is better. The G wave has it beat on the lip but other than that, it is short and narrow. The 25 wave is longer and wider. It has just as much push but more area to actually surf. The G was setup by the owner of the boat and the 25 was setup by me. 11.2-11.4 on the 25 and if I recall correctly the G was at the same speed. Maybe a bit faster. A very good friend of mine who is a better surfer had the exact same review of mine and so have other people on here. 🤷🏽‍♂️

The video shows that man. It is biased, but there are facts in it that you are choosing to ignore. And what advertisement isn’t?! You must hate all companies then. They are all better than the others according to them. Last time I checked ford has never come out and said man, you know what, that new Silverado actually is better then our F150.

Edited February 12, 2019 by ahopkinsVTX

[CJAY]

13 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

I’ve surfed the 25 and G23 back to back. The 25 is better. The G wave has it beat on the limp but other than that, it is short and narrow. The 25 wave is longer and wider. It has just as much push but more area to actually surf. The G was setup by the owner of the boat and the 25 was setup by me. 11.2-11.4 on the 25 and if I recall correctly the G was at the same speed. Maybe a bit faster. A very good friend of mine who is a better surfer had the exact same review of mine and so have other people on here. 🤷🏽‍♂️

The video shows that man. It is biased, but there are facts in it that you are choosing to ignore. And what advertisement isn’t?! You must hate all companies then. They are all better than the others according to them. Last time I checked ford has never come out and said man, you know what, that new Silverado actually is better then our F150.

The 25 is better than the G for surfing, no argument there and I actually said it earlier, but this last video is on how the 23 out surfs the G. when they obviously are running both boats to the LSVs strengths and not the Gs. To be honest I haven't surfed a better wave than the 25LSV, though I do want to try centurion form all the hype I hear and see  

I don't buy advertising and would think everyone would see the bias, and not repost it to show that it means anything at all.   I'd like to see a video where an independent party compared both boats ran to their strengths out of the box.  That's informative, this is just another crap ad.  Even more so I'd like to see both run to their optimal wave dial.  I'm far more interested in their ceilings than their floors.  That being said the G23s floor is higher than the 23LSVs, no matter what some lame ad video says.  Who has the better ceiling is the better question and I'd lean 23 LSV

Edited February 12, 2019 by CJAY

[Hyperryd]

Wow, there won't be anything left of this dead horse for the glue factory to even use...

[ahopkins22LSV]

13 minutes ago, CJAY said:

The 25 is better than the G for surfing, no argument there and I actually said it earlier, but this last video is on how the 23 out surfs the G. when they obviously are running both boats to the LSVs strengths and not the Gs.  

I don't buy advertising and would think everyone would see the bias, and not repost it to show that it means anything at all.   I'd like to see a video where an independent party compared both boats ran to their strengths out of the box.  That's informative, this is just another crap ad.  Even more so I'd like to see both run to their optimal wave dial.  I'm far more interested in their ceilings than their floors.  That being said the G23s floor is higher than the 23LSVs, no matter what some lame a video says.  Who has the better ceiling is the better question and I'd lean 23 LSV

Fair enough, I haven’t surfed the latest 23 back to back with the G and I don’t have more then two or three sets on the new 23. I’d put it right up there though and I still feel it’s better due to the same reasons o stated above. I believe we were surfing at 11mph so it’s not like way below, we are talking tenths of a mph. Either way the video portrays the waves pretty accurately from my experience. 

@Hyperryd some things never change around here but at least we have this.

Edited February 12, 2019 by ahopkinsVTX

[CJAY]

1 minute ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Fair enough, I haven’t surfed the latest 23 back to back with the G and I don’t have more then two or three sets on the new 23. I’d put it right up there though and I still feel it’s better. I believe we were surfing at 11mph so it’s not like way below, we are talking tenths of a mph. Either way the video portrays the waves pretty accurately from my experience. 

@Hyperryd some things never change around here but at least we have this.

...and from mine it it doesn't do the G a bit of justice what so ever

[ahopkins22LSV]

13 minutes ago, CJAY said:

...and from mine it it doesn't do the G a bit of justice what so ever

Yet you said you haven’t surfed a new 23.... the latest you said you surfed is a 2014 which would have had power wedge 1. Power wedge 2 makes a huge difference and power wedge three is even better. Plus there have been additional tweaks to the whole boat. Like the batteries in the bow and more rear hard tank ballast. Your opinion isn’t valid as you aren’t even basing it off the boats they used in the video.  

Edited February 12, 2019 by ahopkinsVTX

[CJAY]

19 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Yet you said you haven’t surfed a new 23.... the latest you said you surfed is a 2014 which would have had power wedge 1. Power wedge 2 makes a huge difference and power wedge three is even better. Plus there have been additional tweaks to the whole boat. Like the batteries in the bow and more rear hard tank ballast. Your opinion isn’t valid as you aren’t even basing it off the boats they used in the video.  

That has to do with the G how?  

[ahopkins22LSV]

23 minutes ago, CJAY said:

That has to do with the G how?  

Lol... it doesn’t. It has to do with the statement you made that the 23 doesn’t compare to it. Yet you are comparing the G to a 5 year, two generation old LSV. 

[IXFE]

@CJAY

All boats were run with whatever the factory preset was. Maybe that’s not “optimal” for the G23, but most here would agree, it’s not great for the Malbus either. At 10.6 mph, I find the factory preset too slow. 

I still fail to see why watching Malibu surf wave videos on a Malibu forum gets people so wound up. The videos may not please the discerning forum crowd, but setting up boats to factory specs and taking measurements is certainly ONE valid way to compare waves and probably the best way to compare on a level playing field and without mixing in a bunch of variables. And as I said before, it is how most average buyers use these boats. the fact that the boats aren’t “dialed in” is kinda the hidden point of the videos that many seem to be missing... 

As to the ballast weight you brought up, again this seems comparable to me. A 23 or 25 LSV has something like 1750 lbs hard tank + 1100 PnP = 2850 lbs in total water ballast.  A G23 has 2850 in hard tank ballast. Both factory setups are roughly equal, they just get there a different ways.  

If you want an unbiased comparison using optimal setups, why don’t YOU produce them?  Seems you have access to a lot of boats and you seem to know the secret recipe on each. Make some videos, take some measurements, and return and report!

Edited February 12, 2019 by IXFE

[Five Cent Worth]

Although I can see how these video as can be perceived a bit biased, they are perfect for someone like our family.  We, and those we boat with (MC guys), are the +80% that surf / boat / tube these things stock (w/ PNP).  We aren't buying a boat that costs as much as it does to have to put lead and extra ballast bags on the seats and dial it in.  It would be near comical for our family that when we would take another family out that they would need to work around an extra ballast bag.  Comparing the capability out of the box we certainly find very informative.  

[CJAY]

15 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Lol... it doesn’t. It has to do with the statement you made that the 23 doesn’t compare to it. Yet you are comparing the G to a 5 year, two generation old LSV. 

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?  I never said the 23 doesn't compare to it, I said out of the box the 23 isn't as good, but has a higher ceiling.   The 14 isn't 2 builds back, it's one build back.  

[ahopkins22LSV]

43 minutes ago, CJAY said:

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?  I never said the 23 doesn't compare to it, I said out of the box the 23 isn't as good, but has a higher ceiling.   The 14 isn't 2 builds back, it's one build back.  

You are right, one generation with multiple major upgrades within the generation. Your claim that the wave portrayed by the 23 LSV in the video isn't as good as good out of the box is inaccurate at best, as you said yourself that the latest 23 lsv you have been on is a 2014. the 2019 and 2014 surf way different.

20 hours ago, CJAY said:

Who is making these videos?  If it's a malibu bias then why would they properly dial the G?  My buddies Gs wave is way better stock than the one in this video when we have it properly dialed

In terms of reading, I follow you clearly. Your claim here is your buddies G is stock.

19 hours ago, CJAY said:

I think that actually is a sound explanation, much like my 25 LSV the G we use needs to me int he 11+ range.  I haven't driven or dialed a 2018+ 23 lsv, but my 2014 was good in the 10s.  I think these videos need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Different hulls and different needs to dial.  The G puts out a great surf wave when properly dialed

You claim here that is great when it is properly dialed.... as in not stock.

18 hours ago, CJAY said:

We have played around with bags and weight, and we can get a really good surf wave with a small nose bag and a good amount of weight on the floor.  Lengthens the wave and lips it up.  We run about 11.8 normally

Bow weight, and main floor weight = Stock?  

17 hours ago, CJAY said:

I'm critical of propaganda and fan boy bashing of other brands.  If we are going to be honest the G has a better wave and wake, at the proper speeds for it's hull, than just about any boat on the market, out of the box.  You don't need plug and plays it already has far more ballast stock than the malibu does, plus it's way heavier.  Bus need more weight to compete head to head.  Nothing wrong with it.  if you had a 25 out there running side by side with that 23 at sub 11mph speeds you could sell everyone on how much better the 23 surfs there also. BS is BS and these videos are BS, doesn't matter what brand it's from.   I'm not a brand loyalist, I'm lucky enough to enjoy many different brands, very few of my Friends have the same brand or boat.  I stick to malibu because I like how much you can change and dial their wakes and waves with their hulls.  When that changes I will change boat brands.  

Ummmmmmmm, please see your quote above... 

Clearly you aren't going to accept the fact that these videos are here to compare the factory setup/preset options. If you are going to compare dialed boat then everyone is going to be different. The only comparison you can make is the factory setup. I agree with @IXFE please use your wealth of boat availability and do your own "dialed" test if you can't accept the baseline for these videos.

[Chrisjjbrown]

20 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

You are right, one generation with multiple major upgrades within the generation. Your claim that the wave portrayed by the 23 LSV in the video isn't as good as good out of the box is inaccurate at best, as you said yourself that the latest 23 lsv you have been on is a 2014. the 2019 and 2014 surf way different.

In terms of reading, I follow you clearly. Your claim here is your buddies G is stock.

You claim here that is great when it is properly dialed.... as in not stock.

Bow weight, and main floor weight = Stock?  

Ummmmmmmm, please see your quote above... 

Clearly you aren't going to accept the fact that these videos are here to compare the factory setup/preset options. If you are going to compare dialed boat then everyone is going to be different. The only comparison you can make is the factory setup. I agree with @IXFE please use your wealth of boat availability and do your own "dialed" test if you can't accept the baseline for these videos.

Well,

 I am convinced Malibu's stock wave are clearly superior to the Nautiques stock wave in every category....the video proves it...how dare anyone challenge it. 

 

One question on wave length, In the 23 vs 23 video it looks like they measured it by when the rider lost the wave....hmmm ,   two different riders.....Maybe one is better than the other.   Also the G appeared to be riding in chop on the measurement of that wave, where as the Malibu was riding in glass.  That effects how far back you can get for sure....Just a thought

Edited February 13, 2019 by Chrisjjbrown

[TallRedRider]

49 minutes ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

Well,

 I am convinced Malibu's stock wave are clearly superior to the Nautiques stock wave in every category....the video proves it...how dare anyone challenge it. 

 

One question on wave length, In the 23 vs 23 video it looks like they measured it by when the rider lost the wave....hmmm ,   two different riders.....Maybe one is better than the other.   Also the G appeared to be riding in chop on the measurement of that wave, where as the Malibu was riding in glass.  That effects how far back you can get for sure....Just a thought

I don't see it that way.  How is the wave impacted by 5 inch chop?  It does not affect the running attitude and the boat flattens it all out by the time it gets to the wave.  the riding surface is unaffected.  

[ahopkins22LSV]

I think it was stated earlier in this thread that measurements were not based on the rider.

Edited February 13, 2019 by ahopkinsVTX