New video... 25 LSV vs. G23

[IXFE]

@TenTwentyOne..... doesn’t surprise me at all. Just a different chapter in the same old book. 

What should have been some cool new Malibu content on a Malibu enthusiast forum turned into nothing more than fresh meat for a bunch of spiteful former owners and current self loathing owners.  The only thing that surprises me is I didn’t see this coming as I excitedly posted this while walking to dinner last night along the strip.  Reminds me why I rarely post anymore. Anyway...

Gotta get to the airport. Long work day ahead for me. Wishing a great weekend to theMalibuhatercrew.  Flame on...

[ndahlberg12]

This thread proves my point , Winter needs to be over. To much negativity guys/gals. Sheesh.

This place is getting tough to read sometimes.

[23LSVOwner]

8 hours ago, Lees23 said:

I would say that “objective” is probably not the best word here, “biased” might be more accurate.  

Has pnp ever been a factory option?  I know the plumbing is, but have to ever been able to get bags shipped from the factory?  It is my understanding they PNP bags have never been included in the build process because it would significantly reduce capacity ratings. 

Since 2017, maybe 2018 the factory capacity rating on Malibu and Axis boats includes the largest recommended PnP bags.

 

No idea if it is the same with Nautique.

[Lees23]

9 minutes ago, 23LSVOwner said:

Since 2017, maybe 2018 the factory capacity rating on Malibu and Axis boats includes the largest recommended PnP bags.

 

No idea if it is the same with Nautique.

Where is the largest reccomended PNP bags listed?

[Peebalz]

@IXFE Thanks for posting this.  Comparison data aside, i have always wondered which Malibu boats make the best wave!  I watched all the videos and loved seeing how long and high the waves were with a "perfect setup".  thanks for posting!

[Hyperryd]

In my opinion, I think for all of the tests besides the G, They should have gone without any PNP on either boat. One of the biggest strengths of the Surfgates is the ability to put up more wave with less weight than a tab system. Bone stock Surfgates will typically put up a much better wave than a tab system. It would have made the apples to apples comparison much simpler. Once enough PNP and/or lead is added the gap closes so run what you brung.

Against the G go ahead and add PNP and call it out. The G carries a lot of under floor ballast that they charge stupid money for. The cost of PNP is minimal in comparison. Make it clear that you can get a bigger, beautiful boat with comparable wave for less. 

The problem with marketing guys is they don’t really know boats so they will slant when a slant isn’t needed. 

Still a great marketing tool though. 90% of the showroom boat shoppers won't ask questions and take it at face value, so mission accomplished. 

[granddaddy55]

10 hours ago, IXFE said:

Seems pretty clear to me... 

“ If Plug N Play was an available option and installed at the factory, then the recommended sacks where connected and utilized.”

What are the recommended sacks?  450’s, I think..??

I honestly don’t see how this isn’t fair.  Think about it this way... how do the majority of buyers use these boats?  Every Malibu ships with PnP plumbing and is delivered with factory recommended bags.  What’s that make the total... something like 2800 lbs, right?  That’s how these boats are used. Every G23 is delivered with close to about the same in hard tank ballast. Nautique owners are all very vocal about it doesn’t need bags and the factory doesn’t make it possible.  That’s how those boats are used. In other words, very similar weight and representative of how these boats used by the majority of buyers. So as I see it... this is as close to a real world test as your gonna get.  

As for G23 vs 25 LSV... so your really think the G25 would fare better?  Everybody knows the G23 is the best surf boat in the Nautique line up. Plus, the G23 and 25 LSV weigh similar and cost similar.  Buyers don’t ONLY fixate on length. 

G25 is very inefficient in wave production compared to G23, in other words it’s the same wave or less in a bigger boat cause only stock “and some lead” in each that I think was in the bow , Demoed both in same day , neither compared well to an m235 with partial filled 1000 lb bow sac with 450’s in locker

now ask me how I like the speed of G transfers compared to surfgate transfers, no comparison, G wins hands down

afyer hearing you snd @The Hulk talk about your 25’s and after the recent redo that’s one sexy boat I would really like to try for a day , love surfing long strong waves 

Edited February 1, 2019 by granddaddy55

[23LSVOwner]

1 hour ago, Lees23 said:

Where is the largest reccomended PNP bags listed?

It's on their dealer portal.

 

Not sure if they are in the owners manuals or not.

[23LSVOwner]

6 minutes ago, 23LSVOwner said:

It's on their dealer portal.

 

Not sure if they are in the owners manuals or not.

 

 

[Slayer]

I think the video, regardless of bias, is interesting.  I rather enjoy things like this.  

[Lees23]

38 minutes ago, 23LSVOwner said:

 

 

Interesting. Thanks!

[TenTwentyOne]

@IXFE Apologies, maybe the text from my new local dealer that included a link to the vids, and a statement about how it proves Bu waves are at least 2x better than any of their competitors...... jaded my view of your post.

I just don’t often see you jump on the bandwagon with that sort of marketing.

Or maybe I was also jealous that you were in Vegas!!

[NWBU]

If the goal was to compare boats normally equipped, at least for the majority of users, I don't follow how running any of the boats without their suggested bags/PNP would make a better comparison. It might show more inherent differences between the hulls, but in configurations you don't see out on the water. Or at least shouldn't see. We already get enough threads each year with buyers remorse on spending $100K and not being able to surf more than a few feet off the deck, when the solution is $400-500 of PNP bags.

Seems like a comparison like that would be ripped apart even more quickly than this one as being out of touch. This was a Malibu supported study so other brands will already have their own rebuttals. However, any no bag/PNP comparisons would just be a softball to their competitors to say Malibu is a brand out of touch with the surf craze.

I'm biased to the BUs, but I also love the G23 wave, so you have to demo any of these boats to really figure out the differences. Haven't demoed a MC yet since they're hard to find in the PNW.

[The Hulk]

If u surf a Malibu without PNP then u don't deserve your boat! G lovers do nothing but Bragg about no PNP needed. Comparison is fair other than needing to put the 23lsv in the SAME video for ultimate comparison. 

It's a great nifty sexy marketing tool, why are we knocking bu for a video like this? It's genius on their part. Have dealers playing this at boat shows and the 99.9% of boat buyers NOT on TMC will easily be convinced.. frankly hard NOT to be after watching.. 

[TenTwentyOne]

3 hours ago, The Hulk said:

 

It's a great nifty sexy marketing tool, why are we knocking bu for a video like this? It's genius on their part. Have dealers playing this at boat shows and the 99.9% of boat buyers NOT on TMC will easily be convinced.. frankly hard NOT to be after watching.. 

 

Genius for the potential customers that haven’t surfed any of the boats in the test....... Or embarrasing to Bu in the minds of the customers that have experience surfing the other boats in the comparisons. I think more of the potential 99.9% would be more easily convinced if the vids didn’t make the other boats look like a joke in comparison. Most folks are going to see through that if they have much time surfing different boats.

the results are just a little bit too skewed IMO.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by TenTwentyOne

[bbattiste247]

I watched many of the videos following the 25 lsv comparison with the G23, and now I feel like I wasted my money buying a 25 lsv. All the Axis brand boats had very comparable waves to the 25 lsv.

[ConnollyCrew]

15 hours ago, IXFE said:

So I’ve been in Vegas all week for work. Today my dealer calls and says my new 25 LSV arrived!  Excited, I start poking around social media and come across THIS!!

Finally some objective data on surf waves (best I’ve seen anyway)...

EDIT: click the blue box and it will play

 

 

https://vimeo.com/channels/wavecomparison/page:1

[ahopkins22LSV]

So everyone is complaining that it’s “unfair” for the 24mxz or 25 LSV to be compared to the 23 because of the length difference... but I don’t see any complaining that the 22 mxz went up against the x23...

I thought they were very interesting videos. And honestly they represent the waves I’ve surfed. The G23 was is pretty good, but I feel the 24 and 25 both have superior waves. I’ve also surfed the X30 (not tested I know) and x23 walking away very underwhelmed by both waves. Malibu out of the box has the best and most consistent wave out there, in my experience. 

[eubanks]

Nautique roast!

[TallRedRider]

I am glad to see this.  I do think it was malibu funded and biased.    But seeing the G and 25 LSV side by side was impressive for sure.  I will show my wife this, and I am sure her forgiveness for getting another new boat will be forthcoming promptly.   

I couldn't help but see the bias when it said the G wave was a full foot shorter in height than the 25 wave.  That is not my experience.  I am most looking forward to the additional length of my 25, compared to my previous G.  In my test drives, the wave was shorter in height on the bu. 

Not bu hating here...my new Malibu is shrink wrapped at the factory just waiting to be shipped, just trying to be objective.  

[shawndoggy]

@IXFE for those of us who like malibu products and have been here for years, it can be a little disappointing to see marketing dept. vids being portrayed as "science."  That's not a knock on you personally at all.  Just an acknowledgement that all information should be analyzed critically.  

[UWSkier]

The majority of buyers of these boats are guys who should have a Bayliner but have more money than brains.  They're not the hardcore ilk who hang out on this site and actually care enough to educate themselves.  The video will sell boats.  It'll annoy the "purists," if that word can be applied to the surf crowd, but it'll sell boats.

[kayt425]

Is it that Malibu had to have their response to getting hammered by Centurion videos for burning crazy amounts of fuel?  It’s getting interesting in the fight for market share of wakesurf boats. 

In my eye Malibu is the best value, best looking boat available, but I’m not a huge fan of wedge technology overall because it is so inefficient.   So I go check out centurions out of curiosity and they proclaim “best efficient hull” and people can boat 2x longer than Malibu owners etc.

craziness.  Everyone is trying to sell their brand somehow.  I do find it interesting that Malibu hasn’t refuted the GPH videos circulating online showing them burn at 30++ GPH.  That’s insane.

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, kayt425 said:

Is it that Malibu had to have their response to getting hammered by Centurion videos for burning crazy amounts of fuel?  It’s getting interesting in the fight for market share of wakesurf boats. 

In my eye Malibu is the best value, best looking boat available, but I’m not a huge fan of wedge technology overall because it is so inefficient.   So I go check out centurions out of curiosity and they proclaim “best efficient hull” and people can boat 2x longer than Malibu owners etc.

craziness.  Everyone is trying to sell their brand somehow.  I do find it interesting that Malibu hasn’t refuted the GPH videos circulating online showing them burn at 30++ GPH.  That’s insane.

The wedge probably doesn’t help fuel efficiency....... but they definitely aren’t burning 2x the fuel, or anywhere near 30gph.

In real life it’s probably only a slight difference. 

[Suggy]

I think these videos were released at a perfect time for boat show season for when most people can't go out and demo boats side by side and back to back. It clearly states if PnP was available from the factory, they added the bags. I don't know about MC/Moomba/Supra if you can order PnP from the factory or not. I know in Nautique you cannot, and as everyone stated that's what they pride themselves on so fair comparison there. The "recommended" PnP bags are typically 550s and nothing huge. Not 750s or 1100s or anything insane. My dealer puts bags in every boat sold according the the recommended ones from Malibu/Axis. I agree that if your dealer doesn't include bags in a $70k+ boat, then there's something wrong.

Another HUGE point I think this proves is that Malibu is THE BEST OUT OF THE BOX/STOCK WAVE. Period. They used factory presets/settings in this "study." I think this can be one of the biggest take aways from the video. Can a G23 or Centurion or MC be better? Maybe, but not out of the box, not without playing and messing around with the settings for a whole summer before fine tuning it. NOT for 99% of the users that are buying these. 99% of user hit surf left/right and just go. They don't take a 50hrs to dial a wave in and empty one side 50lbs and fill the other 28lbs and add lead, etc. to make it .25" taller and 4" longer. Malibu's (with a good dealer) come stock with PnP bags and the settings are right there, hit load and you're done and have the BEST stock wave.

I hope this company/Malibu/whoever continues to do these videos and comparisons. I know we would all love to see Malibu go up against Centurion, and not just the Ri but even the Fi series. Again though, out of the box, factory presets, will a Centurion win? I am SHOCKED they didn't have the #1 selling inboard in any of the videos though, the 23LSV didn't make an appearance. Hope to see some more videos soon!

Cheers & summer can't come soon enough. thanks for the post @IXFE