Heater Y fitting Mod

[UWSkier]

28 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

perfectly understand now, return hose from heater to before raw water pump... this would make draining easier as well... then cap the old re-entry?

Your current re-entry is probably one of these Y-shaped fittings.  You need to take that out, splice the two hose ends together, then go cut your raw water intake and insert this Y into that line instead with the crotch of the Y pointing towards your raw water pump (and by that I mean the two input ends of the Y pointed at the through-hull and the single output pointed at the pump).  Nothing to cap off.  Just splice the two hose ends together.

Edited October 23, 2018 by UWSkier

[dlb]

4 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Your current re-entry is probably one of these Y-shaped fittings.  You need to take that out, splice the two hose ends together, then go cut your raw water intake and insert this Y into that line instead with the crotch of the Y pointing towards your raw water pump (and by that I mean the two input ends of the Y pointed at the through-hull and the single output pointed at the pump).  Nothing to cap off.  Just splice the two hose ends together.

That is it!  So simple and better yet, it works!

[LateNightSalami]

Well I managed to get the parts and finish the project yesterday. It isn't perfect. I will try to get a photo tonight. Since the hose coming from the heater core was on the other side of the engine compartment I had to add some hose and route it astern of the engine being careful not to let the hose rest on any parts of the exhaust manifolds that might get hot. This coupled with the fact that my bilge pump is basically right under my impeller housing (...I wonder if there is an easy way to move this) meant I couldn't get a good angle on the wye with how it is installed in the pictures above. It would basically kink the hose. So I had to install the Y valve in reverse so the the hose from the heater core could attach to it. Hopefully this won't inhibit flow too much. We'll see in the spring.

I thought about routing the hose under the engine to get a better angle but I was worried it would be rubbing against the rudder steering assembly and I didn't really want that. I suppose I could get some U shaped anchors and try to screw down the hose while routing it under the engine so it has an angle that better matches the water flow into the impeller housing but this seems like more work that I would want. We'll see when I break the boat out in the spring. Those fat hoses going into and out of the impeller housing are not very flexible.

[ahopkins22LSV]

The y pipe is in reverse? Like the opposite of all of the pictures posted in here? That would not work. You need to have it positioned as the pictures in this thread has shown because the water needs to "merge" into the raw water line between the raw water intake and raw water pump. If it is the opposite it will fight the flow of water from the intake to the pump and will probably be worse then without a y pipe.

Here are two quick diagrams.

CORRECT:

INCORRECT:

[LateNightSalami]

I can give it another go tonight and see if I can find a better angle to route the hose. It was getting late when I finished last night. Like I said above there is a lot of stuff to avoid and the hose exiting the heater core is on the wrong side of the engine compartment making this harder than I was hoping it would be.

 

Edit: Thanks for the feedback by the way. I knew at that angle that it would be fighting the flow to a degree but I was going back and forth in my head about how much it might affect the results. You guys are more experienced with this than I am so the feedback helps.

Edited October 24, 2018 by LateNightSalami

[justgary]

Sorry, I've lost the bubble on this thread. 

If you are looking for better heater circulation, why not use a small electric pump like the one shown in the threads about heater pumps, e.g.:

http://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/forums/topic/68866-cheapo-heater-aux-pump-first-use-report/

You can always put your ball valve inline to shut off circulation to the heater if you still need that.  It just seems like adding a pump that runs when the heater fan is on is simpler than adding the Y pipe.  Sorry if I'm a little late with this information....

[LateNightSalami]

3 minutes ago, justgary said:

You can always put your ball valve inline to shut off circulation to the heater if you still need that.  It just seems like adding a pump that runs when the heater fan is on is simpler than adding the Y pipe.  Sorry if I'm a little late with this information....

No you are fine. There are a few reasons to use the Y pipe:

1. Installing the pump requires extra wiring and the expertise and know how to do it (people would want to have it turn on when they hit the heater switch for instance).
2. When I looked at shower pumps, they ran upwards of $120.00. I imagine heater pumps would be similar. I don't know how much the Y pipe costs but I would pretty surprised to see it reach that expensive.
3. Lots of of the more modern Malibus come with the Y pipe there already just in the wrong location to be useful (this is the case with my boat). So a bit of re-plumbing should be all that is needed with a few cheap parts.

[Woodski]

The Y pipe actually can be installed either before (best) or after (but will not function well at idle) as long as it is oriented per @ahopkinsVTX diagram.  The physics is water flowing in the correct noted direction creates a suction or pull on the heater Y leg particularly with the small diameter orifice in the line.  Installed the opposite way will create a pressure side on the exit flow path or simply push cold water through the heater core.  Installed before the raw water pump will provide better idle performance as the potential for less back pressure when low flow rates are in effect.

@LateNightSalami:  You should be able to get the hoses and splicer fittings at a good auto parts store, 5/8" splicer is heater core, 1.25" diameter hose a little more challenging.  I have also found swimming pool fittings for things like the raw water strainer, etc.

[UWSkier]

I was hoping someone somewhere in this thread would say "venturi effect."

[Woodski]

@UWSkier:  Giovanni Venturi and Bernoulli would be proud you brought that up.    Gold Star for you!

[CedarLakeSkier]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:19 PM, LateNightSalami said:

Have you ever had any reason to close the valve to shut off the flow from the heater core?

Well,  Probably not a good reason.

When it gets warm enough that I know I won't need the heat I shut it off.  Keeps water from flowing to the heater.  In the quick connect fitting on the input side of the heater I placed on of those garden hose washers with a screen built in so all the "gunk" in the fresh water won't end up in my heater.    Stopping the water flow keeps that strainer from getting clogged with junk from the water.  When it gets cold I turn it back on.

Also, makes it super easy to winterize.   I shut off the water supply to the heater, disconnect, and use a inner tube inflation pump to blow air through the heater to force out the water.   Next step, hold the tube up to an pour in some anti-freeze, then blow that through with the pump.    I'll repeat that one or two times until I'm sure the anti-freeze has gone through the system and blown out.

Lastly, I really just have it there for safety.  I figure if my heater core springs a leak I have no worries.  Just shut off the water flow and I'm good to go... fix the heater later.

[LateNightSalami]

Ok, so I was over thinking the re-routing of the hose. After I flipped the Y pipe to the correct orientation I rotated it so the little part of the Y faced the engine. I ran the heater hose underneath another better anchored hose to hold it down and it just barely reached the Y. It has a good 2 inches of clearance from touching anything like the engine or the rudder steering assembly so it should be good. I'll upload so pictures tomorrow though it isn't much to look at compared to @CedarLakeSkier's setup. Hopefully it gets the job done. We'll see in the spring.

[ahopkins22LSV]

If it’s installed as my diagram shows, you will love it. I had it on my response and it was the best mod I did. Going to be putting it on our vtx as well. Personally I feel it’s easier to install than a circulation pump as there is no wiring but to each his own. 

[granddaddy55]

Where is the return from heater connected to before it gets put on a Y to improve suction on it

how does that old connection get closed before return is relocated to Y?

Ive only noticed the “to” heater hose on top of manifold  

Edited October 25, 2018 by granddaddy55

[ahopkins22LSV]

6 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

Where is the return from heater connected to before it gets put on a Y to improve suction on it

how does that old connection get closed before return is relocated to Y?

Ive only noticed the “to” heater hose on top of manifold  

Typically it returns to the side of the engine water pump just below where the to hose is. You have just get a plug to thread back into the hole. I forget the size. 

[LateNightSalami]

8 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

Where is the return from heater connected to before it gets put on a Y to improve suction on it

how does that old connection get closed before return is relocated to Y?

Ive only noticed the “to” heater hose on top of manifold  

To piggy back on @ahopkinsVTX if you can't find it on the side of the engine water pump you might already have a Y installed but in the wrong place. I think Malibu started using the Y pipes some time ago but placing them in line exiting the raw water pump. That is where I found mine. It took me longer than I care to admit to find the return from my heater core because I was expecting it to the engine and didn't think I would already have a Y installed somewhere in the system.

[granddaddy55]

Thanks guys, must be a freeze style drain plug? Same size ?

Can’t wait to get in boat and see.  

I will look fir a Y installed 

 

means you need a non Y part you referred to from auto parts , use same clamps there removing Y and patching with part, then cut raw intake, insert Y crotch away from pump, attach return, plug hole secure with two large clamps and then in picture I saw two small clamps on return hose? That I didn’t get.

The intake is a bad a** hose, short hand hack saw with a one of those skinny blades ?  To cut intake ?

i guess accessing from port locker divider removed or from top down transom like impeller changes ?

seems tight to use a saw, possibly using serrated style knife?

sorry fir questions but wife digs heater , I need to fix the idle issue so she won’t cut season, Sunday she didn’t even get in 78-79+ degree water cause it was 70 degrees.  Dash said air 82 ( not), water 76 ( more like 78+). 

The last two years since February 2017, we’ve only missed this January, but she’s worn out and may start nixing the cooler days

we have made a Xmas surf the last two years , last year I went in my vest, shorts, and rash guard but when someone’s getting in boat and getting dry you have that no heat situation , this will improve it a lot and I plan on not cutting motor off , though we had lots of sun for heat last year

[LateNightSalami]

13 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

means you need a non Y part you referred to from auto parts , use same clamps there removing Y and patching with part, then cut raw intake, insert Y crotch away from pump, attach return

Yeah, you will need 1 or 1.25 inch coupler to replace where the current Y location is (assuming you already have a Y installed)

14 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

plug hole secure with two large clamps and then in picture I saw two small clamps on return hose? That I didn’t get.

Not sure which hole you are referring to here. If your heater core return hose is to the side of the engine you will need to plug that. If is to a Y that is already installed there shouldn't be another hole to plug. The setup in the picture above is a crop and zoom of a pretty fancy setup posted on the first page of this thread. The guy installed a handle bar valve and quick release clamps to be able to winterize it more easily or shut it off if needed. His setup goes as follows: return hose-->quick release side 1-->quick release side 2-->more hose-->handle bar valve clamped to small hose segment-->hose segment clamped to Y pipe.

24 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

The intake is a bad a** hose, short hand hack saw with a one of those skinny blades ?  To cut intake ?

I wouldn't do a hack saw since I think that would mar up the hose pretty badly. I used a razor blade/boxcutter while using the hose clamp as a guide. You loosen the hose clamp that anchors the hose to the raw water intake. Pull the hose off, slide the hose clamp to position on the hose that you plan to cut and tighten it there enough so it won't slide around. Then you can use it as a guide for the razor to make control easier. This will give you a clean(er?) cut to the end of the hose. That hose does have metal reinforcement wound through the middle so you might have to nip a few slinky looking wires at the end with some wire cutter. Here is a youtube video for the technique, relevant part starts around 2 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZY23frqUA

30 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

i guess accessing from port locker divider removed or from top down transom like impeller changes ?

Yeah, it is tight and uncomfortable. I lay on my side a lot with my feet sticking under the rear seats...also my back gets sore the following day.

32 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

sorry fir questions but wife digs heater , I need to fix the idle issue so she won’t cut season, Sunday she didn’t even get in 78-79+ degree water cause it was 70 degrees.  Dash said air 82 ( not), water 76 ( more like 78+). 

The last two years since February 2017, we’ve only missed this January, but she’s worn out and may start nixing the cooler days

we have made a Xmas surf the last two years , last year I went in my vest, shorts, and rash guard but when someone’s getting in boat and getting dry you have that no heat situation , this will improve it a lot and I plan on not cutting motor off , though we had lots of sun for heat last year

Happy to help someone extend their season!

[granddaddy55]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZY23frqUA

great vid, thanks,  good for ballast lines as well, I will use it cause i have struggled with this task in boat and have feared cutting myself in the struggle 

Andrew at bakes said the plug is a 5/8npt if no previous Y installed and as above he said get your patch piece and plug from Napa 

I was thinking @LateNightSalami That maybe I don’t have to disconnect the hose and simply slide clamp to cut point or same with clamp from water pump end and cut and slide clamp back to position and tighten

Or is it that since it lays in bottom of bilge you have to disconnect hose to position hose to be cut ?

why not disconnect it from pump end instead of pulling tranny cover and working there? 

[Malibeez]

will check out those videos for reference. 

[granddaddy55]

On 10/25/2018 at 4:32 AM, ahopkinsVTX said:

Typically it returns to the side of the engine water pump just below where the to hose is. You have just get a plug to thread back into the hole. I forget the size. 

So I finally traced and it returns to circulation pump housing between the two ends of J hose?

i think that’s it as it travels with the “to heater” line into bilge from port side to under floor of starboard locker to go to helm I assume?

[LateNightSalami]

14 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

So I finally traced and it returns to circulation pump housing between the two ends of J hose?

i think that’s it as it travels with the “to heater” line into bilge from port side to under floor of starboard locker to go to helm I assume?

You can check by disconnecting each end and either using your "Big Bad Wolfesque" lung capacity and/or an air compressor to send air through the "to hose" and seeing if water comes out the other end. If so, then congratulations you found each end of the circuit! It does take a decent amount of lung power, also the hose tastes kind of sweet from previous propelyene glycol winterizings.

My hoses actually had slightly faded white lettering on them indicating they were 5/8'' heater hose or something to that effect.

 

Hope that helps.

 

[granddaddy55]

6 hours ago, LateNightSalami said:

You can check by disconnecting each end and either using your "Big Bad Wolfesque" lung capacity and/or an air compressor to send air through the "to hose" and seeing if water comes out the other end. If so, then congratulations you found each end of the circuit! It does take a decent amount of lung power, also the hose tastes kind of sweet from previous propelyene glycol winterizings.

My hoses actually had slightly faded white lettering on them indicating they were 5/8'' heater hose or something to that effect.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Have you used yours since you fixed the Y direction, how did it work st idle ?

[LateNightSalami]

9 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

Have you used yours since you fixed the Y direction, how did it work st idle ?

I haven't had a chance no. I made the modification during my winterization process. Looking forward to using it in April though when we put the boat back in for the season.

[granddaddy55]

Ordered mine but on back order at Bakes , Hoping to get mine installed this month coming snd use it in December !  Went thanksgiving weekend , definetly needed some performance at idle   

Im 57 and been in New Orleans since 1972, until the middle of this week we’ve been having a true Fall cooler season (usually Fall is 2 weeks maybe in December and Jsnuary is winter or extended fall) for the first time in 46 years 

last two years we haven’t even gotten that bath water we get in August cause rainy cloudy days during summer though water is always warm and usually warm thru November not complaining cause I still went no wetsuit last weekend , it was like up north mid spring, water was 63-65 air  was 69