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DaleHardy

What's normal speed, rpm, power 02 23 LSV?

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DaleHardy

I just bought a new-to-me 2002 Wakesetter LSV 23. Monsoon 325. 350 hours. Had it serviced private party, replaced plugs but he said the dist cap and wires looked relatively new. Plugs weren't bad but were gapped too wide, I just had him replace the plugs. Motor starts and runs very smooth. It came with an ACME prop 14.5 X 14.25. (1235) Top speed 37 mph at 4750 RPM with light load.  It seemed sluggish at low end and struggled to get on plane with ballast and 5 people wakeboarding. It has a vibration between 1200 and 1400 rpm that shudders dash/ windshield area. Mechanic recommended I get a new prop. Called OJ and they recommended 15 X 14 (951). Top speed 35 @ 4290 rpm with no load. Sent it back, they sent a 15 X 13 (950). Top speed 35.5 @ 4650 no load. With 7 people and gear, no ballast 32 @ 4450. With ballast (8-900lbs aft 300 bow)it struggled to get on plane with a wakeboarder. (The props didn't fix the vibration. I replaced the rudder which was bent, steers much better but no change to vibration. Anyway this post is about speed/ rpm/ prop size)

Before I call OJ back, I was wondering if I could get input on what is normal re power, speed, rpm . Is this normal for this boat and motor? Seems a little underpowered. (Mechanic checked computer and said it has the latest upgrade) 

Edited by DaleHardy

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minnmarker
5 minutes ago, DaleHardy said:

Seems a little underpowered.

Your data sounds pretty normal for that hull and engine and prop.  The 14.5 x 14 is probably your best bet, maybe go down on pitch to a 1615.  Vibration my be harmonic if there are no other symptoms apparent in the engine.  Maybe the plug change will give you a few more rpm.  You may have to choose between max speed and surf performance.

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formulaben
2 hours ago, DaleHardy said:

I just bought a new-to-me 2002 Wakesetter LSV 23. Monsoon 325. 350 hours. Had it serviced private party, replaced plugs but he said the dist cap and wires looked relatively new. Plugs weren't bad but were gapped too wide, I just had him replace the plugs. Motor starts and runs very smooth. It came with an ACME prop 14.5 X 14.25. (1235) Top speed 37 mph at 4750 RPM with light load.  It seemed sluggish at low end and struggled to get on plane with ballast and 5 people wakeboarding. It has a vibration between 1200 and 1400 rpm that shudders dash/ windshield area. Mechanic recommended I get a new prop. Called OJ and they recommended 15 X 14 (951). Top speed 35 @ 4290 rpm with no load. Sent it back, they sent a 15 X 13 (950). Top speed 35.5 @ 4650 no load. With 7 people and gear, no ballast 32 @ 4450. With ballast (8-900lbs aft 300 bow)it struggled to get on plane with a wakeboarder. (The props didn't fix the vibration. I replaced the rudder which was bent, steers much better but no change to vibration. Anyway this post is about speed/ rpm/ prop size)

Before I call OJ back, I was wondering if I could get input on what is normal re power, speed, rpm . Is this normal for this boat and motor? Seems a little underpowered. (Mechanic checked computer and said it has the latest upgrade) 

Cupping plays a big part in this, so without cup numbers this is just a guess, but I don't understand why you're not hitting the RPM limiter with the last prop and no load.  Something is wrong.  I'm at 3000 feet of altitude and using the 1235 with .050 cup I hit 38 and kiss the 5000 RPM rev limiter (not that I make a habit of running like that.)  Although you went up 1/2" in diameter, with the lower pitch you should be turning higher RPMs unless you've got a lot of cup on that prop.  As far as acceleration, compared to a direct drive these feel slow...packing a lot more weight around but I feel you are putting the cart in front of the horse with this vibration.  I'd fix that first before worrying about your numbers, as this may be part of the problem.  What is your altitude and temp when you did your runs?

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DaleHardy
3 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Your data sounds pretty normal for that hull and engine and prop.  The 14.5 x 14 is probably your best bet, maybe go down on pitch to a 1615.  Vibration my be harmonic if there are no other symptoms apparent in the engine.  Maybe the plug change will give you a few more rpm.  You may have to choose between max speed and surf performance.

Thanks. The plug change was done before all the various trials, that didn't make a difference.

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DaleHardy
18 minutes ago, formulaben said:

Cupping plays a big part in this, so without cup numbers this is just a guess, but I don't understand why you're not hitting the RPM limiter with the last prop and no load.  Something is wrong.  I'm at 3000 feet of altitude and using the 1235 with .050 cup I hit 38 and kiss the 5000 RPM rev limiter (not that I make a habit of running like that.)  Although you went up 1/2" in diameter, with the lower pitch you should be turning higher RPMs unless you've got a lot of cup on that prop.  As far as acceleration, compared to a direct drive these feel slow...packing a lot more weight around but I feel you are putting the cart in front of the horse with this vibration.  I'd fix that first before worrying about your numbers, as this may be part of the problem.  What is your altitude and temp when you did your runs?

Thanks! I don't know the cup numbers. These OJ props must be new. I don't see 950 or 951 listed on their website. I found that the ACME 1235 is 0.105.

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formulaben

It's not a hard rule, but the ACME engineer told me .050 cup equals roughly an inch in pitch, so it makes a big difference.  If the cup on the last prop isn't high, then I wonder you're not hitting your rev limiter unless you're at high elevation.

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DaleHardy
2 minutes ago, formulaben said:

It's not a hard rule, but the ACME engineer told me .050 cup equals roughly an inch in pitch, so it makes a big difference.  If the cup on the last prop isn't high, then I wonder you're not hitting your rev limiter unless you're at high elevation.

Oh yeah, at 800 ft elevation and air temps were mid 80's. The vibration is limited to about 1250 to 1350 rpms. It's quite noticeable if you stat in that range, like at fast off-plane speed, but if you power through it you don't really notice it. I suppose the next thing for that would be into the shop to have alignment checked. The cutlas bearing seems tight like I was told it should be. The shaft squeeks some when you turn the prop by hand and there is no noticeable play in it.

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MadMan
43 minutes ago, DaleHardy said:

Oh yeah, at 800 ft elevation and air temps were mid 80's. The vibration is limited to about 1250 to 1350 rpms. It's quite noticeable if you stat in that range, like at fast off-plane speed, but if you power through it you don't really notice it. I suppose the next thing for that would be into the shop to have alignment checked. The cutlas bearing seems tight like I was told it should be. The shaft squeeks some when you turn the prop by hand and there is no noticeable play in it.

This sounds like the rudder oscillating.  You could try turning slightly, to put a load on the rudder and see if it goes away.

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DaleHardy
48 minutes ago, MadMan said:

This sounds like the rudder oscillating.  You could try turning slightly, to put a load on the rudder and see if it goes away.

Thanks. I'll try that. I changed out the rudder and rudder box this weekend. It turns WAY easier but no change to vibration. My son sitting on the back bench said he couldn't really feel it meanwhile the helm was shaking like crazy. But like I said, only if I keep it in that rpm range.

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minnmarker
3 hours ago, DaleHardy said:

meanwhile the helm was shaking like crazy.

By helm do you mean the wheel or the whole instrument panel and the wheel?

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DaleHardy

Yes, the whole thing. Really seems like the whole boat, but my son in back seat said he couldn't feel it very much. The mid section of the boat, around windshield and dashes definitely feels it.  It seems like it could be harmonic like someone suggested above because it's confined in that rpm zone and builds and decreases as you slowly go through it. However I don't like it and it definitely keeps me from cruising at that speed in no wake zones etc.

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minnmarker
2 hours ago, DaleHardy said:

 it could be harmonic like someone suggested above because it's confined in that rpm zone and builds and decreases as you slowly go through it. However I don't like it

Try applying some tape weights (like wheel weights or even heavier if you can find them) to the under side of the instrument panel and observers compartment roof - or wherever seems to be shaking the most.  Easy to remove and, if it is a harmonic issue, it might reduce or solve the issue.  https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tape+weights&sprefix=tape+wei%2Caps%2C184&crid=3GQOEC2IB9Y2U

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DaleHardy
10 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Try applying some tape weights (like wheel weights or even heavier if you can find them) to the under side of the instrument panel and observers compartment roof - or wherever seems to be shaking the most.  Easy to remove and, if it is a harmonic issue, it might reduce or solve the issue.  https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tape+weights&sprefix=tape+wei%2Caps%2C184&crid=3GQOEC2IB9Y2U

Fascinating. Have you seen this work in boats before or was an idea that just came to mind?

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minnmarker
1 hour ago, DaleHardy said:

Fascinating. Have you seen this work in boats before or was an idea that just came to mind?

Just knowledge of harmonics.  I have done it with wheeled vehicles successfully but never a boat. Can't hurt to try and cheap :)

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DaleHardy

Problem figured out. Took it to dealership while I was on vacation. Though I thought the motor sounded great, they didn't. At least two cylinders not contributing. Fuel injectors. Three were not operating correctly, sent to another shop that had ability to clean them. Two of three eventually passed. One didn't. Indmar shows the injector on their computer PN 556049, $400 but says they don't actually have it anymore. They referred me to Injectorwarehouse.com part # MP3022, $35. Dealer said the one still not passing was spraying but may leak fuel into cylinder after engine is shut off, leading to fowled plug and fuel smell at start up. New injectors will be in next week. I used it over the weekend and the performance was amazing! Much more power, higher rpms and speed. Finally ran like I thought it should. However, by the end of the day I could tell it was losing performance again. I suspect the plug is fouling. They put the bad injector in cylinder 2. Which is cylinder 2? Should I go ahead and replace them all with $35 injectors or just the one?

 

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