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2016 25LSV starting issue


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I have the 450 Raptor and on occasion (about 1 out 5 starts) the boat won't start on the first attempt. This usually happens after the motor is warm.

I stop the cranking and then try again and then it will start, sometimes I have to do this a second time for it to start.

I took the boat to two different Malibu dealers and they said there are no diagnostics reported and the boat started under multiple attempts in their shop.

I was thinking this spring I'll put a fuel pressure gauge and see if it's a fuel pump issue when it doesn't start.

Not sure if it's more likely some sort of sensor issue but would think that would throw an error.

If anyone one has thoughts or recommendation that would be great.

Thanks, Gerard

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Has the starter/solenoid ever been wet. Once the engine got hot and the solenoid got heat soaked it would intermittently not start. Let it cool off and then it would start until it wouldn’t anymore. I finally narrowed it down to the starter, pulled it and took to a local rebuild place. They confirmed that was the problem and replaced the solenoid, the starter looked fine. Not an issue since. Not sure about the Raptor, but on a Indmar 350 it is about the easiest thing on the engine to access. 

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WDR thank you for the response.

I'm not aware of taking water on that would make the starter/solenoid wet.  I'll keep that in mind to consider as I start this in the spring.

Thanks,

Gerard

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I think it is related to it being a 2016. I had a 2016 23 LSV and mine did the same thing, but at least 4 out of 5 starts it would not start on the first try. I took it to my dealer and they said they changed something, but it still didn't fix it. I ended up getting a 2017 23 LSV and it starts right away every time.

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I have this happen randomly, I've had it not start multiple times in one day and then run it all weekend and never have it happen, I 1st thought it was related to voltage drop on 1 of my batteries so kept switching between them and it happens on both separate and together, I have over 225hrs now and it seems to be doing it less often but still happens every once in a while.  My dealer has no answers either, as long as it starts eventually I'm trying to look past it.

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On 12/24/2017 at 4:18 PM, wdr said:

Has the starter/solenoid ever been wet. Once the engine got hot and the solenoid got heat soaked it would intermittently not start. Let it cool off and then it would start until it wouldn’t anymore. I finally narrowed it down to the starter, pulled it and took to a local rebuild place. They confirmed that was the problem and replaced the solenoid, the starter looked fine. Not an issue since. Not sure about the Raptor, but on a Indmar 350 it is about the easiest thing on the engine to access. 

@wdr - I think he is saying it cranks, but doesn't fire.  @gerard - Can you confirm that is the case?  Does it sputter or just sound like it is cranking without spark or fuel?  Do you power up the boat and immediately try to crank or do you let it power up first?

Just a guess, but I'd be looking at fuel pressure first, assuming it cranks every time with plenty of spin.

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Hello Jeff,

Yes it does crank and doesn't fire.  On the second sometimes on a third try it will start without issue.  It starts normal meaning there is no smell of excess full or missing of any sort.

I usually don't power the screen off just turn the boat off and occasionally the no start happens.  I tried powering the computer down (turned the power completely off) and let the system reboot and didn't fix things.

It sounds like it's spinning normal.

Thanks for the response.

Edited by gerard
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On 12/24/2017 at 8:34 PM, bbattiste247 said:

I think it is related to it being a 2016. I had a 2016 23 LSV and mine did the same thing, but at least 4 out of 5 starts it would not start on the first try. I took it to my dealer and they said they changed something, but it still didn't fix it. I ended up getting a 2017 23 LSV and it starts right away every time.

That’s a pretty bold claim to make off of little to no evidence. The engines are the same between 2016 and 17 too. 

@gerard are your batteries both good? Are you drawing a lot of power at these starts up attempts with your stereo? I had an issue on our 13 TXi were it would crank for a really long time then fire. It would happen typically when the engine was warm. Last spring I put new plugs and a new battery in and it hasn’t done it sense. Unfortunately I don’t know if the plugs or the battery fixed it. We had about 550 hours on the boat when I replaced the plugs. I’d suspect your plugs are fine unless you run a ton of hours and I’d test the batteries/get them on a charger and see if the issue remains. 

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I have about 170 hours.  I usually don't have much more then the stereo on and with that I don't play it excessively loud.

I tested the batteries and they register OK.  When it does fire it starts as it should with a clean sounding start.

Appreciate the input. 

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I have the same issue with my 2016 23 LSV.  No one can seem to figure it out and I'm getting tired of the scowl on my wife's face when the really expensive boat won't start.  It sure would be nice if someone could figure this out...

Dave

 

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usually after the non-start I Wait 15-30 seconds and it starts right up strong!  I started counting in the middle of last season, over 120 starts I had 13 non-starts, 1 twice in a row non-start, one 3 times in a row non-start.     

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Our 2016 410 did the same thing. The service manager told me to tighten everything to the battery to the motor all connections.  I checked and tightened everything i could find.  At the same time my right screen went crazy and had to get fixed. Ever since that it hasn't happened again. But I only had it out a few times after that until the season was over.  I did notice it seemed like it was really hot out when it would happen.  Service manager said my faulty screen could have been the problem.  Guess we will find out this summer.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, McMiller said:

My screen was replaced at the end of 2016, it did it before and after, that didn't change anything.

Thats not what I want to hear.

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My 2016 23lsv does exactly the same thing, randomly.  Dealer has no answer yet.  Sounds like it has just not quite enough throttle to catch.  Has done it since day one.

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On 12/24/2017 at 1:05 PM, gerard said:

I have the 450 Raptor and on occasion (about 1 out 5 starts) the boat won't start on the first attempt. This usually happens after the motor is warm.

I stop the cranking and then try again and then it will start, sometimes I have to do this a second time for it to start.

I took the boat to two different Malibu dealers and they said there are no diagnostics reported and the boat started under multiple attempts in their shop.

I was thinking this spring I'll put a fuel pressure gauge and see if it's a fuel pump issue when it doesn't start.

Not sure if it's more likely some sort of sensor issue but would think that would throw an error.

If anyone one has thoughts or recommendation that would be great.

Thanks, Gerard

I have the same boat and problem. Tried charging batteries on a charger, new batteries, swapping cables, switch positions etc with no change.  Dealer has it but I don’t have high hopes on a resolution over the winter.

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27 minutes ago, KJKimball said:

There is an ECM software (calibration) update available from Indmar that corrects this issue.  Have your dealer request the updated CAL from Indmar and install it.  5 minute fix.  This update has been available since late 2016.

Unfortunately technicians tend to overthink an issue and don't look for the simple stuff...

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1 hour ago, KJKimball said:

There is an ECM software (calibration) update available from Indmar that corrects this issue.  Have your dealer request the updated CAL from Indmar and install it.  5 minute fix.  This update has been available since late 2016.

Thank you, Thank You, Thank you!

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19 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Must be a Ford thing :lol:

But anyway in continuing to actually try to help... @The Hulk have you had this issue with your 2016? When I broke it in for you ;) I don’t recall having any issue like this. 

A few times it turned and turned and never fired but was always after a few days of no use.. not on water thus far.. I turned switch off then back in and then it fired right up.. I need my small screen replaced again as it acts goofy a few times and thought it might be that? 

Edited by The Hulk
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17 hours ago, KJKimball said:

There is an ECM software (calibration) update available from Indmar that corrects this issue.  Have your dealer request the updated CAL from Indmar and install it.  5 minute fix.  This update has been available since late 2016.

 

There you go, sounds like the ECM isn't sending the signal for fuel or spark. Would be interesting to read a fuel pressure gauge when it cranks and doesn't start. 

Had a similar situation on a 2013 MB, 5.7L Indmar recently. Customer stated every once and awhile, it won't go above about 3,000 RPM's. Restart the boat and everything is fine. Indmar referred to it as false misfire. New ECM Calibration and good to go.

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6 hours ago, skurfer said:

 

There you go, sounds like the ECM isn't sending the signal for fuel or spark. Would be interesting to read a fuel pressure gauge when it cranks and doesn't start. 

Had a similar situation on a 2013 MB, 5.7L Indmar recently. Customer stated every once and awhile, it won't go above about 3,000 RPM's. Restart the boat and everything is fine. Indmar referred to it as false misfire. New ECM Calibration and good to go.

Engines with a distributor like a 5.7L have the ignition timing mechanically coupled to the engine which is why it is possible for such engines to start with the first spark event sometimes the instant the key is turned if everything is just right.  Engines today without a mechanically driven distributor, rely on a crank trigger pickup so the ECM can know where the crank, pistons, valves, etc are in the combustion cycle before sending signals to the spark plugs to fire.  Typically, the ECM needs a couple full revolutions of the crank to define rotational crankshaft position which is why engines today turn over a few times before they fire up.  A trigger wheel on the crank has an identifying spot on it that passes by a sensor that then tells the ECM where the crank is in the rotation.  Once the ECM knows where the engine is in timing, it then sends the signal for the start sequence.  All this happens in milliseconds so it seems seamless to the operator.  

It's like when you see something out of the corner of your eye at night and you wait to see if you see it again before moving on.  You see it again, process it and go on with the next step or if you don't see it, you either don't move or go to plan B.  If the ECM doesn't get a clear look at the crank position, it doesn't move on to the next step which is the start sequence.  

Edited by KJKimball
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