Wakemakers Piggyback system - Opinion?

[chris4x4gill2]

I'm considering the piggyback system for my 06 23LSV. The kit Wakemakers advertises has the 910 LBS bags. For a surf setup, how much weight would I need to add to the bow? I have a DIY suckgate as well.

How long does it take the piggyback bags to fill and drain with the stock pumps? are they up to the task?

[dealjb]

8 minutes ago, chris4x4gill2 said:

I'm considering the piggyback system for my 06 23LSV. The kit Wakemakers advertises has the 910 LBS bags. For a surf setup, how much weight would I need to add to the bow? I have a DIY suckgate as well.

How long does it take the piggyback bags to fill and drain with the stock pumps? are they up to the task?

Very painful drain times from what I hear and see with a buddy of mine.  I have the 910's in mine with a reversible pump for each bag.  I use the thru hole in the bilge area for the water intake for both of the pumps ( I Y off of the thru hull to each pump).  With both pumps running at the same time sharing the thru hull my fill/drain times are about 12 minutes and they drain pancake flat.  You will fight the bags with plug and play to get them to drain.

[kerpluxal]

so... many considerations for you take here..

If the WakeMakers system is the same one I purchased... forget about it... The fill times are painfully slow due to bottom tank airlocking while filling.

If you are getting a good deal and want the convience of "Piggy Back"... go for it and modifiy it:

1. purchase a wye fitting
2. place wye between hard tank and fill pump
3. run wye to hard tank and to bottom of bag
4. run vent from hard tank to bottom of bag
   1. bag should have two ports on bottom
5. run vent hose that was on hard tank to top of bag.

Additional considerations

Pre 2011 the fill pumps are 800 gph. The nice thing is that the pirhanna 1100s have a .75 inlet. This will allow you to easily upgrade your fill to 1100s but you will have to:

1. buy a 1.125 wye
2. buy 1.125 hose
3. From ace, buy a 1.125 to .75 elbow (.75 side threaded, 1.125 side barbed)
4. buy 1100 pirhana pumps
5. Change the elbow in the hard tank to the 1.125 barbed fitting and attach your piggy back as above.

If you want speed.. Plumb it seperately.

My fill times are not that for me (I wake board and surf, and fill to different levels)

Drain time would be much better if I upgraded to 1100 drains as well. But for me drain times are not that important.

BTW I run 1100 bags in mine.

[chris4x4gill2]

I like the convenience factor of the piggyback. Rerouting the venting doesn't sound like a big deal if it improves fill / drain time. I figured I would have to upgrade the pumps afterwards, but was hoping to get the rest of the summer with the stock pumps if I go this route. I guess I would also need one over the side pump for an additional bow bag from what I am reading.

[kerpluxal]

18 minutes ago, chris4x4gill2 said:

I like the convenience factor of the piggyback. Rerouting the venting doesn't sound like a big deal if it improves fill / drain time. I figured I would have to upgrade the pumps afterwards, but was hoping to get the rest of the summer with the stock pumps if I go this route. I guess I would also need one over the side pump for an additional bow bag from what I am reading.

This is how I set mine up:

On 7/21/2016 at 9:16 AM, gobble said:

Guys, I played around a little bit with drawing pictures that attempt to fix the air lock problem. One diagram Y's an extra fill line and another Y's an extra vent line. Which do you think will work better?

[csparks13]

I ordered the piggy back for my 05 LSV a couple weeks ago. Wakemakers said it's back ordered intil the end of the month. Now I wondering if I should go a different route. What's the largest sac I can put in the rear lockers? 

[Fffrank]

I put 1100s in my 2004.  They seem to fill almost all the way up.  I bought the quick connects from Wakemakers but all the other adapters and hoses at the local hardware store.

[chris4x4gill2]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:35 AM, Fffrank said:

I put 1100s in my 2004.  They seem to fill almost all the way up.  I bought the quick connects from Wakemakers but all the other adapters and hoses at the local hardware store.

How are your fill and drain times? did you install like the piggyback system or are you using separate pumps?

[Fffrank]

19 minutes ago, chris4x4gill2 said:

How are your fill and drain times? did you install like the piggyback system or are you using separate pumps?

SLOW.

I removed the hard tanks and replaced with bags.  The 2004 MLS system has fill and drain pumps for each bag.

[Tclark]

On 6/2/2017 at 3:42 PM, kerpluxal said:

This is how I set mine up:

How's this work for you? Fill/ empty quicker

[kerpluxal]

3 hours ago, Tclark said:

How's this work for you? Fill/ empty quicker

The setup allows the fill process to be quicker only due to the fact that I am no longer waiting on the fill of the bottom tank. When filling from the top of the bag and relying on gravity to drain into the lower tank that is not vented.. well it airlocks and have to wait for it the air to burp up into bag. If you are piggy backing you are essentially having to pump ~168 gallons of water on each side (#250 under floor #1100 bag on top). The only way you are going to increase your fill times is either move more water with a bigger pump or plumb them separately. I have swapped my 800gph fill pumps to 1100 gph fill pumps. The only thing that I can attest to is that in the time it takes to fill my center ballast tank (~62 gallons with an 800gph fill pump) I have filled my rears with ~200 gallons (~100 gallons on each side).

I was not worried about drain times so... it is slow... I have not timed the drain nor the fill. I am filling on my way to the area I ride, or I am draining on my way back.

Edited June 22, 2017 by kerpluxal

[dealjb]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:46 AM, csparks13 said:

I ordered the piggy back for my 05 LSV a couple weeks ago. Wakemakers said it's back ordered intil the end of the month. Now I wondering if I should go a different route. What's the largest sac I can put in the rear lockers? 

Wakemakers makes a custom #910 for your boat.  Bag will fill completely and completely fills locker.

Buy the engine divider braces from them also.

[AJwakedevil]

23 hours ago, dealjb said:

Wakemakers makes a custom #910 for your boat.  Bag will fill completely and completely fills locker.

Buy the engine divider braces from them also.

+1 for engine bay dividers

[goodmatt78]

How flat does the top bag get with the gravity drain as sketched?

[statefan]

After a lot of online research and going back and forth on what I wanted, I put the WM piggyback system with 910 lb bags in my 2011 LSV this off season and installed per the provided WM instructions. I timed from empty to completely full for the factory tanks and bags and it was right at 14 minutes. Draining is a little faster than that in my experience. For me, this amount if time is acceptable for the money invested in the system. I looked into the "super" piggy back install from the link below and would consider doing this if the current system proves to be too slow. I will say that I was having more water left in my bags than I wanted after draining and WM helped me narrow it down to the rear drain line not laying as flat as it should due to the drain pump covers at the back of the lockers. I ended up cutting a section out of each side of the raised panels and laying the drain hose under the cover to hold it flat as shown in the pics below. I've found that draining works better now....especially when you allow the pumps to run as you take off and the front end comes up. Long story, short....I was worried about drain/fill times and how well the system would work based on feedback I've read online but personally was pleasantly surprised. Again, 14 minutes isn't a big deal to me since I can fill/drain while cruising to our riding spots but I realize everyone's situation is different. I know having dedicated reversible pumps would be much more efficient but the added cost associated just wasn't worth it to me at this time. 

https://www.wakemakers.com/resources/malibu-super-piggy-back-factory-upgrade-kit-ballast/

[goodmatt78]

Good info.....Which aerator pumps are you using now?  Any idea how long your mid tank takes to fill?  I have never timed it, but seems to take quite a while.

Does your current system use 4 ports on each bag?

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by goodmatt78

[statefan]

I'm using all factory 800 gph piranha pumps. I haven't timed the center tank specifically but I know my front and center tanks are filled long before the rear factory & piggy back bags are.

[statefan]

I'll also add to the discussion that in my experience at least, my hard tanks and bags fill simultaneously. The hard tanks hold much less water so they end up filling way before the bags but the bags definitely start taking water while the hard tanks are filling. I asked WM customer service about this and they claimed that's how the system should operate. I just wanted to share as I know that's a widely debated topic with these systems. 

[goodmatt78]

When the this system drains....how much water is left in each bag?

[statefan]

Very little water remains in the bags once the pumps finish as long as your drain lines are as flat to floor as possible. Remember you're relying on gravity to drain the water from the bags to your hard tanks where it's then pumped out of the boat. Short of putting in a reversible pump, you'll never get the bags 100% empty from pumping since the aerators don't "suck" water out. I can't tell you exactly how much was left in there but they are visually empty after pumping but if you feel them there is some residual water in the bags. It's been a couple weeks since I tested my system and it's been too cold to ride so after numerous cruising trips around the lake without using the ballast tanks, the bags have little to no water in them at this point. It's my understanding that the factory hard tanks will usually hold a little bit of water as well but the tanks are hidden so you never know it's there.

I also saw I missed a question your post from yesterday....yes, my bags have 4 ports and they are all used with the recommended WM install instructions. I used this YouTube video as a go by for my install as well and it was pretty much spot on....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wKf40w7z2I

Hope this helps

[goodmatt78]

Yeah, that's the video I referenced.  They don't make that system for my bags (older 750 Fly Highs with 3/4 ports), so I used the video to draw it up and piece the parts together my-self.  I think I will have $150 in it and if I do 2 reversible pumps, I am at $700.  I am pretty torn at this point.

Last question...do you have  the check valve on the vent line?  I don't understand the need if you run the lines up high....also, won't they drain faster if air is let in?

 

[statefan]

This is a quote from the WM customer service rep who was helping me diagnose my draining issue.

“The added check valves in the fill line and vent hose help create suction from the hard tanks, but you will always have some water remaining.“

If I was in your situation I would just move forward with the cheaper piggy back install and if it proves to be too slow or you don’t like how it operates, throw some reversible pumps in there as you’ll already have everything else you need. 

[goodmatt78]

28 minutes ago, statefan said:

This is a quote from the WM customer service rep who was helping me diagnose my draining issue.

“The added check valves in the fill line and vent hose help create suction from the hard tanks, but you will always have some water remaining.“

If I was in your situation I would just move forward with the cheaper piggy back install and if it proves to be too slow or you don’t like how it operates, throw some reversible pumps in there as you’ll already have everything else you need. 

Agreed!  Thanks.

[MLA]

You do not want to put check valves in the vent lines of a hard tank system. It will cause the tanks to tin-can.

Check valves in the fill lines only prevent passive draining through the fill line.

[goodmatt78]

Yeah....that's what I was thinking....I will just run the lines high or add a loop.